Both. Both is true.
Yes, specifically: The billionaires class hired Trump to do this. They may have gotten more than they bargained for, or they may not care since it’s not yet affecting most of them.
Some of them are actively working with Trump towards a future where prison labor in their factories fuels their wealth in perpetuity. It is as simple as incarceration of millions of slave laborers and becoming a government contractor.
Footage of private prison executives celebrating the Trump reelection leaked when it happened. Some immigration camps are already creating labor.
It’s wild because these supposed geniuses have clearly not thought about who the fuck is going to buy all the shit produced by prison labor when EVERYONE IS PRISON LABOR! They’re addicted to making money and will happily squeeze all the money out of everyone till we’re all dead. It’s like if you have a cow and take all the milk and leave nothing for the calves; someday you’ll be left with nothing.
It’s completely possible for only the wealthy elite to prosper even if everyone else dives into extreme poverty. That’s the way it worked for thousands of years.
Or they may be even affected positively based on what industry they own, since they can jack prices higher than needed during a time of crisis.
Yes, of course it’s both, but I think people are upset with the statement because Democrats (with a few exceptions) traditionally bend over backwards trying to ignore the fact that the billionaire class is a HUGE part of the problem.
Yeah, but Trump will go away, and the billionaires will still be there. Probably having other politicians do something for them.
Two things can be true
Somehow this is the most ignored fact ever known, for internet people. No, you just simply cannot acknowledge two compatible facts. One is worthless garbage (your fact) while the other is profound wisdom (my fact). For example, here, somehow Donald Trump being a billionaire with the largest amount of power on earth is lost on this person, basically because it helps them burn the Democrats. Really kind of an idiotic response if you ask me. A billionaire acting the most like a billionaire is the “wrong” culprit here. And they think they’re such a big brain for this.
One of those things is just a subset of a much larger group, but both are only products of a systemic failure that democrats refuse to acknowledge - which makes them seem inauthentic to most people experiencing the problem.
Libs will pretend that this is not a problem.
Libs
Kinda says it all.
If it looks and walks like a duck, it’s a duck.
Personally I think putting people into boxes based on almost nothing is toxic but maybe that’s just me being a sHiTlIb
I havent put anyone into a box, i just labled the box and put it on the shelf. It’s not my problem if people decide to climb into it themselves.
Unless you’re upset with my associating liberals with the tendency to ignore the systemic problems of capitalist democracy in favor of directing anger toward just the ‘bad’ capitalists? I think that’s pretty self evident but I’d be happy to argue the merits.
The boxes shouldn’t exist, unless they were to define people as they relate to specific issues. I have been raged at for being a “liberal” because users assume I subscribe to many views which I definitely do not. They even go as far to tell me I’m wrong about what I believe because “you’re a liberal!!” Which I’m not, insofar as how they mean it. And that’s the problem.
To continue the analogy. You say you’re putting boxes on the shelf and people climb into them. I’d compare it more to people looking at the box labels and then you’re shoving them into the boxes just for that. It’s all oversimplified and kills conversations and progress. The fact that I strongly want an end to many social problems which could be addressed by universal healthcare and regulating capitalism means nothing to most of these label-oriented users. The only people who aren’t evil capitalist pigs are those who fit their same label. It’s actually sick, disgusting, and counterproductive. It’s exactly what you’d want if you’re a billionaire. People who want mostly the same things hating and icing each other out.
Yep sure is
“This person”
Literally a progressive who co-chaired Bernie’s 2020 run and has consistently fought for progressive policies.
I think she deserves to speak the truth to power.
Also, literally a Democrat.
Okay. Even heroes can be testy know it alls at times.
I got a good one for you
Me: Trump won because people didn’t vote for Kamala. She got 10 million less votes than Biden.
Tankies: No it’s because she ran a bad campaign. It’s not because of the voters at all.
Exactly. As if those are competing ideas. For those to be competing ideas, voters have no agency. Which they do not hesitate to imply if it makes them feel correct.
I’m gonna be honest: voters are dumb, and that’s the biggest reason why they don’t have agency. Forget voter ID and banning mail-ins, the biggest form of voter suppression is propaganda. Billionaires invest tons of money into making sure voters stay dumb. Politicians actually have a ton of control over voters, because they’re so easy to manipulate. So the tankies do have a point.
