Mmh… that´s a nice fascist state you have here.
You think it’s nice?!???
“Our heroic ICE law enforcement officers face a 413 percent increase in assaults against them,”
In a statement, Tricia McLaughlin, a spokeswoman for the Homeland Security Department, the parent agency of ICE, said that Mr. Lander “was arrested for assaulting law enforcement and impeding a federal officer.”
“Our heroic ICE law enforcement officers face a 413 percent increase in assaults against them,” she added. “It is wrong that politicians seeking higher office undermine law enforcement safety to get a viral moment. No one is above the law, and if you lay a hand on a law enforcement officer, you will face consequences.”
New York Times - Brad Lander Is Arrested by ICE Agents at Immigration Courthouse
Jesus. Mental gymnastics of the right.
If you haven’t, it’s time to start arming yourself and your friends and family.
As anti-gun as I typically am, the bottom line is a decline into fascism requires as many guns as possible in as many hands as possible to end it as quickly as possible.
None American here, but I believe the most important right you Americans have, beside the right to free speech and vote, is the right to bear arms.
Not many other countries have that.
Cant believe one day I actually say that, but the 2nd Ammendment is so important. And yes, I am also anti gun and pro gun control.
Still, the situation is getting so fucked up I think it is better to arm and protect yourselves.
Weren’t they supposed to use these guns against threats to their democracy, from within and without? I can’t see any other more applicable scenario.
And it’s wayyyyy beyond time for any politician or candidate with a D by their name to have some goddamn private security.
Being a democrat is such a cuck position in life.
Smart people hate them because they support the ruling class, dumb people hate them because they disagree on the culture war.
It’s arm ourselves now or be disarmed when they mutilate the bodies of those they destroy.
This is such an American response.
If conflict escalates with an armed vigilante uprising, it will be used by Trump to justify everything the military does, which will include live rounds on civilian targets. An armed militia cannot compete with the military.
The only way victory (hopefully through a mutual desire not to have a civil war) is possible is if state national guard and police remain loyal to their local governor and vow to fight against the federal government on the people’s behalf. But that’s still massively risky.
The best thing as always otherwise is a large scale non-violent protest. Bigger and more persistent than the No Kings protests.
If conflict escalates with an armed vigilante uprising, it will be used by Trump to justify everything the military does, which will include live rounds on civilian targets. An armed militia cannot compete with the military.
News flash, the peaceful, non-violent protest were already justification for Trump using the National Guard and Marines.
So what? It’s all performative at the moment precisely because the citizenry are not armed. His actions are clearly illegal even without a citizen having been shot yet. It needs to stay that way or you really will have a civil war on your hands. Is that really what you want?
In this thread, we’ve heard from you that,
- It’s “so American” to want to be armed in self defense against fascists
- Peaceful protests are “performative”
- Violent protests will be used as justification for further acts of despotism
- The only solution is to trust the guard and/or the police to do the right thing
On its own I’d cede the first point, because Americans do have a profound gun problem. As to the third, it answers the second and the fourth - the police and their imitators are avowed fascists who will make the protests violent any way they can.
It is insufficient to hope that the guard will stand with the states, when the courts and the pentagon gang up on them they’ll certainly cave. Now that dear leader is in charge, you’ll hear nothing about “states rights” except when it involves taking away citizens’ rights.
They are being shot at. Injuries requiring hospitalization with a chance for permanent disability isn’t “performative.” I can hope but can not trust enough people remain in the police and national guard who are willing to prevent escalation.
Source 1 of many: https://abc7.com/post/protester-marshall-woodruff-shot-eye-rubber-bullet-during-no-kings-day-rally-downtown-los-angeles-saturday/16768659/
As to civil war, I lived in a place where multiple people were hopeful for civil war to start and another place where my high school teacher joked on Facebook about open season on liberals and needing bodybags. I feel a need to prepare for the scum around me, since several are already impersonating ICE officers or killing people.
It’s not what we want, it’s whats happening.
Normal stable countries don’t have states that float the idea of stopping funding to the federal government, consider suspending habeas corpus to make arresting people easier, and deport non-whites en masse to concentration camps.
Sticking your head in the sand and complying in advance doesn’t work because it assumes governments have a conscience that will learn from mistakes and guilt. It even considers this is a mistake. This is entirely on purpose.
This is illustrative of your whole problem over there though - the solution to crap government is better government, not regression to fuedalism. Peaceful protest is not “sticking your head in the sand” - it’s putting yourself in real danger given what Trump and the federal military are currently doing. But everyone standing across the line with a gun in their hand is a human being. The moment you arm the mob, the military has a mandate to engage and they will be far less sympathetic to the plight of the citizenry. Armed resistance, or any kind of violent resistance whatsoever, should be the absolute last resort.
