Reminds me of the trans woman that took her top off at the White House under Biden and MAGA lost their minds.
They don’t recognize her gender as a woman so those should just be man boobs and not a big deal, but they lost their fucking shit.
Meanwhile the shirtless trans dude in the background was practically invisible.
Maybe it wasn’t all that and simply the fact of a trans woman taking her top off that had people unsettled lol. Male or female pretty sure the vast majority of people would be uncomfortable with that
Maybe the vast majority of prude Jesus Americans. In more advanced societies and cities it’s a different story.
For instance, it’s perfectly legal for females to walk around topless in Vancouver BC. Seattle and Vancouver both have public beaches where clothing is optional. The only people that care are religious weirdos.
“female presenting nipples”
Reminds me of the creator of the show Hannibal talking about American censorship. He created a gruesome murder scene where the victim is covered in gore and there’s ritualistic shit everywhere. The only complaint, “we can see the dead woman’s nipple!!”
Death and gore all good, but lord forbid you show a lady nipple.
If I remember correctly, it was that someone was horrifically flayed, with their ribcage wrenched open to resemble wings. This was all fine, but you could see their ass, so they had to cover the asscrack with blood. For the children, presumably.
This is crazy. If the show is meant to be watched by adults, what does it matter that nudity is shown?
Morally nothing, but legally broadcast law and ERSB ratings are very strict. Like, ‘literally count the number of each cuss’ strict. Ratings aren’t determined by Dennis and Marjorie vibing it out, it’s concluded almost algorithmically based on literal, unambiguous features. Context has very little relevance to the ratings questionnaire.
Even if it is in the spirit of the ratings law, only the letter of the law is enforcable, regardless of context.
It’s probably a good thing for the arts overall, since ratings are so very impactful for reception/profit, I can’t imagine the lawsuits being flung if a studio accused Dennis or Marjorie of bias.
I propose this situation be remedied by ‘free the nipple’ protests involving both man boobs and woman boobs.
The Germans simply let women take their top off if they want. Seems fair enough.
The Germans have something that they call FKK, and it means “Free Body Culture”.
They have a much more sane mentality towards nudity.
Alternatively, appease the puritans and give both a sports bra
like when some church dudes demanded that the hulk is wearing a bra, because his massive packs would arouse kids xD
… generally good for both in an athletic context.
Maybe have both boob’d men and women do the same ‘strip routine’ at the protest, both arriving in the sports bras.
mature modern games are unapologetic and give you a genital selection too
the question is, are you a penis a or penis b type???
I get the modded mega dong.
tbh baldurs gate and cyberpunk really lacked a proper donger slider
would even be lore accurate with cybernetic dick enhancements in cyberpunk and magic in dnd
Sorry. That’s on me.
I was the one responsible for implementing the donger slider in Cyberpunk but I kept getting distracted with all the donger slider field research.
Honestly a real-life donger slider is worth the investment.
True. I invested in my left hand early on and it has really paid off.
Donger slider field research, you say?
Fantasy games should have that one extra ring slot.
underrated comment
Cyberpunk had some great mods, though. It’s just too bad they didn’t show up in the sex scenes.
You need to reevaluate where you get your mods. There’s plenty of mods specifically changing the sex scenes, expanding them, and allowing ridiculous things to happen within them.
There are ads in game and a quest dedicated to the Mr Studd penis implant so it’d be canon too
yeah and why can’t we buy exploding dick enhancements (or dick cannons) like that one dude we gotta give a ride to
I mean there’s that one guy who said it felt like his dick was stuck in a goddamn pencil sharpener
Yeah, but his implant was broken.
never buy a used mr studd
I feel like there are cybernetic dick enhancements in cyberpunk but they’re not widespread or used a lot. Like they usually are peddled by sketchy folks and don’t seem to be something advertised that much.
I mean, good chance I’m wrong on that but that was kind of the vibe I got playing the game.
Dong slider is a hilarious thought. I don’t know enough about coding and game development but it feels like it might be hard to get the animations right if you had a slider vs selection because you’d have to be figuring out animations for those titties or cock on the fly.
But maybe that’s just me showing my lack of knowledge, perhaps a slider from tiny titties to big ol tatas is already a thing in some games. I guess it’s also dependent on the game engine.