HOWEVER, if voters weren’t so dumb, they’d have agency! And the tankies who didn’t vote because they’re scared of lesser evilism? Well yeah, there’s your voter suppression through propaganda. The dumb voting is coming from inside the house.
Ew, I didn’t order any boots. Try Jack’s table instead.
This isn’t 2 things; Trump is a part of the billionaire class. They’re just not being specific enough, mostly because many of them work for the billionaire class.
One of those things is more true than the other.
They’re both completely true, minus turner’s bs about lessons, so no.
It’s not “billionaire class”. It’s owning class.
It ain’t that they have a lot of money, it’s how they came to acquire that money as an effect of the system of ownership we currently live under incentivising rampant exploitative practices as the most efficient methods of personal enrichment.
Billionaires are just the best at being exploitative; they aren’t the only ones though.
Most billionaires get their money by exploiting loopholes in the government. For example, they pay no taxes, yet the government will still prosecute people who kill them.
yet the government will still prosecute people who kill them.
They actually spend money to keep anyone from even trying.
The owning class are the ones who control and dictate our government structure. Of course they are going to create avenues for advancement of their interests. The system was built by them, for them.
It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!
Upton Sinclair, 1934
Jesus fuck. It can literally be both, especially with this fatted calf.
Also in terms of affordability of daily good and gas, it literally, majority because of Trump, the billionaire grifter, and his tariffs and his stupid thinking he’s Jesus and started a War with Iran and the Republicans refusing to rein him in and the Democrats voting with them.
Hey there’s lots of things you can say about Trump without going right to body-shaming.
I’d prefer “Gold-plated calf”. It demonstrates both his worthless shell and the chunk of lead underneath. Nothing of value there. Just something dense and toxic.
Not to mention the biblical reference to him and his base.
What neo-liberals and their apologizing masses don’t understand is we don’t see a difference anymore. They’re both conservative parties that only care about their payout ultimately. Advancing billionaire objectives and ignoring us. I really wish they’d understand and stop trying to fucking argue against this.
You think taxing the rich, removing money from politics, and giving everyone food and healthcare is conservative?
Those are progressive ideals, not neo-liberal ones, and neo-liberals are currently the ones controlling the Democratic party unfortunately.
That’s not to say that neo-liberals and conservatives/the MAGA party are the same, or that the Democratic party and the Republican party are the same, but it’s important to recognize that neo-liberals explicitly do not want to tax the rich, remove money from politics, or give everyone food.
Those are literally the DNC written platform. It’s on their website in downloadable PDF form. It’s how they have always voted.
What do you mean that’s how they’ve always voted?
jfc
So as it turns out the entire congressional record including every bill introduced, voted on, passed in either chamber, and signed into law is publicly available.
Although I could mention about 56 years ago they voted differently, so not “always”.
So if you’ve looked at that record, you’d see where Democrats have recently voted against taxing the rich, against food assistance, and against keeping dark money out of politics, and you’d see the absurdity of a sweeping claim like “that’s how they’ve always voted”.
Also you realize there are more Democratic politicians than the ones who serve in Congress, right?
Link it
you haven’t been paying attention.
The “both sides are same duh” idiots still can’t connect these dots
Democrats don’t want those. At least at the leadership level. Their voters do, but the leaders don’t care.
Conservatives aren’t working towards those things, no.
That’s the point
They should be core conservative policies on account of them being the cheapest options in the long run.
conservatives vote for small government, big business. and by small government they mean gutting social programs, and giving money to billionaires.
these social programs were to fix problems with huge expenses over the long run more so then some bleeding heart reasons.
they literally save a dime now to have you pay a dollar later.
conservatives are so short sighted they can’t see their own d$(&
Conservative means “maintaining the old ways” in politics.
It means maintaining constants through change. So it can be applied way more broadly, actually. The ‘old ways’ or ‘traditional’ ways are agnostic to whether those ways are progressive or not.
‘Progressive conservatism’ exists. Many consider the form (or a prominent one) that it takes to be ‘neoliberalism’. Neoliberalism isn’t specifically used as a defined term political science.
So these terms have a whole lot of room tp be used and misused as needed.
Hard disagree on this one.
Reminds me of this:
Dems know exactly how they could get a massive landslide in the midterms, and are choosing not to do it.