Armed resistance, or any kind of violent resistance whatsoever, should be the absolute last resort.
I don’t think anyone here is arguing against this, we’re just saying it’s time to be prepared for if that time comes because we won’t be given advanced notice.
We have a government controlled by people dedicated to consolidating their power and ensuring they won’t be opposed. Unidentifiable armed thugs are grabbing people off the street and shipping them to torture camps.
I sincerely hope this can be resolved peacefully, but the reality of the situation is we have to be prepared for if it can’t be.
Obviously don’t fire the first shot; but if they do, it needs to be met with a shot back.
Obviously don’t fire the first shot; but if they do, it needs to be met with a shot back.
By whom and in what context?
Relying on their sympathy, and the hope to replace them with a better government without using force, are absolute folly. They’re fascists; making those things not forthcoming is like their whole schtick. Small arms won’t defeat them in battle, but guns can make occupation almost infinitely more costly for fascists to maintain compared to willful docility
Are you really saying US citizens matyring themselves by provoking armed crackdowns by the military is more reliable than peaceful protest? Because that’s what it sounds like you’re saying.
There is no “battle” right now. There is no civil war yet. What you’re saying is the kind of behavior that will start it.
Pushing it to that point is the most likely way to get the military to fracture. Which is the only realistic way to win this by force. Not saying force is the only way, but if it is the way, you need to force a split.
There was a rally to support Lander this afternoon. Pretty good turnout for a sudden gathering on a Tuesday.
He gave a short talk after he was released.
“Mayoral candidate kidnapped by group of armed, masked individuals claiming to be immigration agents.”
FTFY.
Is he a immigrant? Legal or not ICE can’t arrest American citizens. Its time to fucking riot time to take the nazi scum down.
They actually can arrest anyone because they are immigration and customs enforcement. They are still law enforcement, so they can enforce any law. If you import something illegal or try to smuggle drugs into that is one agency that can investigate you. They arrest people for things like importing fake luxury items.
They still need a motherfucking warrant or probable cause!!!
What possible probable cause could they have against a political candidate who’s not crossing a border? Fuck-all, that’s what!
They’re holding 63 people in Omaha right now without any charge. Maybe you saw that habeas corpus thing in the news recently. One of the MAGA Barbies got it wrong and the articles indicated that was funny.
fake luxury items
holy shit i know a president who sells thousands of those
The fact these cowards are allowed to wear masks is riot-worthy.
Imagine doing your job and you need to put on a mask specifically to hide your face—and not questioning whether you’re one of the bad guys.
It’s the same reason Klansman wear hoods
Not only that, but wearing masks in court!
Legislators in California are introducing bills that would make that illegal.
It’s already not legal for ICE to hide their face and ID.
Laws are for poors, queers and browns, not for the red white and blue blooded American patriots
Source?
Not OP and certainly IANAL but as far as I know there is NO law that forbids the use of masks for ICE agents. However, hiding their ID or refusing to identify themselves during detention or arrests IS illegal. However, the law states they have to show ID/identify themselves “as soon as practical and safe to do so," so they could theoretically just say they thought they’d be in danger by showing ID as flimsy of an excuse as that sounds.
However, it is rather hilarious that they are pretty much all wearing masks while the political party parading them around is currently on a very real rampage to stop pretty much anyone in public from wearing masks for any type of public demonstration or event.
Unfortunately that won’t do anything. Democrats are not prepared to actually use the power they have as state officials to resist illegal federal actions. So you outlaw law enforcement from wearing masks. They keep doing it anyway. Then what?
I see zero indication that Democrats have any intention of using force to stop ICE from violating the law. These ICE agents are already flagrantly violating the law. This arrest is flagrantly illegal. Yet are they using any of their states’ out of control police budgets to provide armed police protection to state lawmakers? No. They’re just letting duly elected representatives be illegally arrested.
This is why the law you’re talking about is purely performative. It’s meant to generate headlines, but it won’t actually move the needle.
States need to actually start using force against federal agents that are violating the law. Will this risk escalation and civil war? Yes. But if you’re not willing to risk civil war to protect the most fundamental rights of the citizens of your state, then you have no right to be a leader in a democratic country. You’re too much of a coward, and you’re simply not willing to fight to defend your freedoms.
The rational position is to legislate. If you’re tired of all branches of government being intentionally broken by bad faith actors and just want to go full on civil war right now, there’s no need to specify party affiliation.
I see zero indication that Democrats have any intention of using force to stop ICE from violating the law.
Legislation IS the force. If you’re talking about squads of deputies militarized out the wazoo, that’s a state or federal agency which varies. And is separate from legislation anyway.