We know there are. There’s a quest in CP2077 involving a guy who’s system catches fire.
He’s voiced by a streamer my wife likes. She had no idea he was in the game and loved the absurdity of that quest.
Oh yeah I know they exist I just figured they’re more like underground and poorly regulated was what I was getting at.
That is a funny mission. CP2077 genuinely has some excellent writing.
just gotta wait till they do a FATAL CRPG…
The werewolf in Skyrim got physics enabled flaccid dong because I wanted to helicopter in VR and thought it only changed humanoid NPC and player character, not monsters. It was a super funny surprise seeing that giant salami flopping around in the scripted scene for whatever quest that was. Good job, dev.
And despite all of that maturity, they still do male-gaze, heteronormative centric design.
In BG3, Type A halflings (male presenting) are all dumpy and kinda goofy-looking. Type B halflings are all banging smokeshows. Give me the dumpy looking halflings, man.
In Cyberpunk, the camera lingers on nude women, but hides or ignores male nudity, even if the player character is fem presenting and chooses a male partner.
There’s a YouTube video about this, but I can’t find it. I’ll update later if I do (and remember)
Bitching that sex sells is kinda just objectively stupid.
Doubly so when you cherry pick male centric entertainment and ignore female centric entertainment that does NOTHING but the female gaze.
Different groups of people flock to different entertainment and all of them for all of human history has sold themselves to their audience.
Video games objectively do get played more by men. And more men buy certain types of games over others on top of that
Don’t blame the companies on that one. Blame your fellow consumers.
There are games out there that do sell towards the male attracted audience. Hell I frequently hear straight women and gay men both say that the new god of war games are basically nothing but sex selling to them. For example.
Video games are marketed to men cause video games historically were marketed to boys… because toy stores were strictly gendered in the 80s, so they made the choice least likely to impact sales (girls can play with boy toys, but boys can’t play with girl ones)
Like, dude, preferences among genders are usually societally conditioned rather than distillations of some essential gender shit. Video games in the united states are majority played by women, if you’re not counting strictly console gaming.
Of course, they do the male gaze. The majority of the male audience loves it and the majority of the female audience doesn’t care enough to prevent a sale.
It’s a no-brainer to implement male gaze if your target audience includes males. It’s easy to do and yields a lot of goodwill from that part of the audience. Some gacha games make tons of money just doing the male gaze and literally slopping everything else. It’s absurd how well sex sells.basically the entire anime and vtuber “cultures” have been nothing but horny bait for years now. What really gets me is how it pretends not to be
They sort-of have to pretend to be just funny because otherwise they get banned for bible belt reasons. They are easy to avoid, so I don’t care about them existing. It’s not the content I need uBlock Origin or SponsorBlock for to get it out of my face.
eh, sounds like an accidental noting burger.
these games are taking inclusion steps. but that doesn’t mean they need to stop catering for the majority. its still art made by humans and their own preferences find a way in
Catering to the majority is a little wild of a statement. There are a lot of games I’d be embarrassed to play in public because they cater too hard to the lonely, horny dude demographic.
Its fine to put that stuff in but devs should be making it optional so people can play shit in public spaces.
Lmao reminds me the stat where Larian said that the absolute majority played HUMAN WARRIOR :D
The majority of people are normal boring standard ass people.
The entire reason the queer community is called queer is because explicitly they are different from that over whelming mass of people.
You gotta have a base line to have differences after all. Someone has to be the boring ass NPC!
And there ain’t nothing wrong with that. Some people are vanilla as fuck others are fabulous as fuck. Some are both!
The usage of the virtual camera in cyberpunk described above is textbook male gaze. Male gaze is specifically about how people aim cameras (in this case virtual cameras) with the assumption that the audience is primarily composed of cisgender, heterosexual men. It seems like you are making this same assumption here when you say “catering for the majority,” especially considering data shows a roughly 50/50 split: https://www.statista.com/statistics/326420/console-gamers-gender/
EDIT: I switched to a global link. The URL says console gamers. The graph title says any device.
Any device
That’s too broad to be meaningful,since it ignores mobile vs console vs PC preference
You sound like a man.
but that doesn’t mean they need to stop catering for the majority.