If they win by too much they woukd lose all their excuse to work against the people.
It would ruin them.
Why did they pass the ACA when we gave them 58 senators? Why did they ban lobby and PAC campaign funds in 2003? Why did Biden audit the rich? Why did Obama enforce immigrant holding time limits against the private prison industry’s wishes?
Seems to me we just haven’t given them more than 48 senators in over 13 years and now everything sucks.
Oh yes the ACA, Romney’s healthcare plan lmao
It originally had a public option, which wasn’t in Romney’s healthcare plan. That needed just one more vote to pass, but midterm voters decided to give it many fewer votes instead.
So you oppose giving healthcare to 70 Million people? And btw, the DNC plan was closer to German Healthcare until a lone independent required to reach 60 votes forced the current version.
Lmfao you’re such a bad faith moron.
You argued against expanding healthcare and somehow that makes me bad faith?
That’s cause they’re trying to lose on purpose. Their corporate donors told them to.
Paid opposition party.
No, that’s the opposite of the truth. They’re a paid jobber party. They don’t oppose the Republicans, they job them. You know, like in wrestling when a wrestler is paid to lose a fight on purpose.
The best thing we can do to fuck up their plans and screw with the billionaires is vote for the Democrats and persuade others to do the same. That’s the thing they least want us to do. They want bad PR and low voter turnout. But if we register with the party, go to local primaries to support socialist candidates who actually believe in improving things, and then help those candidates win (and keep the Rs out by voting for the jobbers when we have to), then the billionaires are fucked because the true believers in the party, even the libby ones, will raise taxes. And Trump won’t be able to lower them.
I can get behind primaries pushing out the establishment and neo-liberals, but honestly if we don’t succeed in that you’ll find me hard pressed to vote blue no matter who.
I’m guessing that’s because you think voting for a candidate supports them in more than one way?
The first way that voting for a candidate supports them is that it helps them beat the opposing candidate, the R fascist. So you’re giving them the “better than actual Nazis” award, I’m sure you agree.
But I’m guessing you think voting for a candidate gives them support in more ways than just that one?
It’s more of neo-liberal Dems are fascist, they just have a nicer visage about it as they provide more of the boots.
You shouldn’t round so imprecisely.
There are only 45 dem senators and a minority in the house. They can’t choose to do a single fuckin thing but block certain bills and force others to vote.
You do realize they could be campaigning on these things. Making noise, drawing more attention to Trumps policy failures.
Maybe it’s just the reporting of it, but the only person I actively heard making a big stink within the party was David Hogg. The party had a big issue with his approach that they used a technicality to remove him from his position in the party.
David Hogg clearly didn’t care enough about his ideals to participate in the redo election for his seat. To clarify, though, the other DNC chairmen didn’t oust him on a technicality, the woman he won against did because she rightfully filed a complaint about the gender segregated pairing of the election which violated DNC rules.
I’m just puzzled that there are a not insignificant number of people on this site who literally believe that Democrats keep losing elections on purpose.
Just stop.
Because that’s the only reasonable explanation for their actions. They can’t possibly be as incompetent as they’re pretending. “They’re not trying to win, they’re trying to ensure you keep enough faith in the system to prevent you from revolting” is the Occams Razor explanation.
Honestly, I think it’s more foreign psyops than anything else. The Lemmy developers are devout Tankies who openly support the invasion of Ukraine, Chinese takeover of Taiwan and Hong Kong, etc. There is proven tankie bot activity and the majority of downvotes are from a handful of IP addresses.
The CCP both supports the Trump admin and at the same time violent insurgency in the USA, Europe, and other nations around the world, because they don’t care how we destroy ourselves as long as it gets done.
Both parties are the billionaire class 🤣
There is no truly left party with any type of power in the US.
It’s because Republicans and neoliberal democrats (the majority of them) take their marching orders from the billionaire class.
You can just say “Democrats”, no need for a qualifier.
No, there are many progressives and socialist leaning people in the Democratic party.
Not in leadership, where it matters.
Sure, there are lots of progressive voters, and even a few token reps. It doesn’t matter, window dressing for the defenstration.
Fair enough, of course the US government has literally never listened to the people which is statistically provable. What is worse is most nations are about the same.