We’re all super pissed off so I’m not saying don’t “have the Democrats use force”, whatever that means, I’m just saying it’s 100% appropriate to legislate these agencies.
I want the executive branch – the California state executive branch – to execute the laws of the state and protect its citizens from tyrannical thuggery.
Me too. Anyone know where the whole state’s rights thing landed?
If you’re referring to California suing the Trump regime over their illegal commandeering of the California National Guard, the appeal of the lower court ruling in favor of California is still in process.
Is there a world in which we do both? Because I don’t think the courts are on our sides, but I don’t think that means we don’t try every avenue. I think it’s feeling like we are seeing the writing on the wall and they are going to continue to escalate. Where is line?
“Legislation IS the force.”
BWAHAHA.
God. Where do you get this stuff? It’s hilarious.
Uh, the Constitution.
The Constitution is nothing if people are not willing to protect and defend it.
We’re not getting though this passively. We’re not getting this done through courts alone.
Really soon we’re going to have to make people, particularly those wearing badges and masks choose a side first, and go back to the courts to see who was right after.
I just hope it’s done in an organized way, where those people DO have a choice. Just disobeying orders as a lone soldier or officer is not nearly as effective as being part of a group.
You are living in a dream world.
Don’t forget the cowardice of Democrats in general. Why are these lawmakers just going around undefended? They should be being escorted by a contingent of state police fully willing to use lethal force to protect their state’s lawmakers against unlawful and illegal arrest.
If the governor of NY announced that he was sending NY state troopers to arrest Donald Trump for violating the law, do you think the Secret Service would just sit back and let that happen? States and the federal government are both sovereign. The states have just as much authority to unilaterally arrest Trump as Trump does to unilaterally arrest state leaders. Yet the state leaders are just spinelessly sitting back and letting themselves be arrested. States have out of control police budgets, but the cowards aren’t even willing to use some of those immense resources to prevent duly elected representatives from being illegally arrested.
Here’s a hint. If the feds come to try and arrest your governor illegally, you shoot them. You put them in the ground. I don’t care if it risks a civil war. This is the kind of thing that is worth risking a civil war over.
But unfortunately these spineless Democrats are not capable of thinking like this. They’re utterly unsuited for the challenge of the moment.
Don’t forget the cowardice of Democrats in general.
The truth is, in practice, Trump would have not been any worse than Biden on Gaza, even if the war had continued. Biden is already giving full US support to Israel. There’s nothing that a president can give Israel that Biden isn’t already giving Israel. I suppose a president could order US troops to directly participate in the fighting, but even Trump’s not that stupid.
Typical liberal obsessed with gotchas. It comes from a place where you assume no one has any consistent beliefs or values. That probably says a lot more about you than it does about anyone else.
Yes, of course that was me. And that statement is as true then as now. Trump and Biden’s Israel policies are indistinguishable from one another. Trump is just a lot more of a crass asshole about it. You’re distracted by messaging rather than actual on-the-ground policy. Trump is a lot ruder, so you assume that his policies are worse on Palestine than Biden’s were.
The truth is you can’t have higher support than 100%.
Can you name a single Trump policy on Israel/Palestine that Biden or Harris have come out to publicly oppose? Can you name a single one? It’s a lot easier for them to do so now as they’re not in office. They have far more free reign now than they ever did while in the oval office. If they’re not willing to denounce any of Trump’s Israel policies today, then it would be brain-dead moronic to assume they would have different policies if they were in office.
Typical liberal obsessed with gotchas.
This is about the response I expected from someone like you when called out on your hypocrisy.
Trump and Biden’s Israel policies are indistinguishable from one another.
Biden and his administration regularly condemned Israel for their actions. They also tried to help broker a peace deal. They also floated arms shipment cancellations. All pretty ballsy considering Israel is America’s most important geopolitical ally in the Middle East.
These are all decidedly different than “Full speed ahead, and maybe we can turn Gaza into a resort destination after displacing the Palestinians” which is literally Donald Trump’s policy, out of his mouth. If you can’t see the difference, that’s your defective brain at fault.
Can you name a single Trump policy on Israel/Palestine that Biden or Harris have come out to publicly oppose?
Sure howabout the annexation of Gaza for a luxury beach resort?
tbh I don’t have a Harris or Biden quote on that queued up, but maybe we could allow that they might, in fact, oppose it.
So you’ve failed my simple request. Biden is such a Zionist he can’t even be bothered to denounce outright ethnic cleansing.
Hint. The reason he can’t is that his adminstration made their own attempt to arrange the explusion of the Gaza population. The Biden admin was fully onboard with ethnic cleansing. Trump is just more crass about it. You’re distracted by shiny over substance.