Yeah, it’s the immediate assumption that the male gaze is the majority.
Women make up half of the gaming community.
In most studies most women and most men prefer looking at female nudity.
The “male gaze” is objectively just an unfortunate condition of how we’re wired. We all like looking at conventionally attractive women. Even straight women. So that will always be the default in any game with artists selected at random from the general artistic population.
Not how we’re wired, how patriarchy views both forms. Seriously, you can’t just put up a study that confirms an assumption of patriarchy without acknowledging that it is, on some level, circular logic.
Patriarchy is the dominant worldview, patriarchy says that beauty is a feminine trait, most people agree that women are more beautiful than men. All that proves is that most people accept the patriarchal definition of beauty.
If you conducted this same study in ancient Greece, would you expect the same result? If no, then cultural views of beauty play a big role in this. If yes, then why were the ancient Greeks obsessed with male nudity?
If you conducted this same study in ancient Greece, would you expect the same result? If no, then cultural views of beauty play a big role in this. If yes, then why were the ancient Greeks obsessed with male nudity?
Why wouldn’t you? I’m not an expert but from skimming through a brief search they seem to adhere more or less to the same standards we do. Yeah, there’s more dudes but that can be explained by the fact that they’re sculpting heroes from mythology which are mostly men and they want to show off how buff they are. It’s like comic books of today, but unrestrained by censorship. The female statues are just as conventionally hot/naked.
Not how we’re wired, how patriarchy views both forms. Seriously, you can’t just put up a study that confirms an assumption of patriarchy without acknowledging that it is, on some level, circular logic.
This is a wonderful idea, it’s not a falsifiable theory though. This makes assumptions that Patriarchy in its current form is so deeply ingrained it affects every study on nudity preferences done at the subconscious level. So the only way your idea could ever be proven is if we, in a vacuum, develop cloned humans and developed a specific matriarchal society for them that we some how teach them without any possible contamination, and then repeat tests like these and see if there’s a difference.
Patriarchy is the dominant worldview, patriarchy says that beauty is a feminine trait, most people agree that women are more beautiful than men. All that proves is that most people accept the patriarchal definition of beauty.
Or alternatively, Patriarchy developed from common human traits in majority, which resulted in a preference for the female form in regards to beauty (it didn’t), which associated beauty as a feminine trait (it didn’t), and thus it’s not the tail that wags the dog, but indeed the opposite.
If you conducted this same study in ancient Greece, would you expect the same result? If no, then cultural views of beauty play a big role in this. If yes, then why were the ancient Greeks obsessed with male nudity?
Yes, actually. And more specifically it would benefit your argument if that study was done – since Ancient Greece was a heavily patriarchal society regardless of which period you pick and which society you want to pick within Ancient Greece. Arguably it was a more patriarchal society than today; with the fact women were not seen as sexual partners (Athens, Sparta, etc), just spouses meant to produce children.
We’d also have to broach the fact that outside a few renaissance artists imitating an ignorant variance of ancient Greece, there was not an obsession with male nudity over female nudity. They were just more open with both compared to later western societies that built themselves with Greece as a template.
Actually yes the ancient greeks did preference the female form as more beautiful than the male form. Their mythology and gods and goddesses make that very clear.
Hell to depict a man as an aspect of beauty would have been blasphemous as that would be an insult to Aphrodite. Unless said man was blessed by the goddess and had her favor. Men were for all intents and purposes subservient to women for the purposes of beauty.
Most Greek statues also depict leaders and mythological folk heros. Which were men, but women are always equally treated with respect in art of that nature. Greeks just generally respected the human form in general.
You couldn’t have picked a literal worse example to try to prove your point. And it really makes you sound like you are just a misandrist and don’t want to straight say it out right.
Let’s face it, women are straight up beautiful. Like, outside of a sexual or “treating like an object” point of view, they do hold inherent beauty that men only seem to compare in Greek statues.
Men are also beautiful and there’s a lot of male Greek statues.
Women gamers tho tend to clump up in very different genre perfences then men. So there is a lot of fucking nuance to that.
The majority of the biggest block buster games tend to be very dominated by games that land in the male dominated spaces.