Problem is Americans don’t turn over incumbents before the wealthy corrupt them or their peers assimilate them into the political class.
The only path forward for US to remain a functional democracy is to primary sitting democrats at a rate faster than they can be corrupted.
Really we need a system that doesn’t use popular vote to determine representation. Even with good safety rails it eventually turns into an oligarchy which has happened to every major democracy.
I would even argue that democracy itself is just a window dressing around the world for the ruling class.
We already know you’re an enlightened centrist dude. No need to elaborate.
Did your mom raise you to be a twat or is it just your decision?
You don’t know what “neoliberal” means. Lumping most Democrats in with Trump is painfully ignorant and divorced from empirical reality.
You don’t know what “painfully ignorant and divorced from empirical reality” means.
bOtH pArTiEs take their orders from the billionaire class, get real, stop being a sucker
Thanks for admitting you don’t know what “neoliberal” means, you ill-informed blowhard. It’s just a buzzword to people like you.
bOtH pArTiEs take their orders from the billionaire class, get real, stop being a sucker
Grow the fuck up. If you can’t see the difference between the administrations of Biden and Trump, you’re an absolute fucking dumbass.
Look we have a both sider just in time for the next election. What a strange coincidence.
Oh yes, every two years, what an UNCANNY COINCIDENCE that an independent speaks six months before an election. You are truly the world’s greatest detective.
meanwhile, in reality, independents are 40% of the electorate. Ds and Rs are down to 30% each.
Perhaps you should listen to the independents, instead of insulting them? You need independents to win any election. You’re not doing yourself any favors.
This is why bOtH pArTiEs are losing voters; when will you figure it out, detective?
Hey look, someone who thinks that independents can win and not just siphon off votes in our two party first past the post voting system.
our two party first past the post voting system.
What a ridiculous system.
Yeah it is, and it DOESN’T change by refusing to participate.
Oh it is totally ridiculous.
They said: Demz should win over independent voters
You heard: Vote 3rd party
Take a moment for yourself.
deleted by creator
Try reading between the lines and you will start to figure out people are not honest about what they say.
This is why bOtH pArTiEs are losing voters; when will you figure it out, detective?
Both parties aren’t losing voters, fucking dumbass. The same amount of Trump supporters shows up in 2024 as 2020.
Looks like we have a genocide stanning, Blue MAGA party loyalist, just in time for the next election, what a strange coincidence.
If your referring to me you are about as wrong as you can be. I have no qualms calling out the US as the fascist nation it has always been.
I am also not afraid to call out Russia and China as fascist nations as well. I grow tired of campists from .ml as they are mostly just authoritarian apologists.
authoritarian apologists.
Authoritarianism is a useless term created by Liberals to obfuscate the differences between Socialism and Fascism.
Russia is a vaguely protofascist Oligarchy, that’s kind of true. They only deserve support in so far as their actions weaken imperial hegemony.
China is not at all fascist and it’s laughable that you suggest it is. Unless your definition of Fascism is “when the government says there are things I’m not allowed to do”…
Yup, found another authoritarian apologist. No surprise.
Tell me how China, that cranked out more billionaires than the US this and last year, is not practicing unfettered capitalism.
Tell me how supplying arms to war torn countries is not fascist. They are now the fourth largest producer of arms
Tell me how they are not an authoritarian oligarchy with a single ruling party where dissent is punished with prison.
Actually, don’t bother. I hate hearing from human rights abusers. Disgusting.
They want Democrats to keep loosing until their dumbass fantasy comes true.
Lazy “billionaire” criticism is so frustrating when we watch Republicans cut taxes for billionaires and take away healthcare coverage from 17 million Americans.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
Never argue with someone whose job depends on not being convinced.
That’s a lot of someones,
given the related issue, best expressed by Upton Sinclair: It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding.
Not the healthy kind of “not being convinced”, of curious open minds.
This was a joke, right? Good one
Yeah, it’s Trump, everything will be fine when he dies!
Trump could never have been elected without you hacks, your corruption made him possible. He could never be in any position of authority without decades of unbridled rot to pave the way… if he’s the monster, you’re the Dr. Frankenstein who created him.