Also men and women both almost always prefer female nudity over male even among straight women. Its a very common fun fact about sex marketing in media.
Been that way basically forever. Well before modern times even.
ok
Bulverism
Wheres my cybernetic lady horse cock? Immersion ruined.
check your mouth. that’s where i keep mine.
I pick the micropenis because I’m short and proud of it.
flaming crotch man cool
The dong physics have gotten pretty good
no character creator has yet to top saints row 2. they just have a “body” slider on top of all the normal “slim/fat”, “short/tall”, “lanky/muscular” stuff that morphs where the body fat goes. if the booblies get too big your character gets a bra.
Have you seen the Street Fighte4 6 avatar creator? That might change your mind given how many eldritch abominations walk in the multiplayer hub.
yeah, it’s definitely more insane. but i think sr2 is the best in terms of representation.
Ha! That’s awesome I love it
Man, I’d PAY for a modern remake of SR2 that kept it basically as is but added better gfx/QoL stuff. That game was the peak of the series imo
You say peak of the series but it still lacks the massive purple dildo from later games
And the later games don’t have the septic truck mini game, so we are at an impasse…
Obvious we need to cover up boy nipples
I think you meant boy n*****s. Let’s not be NSFW here.
This is exactly the type of shit you’d expect to see at some fascist memes group. You can leave it there.
jesse what the fuck are you talking about
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm there you go
It’s not the idea of sarcasm I’m picking on, moron, it’s the digusting fucking pun of it.
Pun?
My character in Cyberpunk 2077 has medium boobs and a massive dong. Haven’t seen that thing much since the character creation step but I appreciate the freedom. My character also may have only worn a fairly slim kevlar vest at one point.
Still pissed clothing in that game shrinks your boobs down to medium if they’re large unless you use mods.
Modelling clothing onto underlying body geometry is such an enormous pain, I’m not really surprised they take some liberties. Most games don’t do it they just have the clothing be part of the mesh and not have any actual body underneath, even in games with character customisation.
In GTA you can’t take clothing items off, you can swap models but you can’t actually take off clothing. It’s the same reason why characters never get into bed and just lie on top of it, it’s easy not to try and model the cloth dynamics.
This made me think about how you don’t usually see characters handing things to each other in a single, fluid scene; usually doing the hand-off off camera. But the new 007 game does on screen hand offs a lot and you can see the wonkiness of of the fingers and how the thing being passed just teleports from one hand to another as the tbing is pinned from one model to the other. lol
Yeah game development is very weird like that. Want to render a vast photorealistic city at the multiple kilometre scale, yeah that’s easy we’ve known how to do that for decades. Want to have a character to pick something up, nah, obfuscate that shit, it’s too hard.
The other really difficult thing to model is liquids flowing into cups. You never see that done.
Sure would be nice if liquid physics could run well in real time to be used in pretty games.
I’m still pissed that they added 3rd person for vehicles, but not for the rest of the game.
My guy put on the diving suit and for some reason the one thing that clipped through was his big ol’ bingus.
I honestly don’t understand why they don’t just label them “masculine” or “feminine”, and they can just add “androgynous” if they want a non-binary option. Is there an element of this that is offensive that I’m missing?
For a lot of people the sex is way more important than the way it is presented. I’m attracted to feminine women and masculine women but I am not attracted to men of any kind. And you can present as androgenous, but if you have lady parts I’m still hot for it.
This is not relevant to a character option naming scheme, though
Here’s the thing… Yes it is. Its explicitly the entire point it’s a problem.
If you think otherwise then you fundamentally don’t understand the problem that’s happening.
Your basically ignoring the forest for the tree.
As an unabashed straight dude this is weird.
Wow you’re like fully unflinchingly sex attracted. It’s kind of magical to observe.
Wait… That’s not like, actually rare or anything, is it?
Its not, it’s the most dominant form of attraction.
Your just in Lemmy where like 70% of the user base is lgbtq, furry or a shut in that has little to no real world experience outside of their bubble or the queer community.
Its wild how frequently I see people claim to be amazed at what is frequently the most common cold ass takes on topics.
The younger generation of the queer community has an almost overwhelming fixation with sexuality and gender identity well beyond what is normal.
Its actually a fun case if you ever have a chance to talk to a few different elders in the community who grew up though the 60s-80s.
Its not a new topic in the community by any means but it has caused a wild echo chamber effect over the last 15 years thanks to social media, a larger community connection, and increased representation and freedom.
To be attracted to someone just based on hidden sexual characteristics? I’m not knocking it, but I won’t pretend I understand it either
Eh. It’s less that’s the only factor, and more that the range from girly to butch has little impact on if someone is attractive. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
But if they have a hidden dick they somehow know? I stand by it’s weird.
I could show them many girls that are gorgeous but they’re ladyboys. Based on their logic they would be attracted and the penis shouldn’t matter but then they say sex matters so how do they know that person has a hidden dick?
I mean, if someone is attractive, then they are attractive? I don’t just want to bang every attractive girl out there!
Maybe it’s different for people who go for flings, but I like to be friends with someone before anything goes to the bedroom - specifically friends enough that bedroom chat and what we’re both looking for isn’t an awkward topic.
If it turns out they have a dick, then I’ve still got a good friend? IDK.
People who are never not upset are upset when designers don’t title body types as masculine or feminine and instead use a single character like “A” or “B”.
Like from a design standpoint if you have plans to introduce more body types then lettering them makes a lot of sense but I imagine that’s also one of the first things to get cut from a budget because it multiplies the amount of QA that’s going to happen.
Okay, that makes sense. I just didn’t know if it was that way to be sensitive of trans people or something.
There are insane people that think michelle obama is trans. I think its more the anti-trans people are prone to just make insane assumptions and assertions.
Lots of games have little unfinished bits. Like look at Metal Gear Solid 5: full ass AAA style game and the entire ending of the game is just missing. I think the obvious explanation is somebody intended to have more body types and just never got around to it or it got deprioritized hard by the budgeting folks.
There’s always someone offended somewhere.
I am offended that nobody is offended.
No I’m not
Yes I am
Etc.
So what? The main problem today is that people are offended by anything. Its ridiculous.
The problem is not the words, it’s the people.
I wouldn’t say that’s the main problem lol, like look around
:). Yes many problems.
Username
I can see why game developers stay out of it though. Regardless of what their personal opinions on matter may be is it really worth dealing with a bunch of angry incels, especially if it’s a big studio they don’t want that kind of nonsense so they don’t do it.
The funny part is the a/b is them actually explicitly jumping straight into it
Staying out of it would be to have ignored the problem ENTIRELY and kept using the standard method that had been used for decades in gaming and centuries in writing.
Doing nothing and ignoring a problem is taking no stance beyond saying you won’t participate.
Changing in anyway is taking a stance. That’s how that works lol
Yeah if it’s just some job where you turn the handle to put out Derivative Manshoot with Nominal Twist 2 + monetization then I can understand not feeling like putting any of your soul into it because wtf is your game even saying? Like from an artistic perspective.
Oh wait, scrolling up, I guess this is more about RPGs. Which idk, I feel like you can get away with anything in a RPG character creator.
I think a lot of game developers just don’t want to deal with the drama that will inevitably happen if they give more than two options.
I don’t think it’s offensive by any means, but I think it would be better as a society to get away from labeling things as masculine and feminine in a way that refers back to a traditional gender binary and assumptions. The A/B system serves that, though it fumbles when your character’s pronouns are also determined by this choice.
Personally I think they ought to make two base bodies (small and large) and then add boobs as a toggle for both. And none of this business with separate hair and face options either.
Just call it what it is.
Testosterone based body fat distribution and estrogen based body fat distribution.
Then no one can be angry! After all that’s basically what your picking the standardized body shape caused by fat distribution primarily dictated by the primary sex hormone in the body.
No one can get upset if you just label everything clinically. At least not with out being a dipshit about it.
Also free the god damn nip. ):<
How about treants
Give the Type-A a chest binder. Now everyone is covered.
I feellike I’ve seen this in some game. Not a binder, but that both types have covered tops and bottoms.
Dark Souls games maybe?
Monster hunter does that
Free the nip!
As I recall, Fallout does this with the tanktop/shorts combo.
Star Wars: KOTOR does this. I think KOTOR 2 as well but I’m fuzzier on that
I feellike I’ve seen this in some game. Not a binder, but that both types have covered tops and bottoms.