Good job
Donald Trump is literally everything wrong with The United States of America distilled down to a person and squeezed into an ill fitting suit. All the self obsession, anti-intelectualism, racism, homophobia, transphobia, misogyny, paedophilia, war mongering, greed, hate, and cruelty rolled into the ugliest person you’ll ever know. Did I miss anything?
You missed corrupt, self dealing
Technically you covered this, but the narcissism rolled up with many of those other things, speaks to abuse, trauma, and how he has always been in an environment where getting professional help was never an option. So now he’s everyone’s problem. Passing the buck on abused people is far too normal around here.
I’m not saying he’s due a redemption arc (burned FAR too many bridges by now). Rather he’s a symbol of mental health around the US too. He’s a shambling husk made up of pure psychological damage, making every day an exercise in inflicting uncountable numbers of people with more of the same. And all of it was preventable if there weren’t so many institutional and social failures to address it, at every step in their life.
Did I miss anything?
The other 100million Americans they concentrated to make him.
Unfortunately this problem doesn’t end with Trump.
Some, I assume, are good people.
Not to directly quote Donald Trump, but I have to assume that some are, actually, good people. In fact, I’d almost want to believe that the majority of them are…just misled, misinformed, and legitimately didn’t see Trump as any sort of a saint, but still somehow saw him as ‘better than Kamala’.
Whether that was implicit bias or their racism/patriarchy showing, or they had an actual reason based on what they believed to be facts they received…who knows…but I like to believe that the majority of them are the latter.
Maybe that’s just my New England suburban white-boy privilege showing.
I also think that the only people that are still driving around with giant Trump flags on their trucks (or especially bikes), are either paid to do so, or are legitimately pedophiles themselves. I’m sure a homeless guy with a bike isn’t too expensive if they are gonna be riding it around anyway.
Media can be pretty damn biased and the people who voted for him mostly watch Fox News AFAIK. Go watch those guys for a day and see how they portray Trump vs the democrats
trump is the champion of the billionaire class.
At LEAST blame Republicans, not Trump.
That Democrats waste time pointing the finger at Trump means Republicans get to reset after this like they aren’t fully fucking complicit and responsible for promoting Trump to power. And yes, those pro-Israel Dem representatives deserve a portion of blame as well.
It’s systemic and by design, yes Greedy Old Pedophile party is predominant and unmasked but the design has been flawed from the inception. Built with slavery and genocide the American Dream has always been for the privileged white man.
Democrats blame Republicans as well, it’s just that they’re essentially the same thing (by that I mean Trump and Republicans). Republicans are afraid of Trump’s cult, so they fall in line. Not that that excuses them, they deserve endless criticism but it’s also false to say ONLY Trump is criticized. More like Trump is criticized for immorality, corruption and idiotic policy while Republicans are criticized for their cowardice.
What we need is people who actually write up policy proposals. It doesn’t matter whether you have a senate majority, you need to write the policy proposals now. What actually changes things is societal pressure, and you only build that up by showing that another way is possible, which you show by writing down how exactly you would run an alternative society. For which you have to write down policy proposals.
The fact that Democrats don’t have a Project 2027 or Project 2029 runbook proves they don’t know what they’re doing.
The fact that Democrats don’t have a Project 2027 or Project 2028 runbook proves that they’re not even trying.
Yeah, but not because they’re malicious, just inept.
Controlled opposition by design
Hanlon’s Razor disagrees
lol
You’re telling me you think they can’t fail more completely? They’re clearly either not trying at failing or not trying at succeeding.
Either way they’re inept.
When it comes to politics Hanlon’s razor provides a distinction without a difference.
I think stupidity is harder to deal with than malice.
They are in on it or worse also caught up in the Epstein/Trump honey Trump.
Everybody who’s complaining about “the rich” or “the oligarchs” should invest a few thoughts into how to actually formulate a law that makes society a better place.
Good news, we’ve had that for almost 100 years:
Read Soviet Democracy(Pat Sloan, 1937) on ProleWiki https://share.google/A2wORPR6VfQAi4E5B
We have. It’s called “theory”, and it’s a lot more complicated than just tacking on a few more laws to an already corrupt system of government in order to try and control an inherently exploitative system of economics.
Try reading it sometime. Try Kropotkin.
yeah but it helps formulating it yourself. only reading is not as good. you need to activate the neurons that do something, such as writing it down in your own words. every other way you only stay passive.