Baldur’s Gate maybe?
Baldurs Gate has covered nothing
Ah you’re right. I was thinking more along the lines of which character creation doesn’t put any limits depending on gender.
If femality is stored in the nipples, where are the nipples stored. Maybe the balls I hypothesize.
Where does the dick get stored?
kinda wish it just folded up inside like a dog
Naw sheaths are still to inconvenient. What we need is genital slits like a lizard.
Safe and tucked inside! Completely invisible till required!
Or a woodpecker’s tongue.
Tap for spoiler
Reminds me of The Left Hand of Darkness.
Why have one set of genitals when you can have all of them and switch which are used periodically?
I don’t get why they aren’t just making a single body with tons of sliders for all proportions and some “man” and “woman” presets which are just values for those sliders. If it was just one body, all the clothing and animations would only need to be done for one body instead of two.
What am I missing?Vaguely, because having 2 or 4 models that are static and always look good is actually a lot easier to design and test than a body that can be lots of sizes and shapes. Like, it’s more work to make an outfit 4 times than 1 time, but it’s also kinda easy work. Whereas making an outfit that can be any size and shape and still looks right and natural and doesn’t clip through itself, etc is harder.
But not impossible, so I agree if your game is going to have sliders anyway, and those sliders are going to allow extreme adjustments and not just “length of torso, circumference of boobs”, probably you’re going to have to take a lot of that into account anyway.
Even still, though, having a “bunch” of sliders can sometimes still not be enough to get from one body type to another. Like, the fact that you can’t start with the male body in most of these games and adjust your way to the female one, or vice versa, means there are properties that would need to be made adjustable that currently aren’t, in order to actually get you smoothly from one to the other.
Presets easy, representing all possibilities with sliders hard
And not just representing them, but making it user-friendly. Women and men have “proportions” in the mind’s eye, and the base models fit those proportions, and then you make the boobs or the dong larger.
Just make your games first person view only, no third person view. You can be who/what ever you imagine yourself to be. You can be male/female/androgynous or a magic unicorn with rainbow farts and chewing cotton candy cud with the blood of the vanquished dripping from your horn. And it’s all in your head.
No when I’m playing a first person game and I can’t look down at my tits I get angry.
To be perfectly honest while it’s neat in the rare case when a game attempts to model the body properly in first person.
And in being blunt here. Its a stupid fucking choice.
It makes animations hard as hell to do that don’t cause more motion sickness if not impossible. It makes many actions physically impossible to do in a playable manner. And basically breaks every trick in the book to make things look real.
Remember even in 3d games there’s a LOT of optical illusions and trickiery that has to happen to make things look right.
There’s some bullshit you can pull to give characters a proper body in third person, but it comes with a lot of restrictions that just arnt worth it in most cases.
In quite a lot of games if you look down you can only see your own legs, which of course is totally unrealistic.
Now that sounds maga to me…
Make Armadillos Gay Again
I’m here for it! Gay Armadillos in the Sun!
That sounds like “just make your games totally unplayable for some people” (which also includes me.) Technically I can play some first person games but because there are so many that would give me motion sickness so in general I just avoid them
you get to be the ultimate lifeform: the bean
Can confirm. It took me a while to figure out my character was Someone™ in Portal
Feel like I’d also have a problem if I tried to go in public without a top due to having boobs (HRT <3) and I think most people would agree I’m not female.
Everyone should be able to go topless if they wish. Boobs are not inherently sexual.
I saw a boob once as a child and I still go to therapy three times a month.
To be clear though, it has nothing to do with me seeing that boob, that would be ridiculous. If society thinks people need to be protected from boobs, it’s society that needs therapy.
While I agree, there is a connotation in many western countries to consider. Were women to be topless, they would be perceived as a thrill seeker, mentally ill, hippy, or something else in that vein because of religious customs dictating that arousal of your self, or even others is sinful. Changing perceptions would be a generational effort and, at least in the US, things are swinging more conservative rather than less.
But, in some parts of Europe, toplessness is accepted on both sides of the aisle, so the world isn’t wholly broken. Asia has smatterings of the same. I support egalitarianism in all things, and it’s deeply frustrating that the human body is, mostly, stigmatized through crystalized, cancerous religious repression
Were women to be topless, they would be perceived as a thrill seeker, mentally ill, hippy, or something else in that vein because of religious customs dictating that arousal of your self, or even others is sinful.
This is more of an argument to go topless than anything else.
FREE THE TITTIES!
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Only when society ascribes sexuality to things that are inherently not sexual.
Boobs are not inherently sexual.
If by “society” you’re referring to my erection, then yes, it’s society that ascribes sexuality to boobs.
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Being topless is not sexual violence.
In abstract? Absolutely. All I’m going to say to this is to choose where you expend the effort wisely and spread the idea safely.
The only states in the US that have statewide bans on female toplessness is Indiana, Tennessee, and Utah. The majority of states in the US explicitly allow femme people to go topless because masculine people are allowed to go topless.
How about we stop warning women about existing as women and push against people who would perceive women as “a thrill seeker, mentally ill, hippy, or something else in that vein” for judging them.
I recommend heading to Utah to spread your ideas. Half of the US lives in deep, dangerous repression. Direct your misplaced aggression at them, not me
What? I live in the US. I’m speaking from my lived experience here. I agreed that Utah is one of the states that outlaws it.
I can’t have a conversation with you without being accused of being aggressive?
I’ve gotten my tits out in front of a cop in a red state in fhe US. Yeah people think things and it does correlate with counterculture, but fucking hell sometimes it’s too hot for a shirt
Physical needs>>>>social decorum. Always. I just wish it didn’t even need to be qualified that way.
Ok but other days it’s just pretty hot and a breeze against my tits would be nice, and sometimes I’ve indulged that desire. In the same place. It’s legal so why not. And yeah mostly people are doing that at left wing summer festivals, but that’s ok, it worked to normalize it within those groups.
It’s a spectrum even on an individual level
That’s what I’m saying. It’s silly that customs disincentivize an entirely harmless act. That an asterisk exists- can exist, means there has been a fundamental failure somewhere.
While you are correct that the US is more conservative, we do have nude beaches.
thrill seeker, mentally ill, hippy, or something else
You call men like that “perverts” or “sex pests”. Women can be those things too.
I mean, I guess? But going topless really shouldn’t qualify for that. Everyone can be gross. I’m disputing what it is that should be perceived that way. Nudity should be more broadly acceptable.
We need to flip the script and make men’s nipples inherently sexual. They don’t even dispense milk (this is a lie but most people don’t know that) they’re just an erogenous zone.
I think men should cover their chests too.
I’d rather give people the choice than to police their bodies.
I agree with the first. I think evolution would disagree with the second. The main purpose for partial display (aka cleavage) is enticement for attracting potential mates.
The main purpose of mammary glands is feeding offspring.
Boobs can be sexual, but they are not inherently so.
I dived in a bit, and I will concede that sexual use is not the main reason, since they evolved from primates and previous species in order to produce milk. But all other species don’t have them constantly enlarged. Studies show that there are many factors at play, such as providing more area of touch for the human infant and perhaps a more constant source of food since human infants take longer to mature. But they did develop the use for sexual signalling too when we became upright, if for nothing else than for showing sexual maturity. The human brain has probably evolved along with those changes to select which characteristics evolved more pronounced.
So they have multiple uses. The very fact that they are a subconscious trigger for the male has to mean something.
So they have multiple uses. The very fact that they are a subconscious trigger for the male has to mean something.
Yep, they can be sexual but are not inherently sexual.
It’s not just men that are turned on by boobs.
Boobs are secondary sexual organs.
They are not sexual.
Ones biology the other is kinky! Know the difference it could save a life. Or a tiddy if you find a lump.
You’re absolutely right. For good reason, they’re wonderful.
The same works with some nice hairy man pecs cleavage, what’s your point?
There was a protest in front of the Scottish supreme court when the UK had a ruling that declared trans women were men because of their “biological sex”. So a bunch of trans women stood with their tits out and arms painted red since apparently they’re men and that’s OK
Ironically almost all media coverage of the event censored their breasts
You don’t have to pay someone to translate A and B.
:P
Yes you do! Russian and Chinese has entered the chat!
À B