Ah, I can see you’re a real wonk who knows what a policy is. Well, since that didn’t impress you and you need more proof you simply can’t find, though Oh how you try, here’s some more:
Trump Reverses Sanctions on Israelis in Day 1 Executive Order Trump reversed the Biden administration’s sanctions on Israelis, suspended new aid for the Palestinians, and took measures against international bodies hostile to Israel. The president also spoke of confronting Iran and normalizing Israeli-Saudi relations
Policy enough? No? You’re just a little tough customer aren’t ya! Okay howabout
Trump signs order imposing sanctions on International Criminal Court over investigations of Israel
No still, huh? Boy, it’s like you’re just not able to be convinced somehow. Well, what the hay howabout
In 2020, Trump released a plan that would have limited a Palestinian state’s sovereign powers and allowed Israel to controlsecurity over the Palestinian state, which would be demilitarized. Israel would also have sovereignty over certain parts of the occupied West Bank.
https://www.politifact.com/article/2024/sep/11/how-kamala-harris-and-donald-trump-compare-on-isra/
So there’s a little bit of insight into your beloved leader’s policies which I feel pretty comfortable in saying Harris/Biden would disagree with.
Since you’ll just take this link-beating with absolutely no humility, grace, or consideration, this will likely be my adieu. But just real quick I don’t know what country you’re from but “liberal” means “left” here so if you’re advocating for some kind of anarchist front or something, you’re gonna be SoL in the US but good luck in wherever you are.
Jesus Christ, you’ll twist yourself in knots to make everything the Democrats’ fault.
What does this even mean dude? You want them to all just get arrested? Like, actually, what the fuck does this mean?
The hell are you talking about? ICE is turning into the gestapo and that dude wants to blame Democrats for it.
You’ll twist yourself into knots to forgive any behavior as long as it’s your team doing it.
I really do wonder if at this point, progressive candidates might gain more traction by running as Republicans. The Republican party is not ideologically libertarian, and it has proven far more receptive to outsiders and new ideas than the Democratic party.
Who’s your team?
Cringe liberal cyber-stalker.
All you’re doing is telling on yourself. You’re obsessed with teams. You hold no real values. You don’t believe in anything. Politics is just a sports game to you. And yes, I care about actually making meaningful improvement in people’s lives. If the DNC has the Democratic party locked down on permanent regressive mode, then progressives should seek all other options. If that means running third party, so be it. If that means trying to coopt and take over the Republican party, so be it. I care about outcomes. You care about sports teams.
You’re obsessed with teams.
From the guy trash talking liberals, specifically, by generalizing.
I care about outcomes.
You’re not very good at reaching them. Your opinions are infantile. You act like the world is black and white. Nuance is lost on you.
You’re a troll who shit on Harris thinking trump would be delightful payback. Well, here you go. Oh and look you’re interested in the republiQans. I hope you’re really high.
I never suggested Trump winning would be a good thing, or payback for anyone. And in my hypothetical, I was suggesting progressives might have a better time winning in a Republican primary than a Democratic one.
What you’re saying is that you’re so myopically blinded by partisanship, that if someone like Bernie somehow won the Republican nomination, you would still vote for the Democrat out of team loyalty. Again, this is all just sports to you. You don’t believe in anything except the blue team winning.
A democratic candidate just got put in handcuffs because ICE is going all fascist and you’re somehow making it the Democrats’ fault. Fuck off with that.
I haven’t forgiven anything in either of these comments. Try harder next time.
A democratic candidate just got put in handcuffs because ICE is going all fascist and you’re somehow making it the Democrats’ fault.
Yes, because it’s all pointlessly performative. It’s like that stupid taco truck or those signs at the state of the union. Pointless performative crap.
Democrats have forgotten how to actually use and exercise POWER. Republicans still remember how to use it. And this is why Democrats are losing.
I thought someone running for political office can’t be arrested or tried for a crime in case they eventually win election (at which point all possible charges are automatically dropped)?
Some states actually ban criminals from holding office. State constitutions outside the original 13 are written long after the inital founding and state constitutions also more easily amended.
And no, candidates can get arrested. Some socialist person tried running from prison, running didn’t free that person, not even temporarily.
Its just that democrats think that “being impartial” is more important that safeguarding democracy.
Close. You can’t be tried at the federal level. You can be tried at the state level (specifically New York) but even if you are convicted, judges will essentially commute your sentence.
another proof that Biden was way too soft to be president
So, NY… remember the Barbara Streisand effect?
Fuck Cuomo. FUCK Adams.
You have no authority to arrest US citizens.
A vote for Brad Lander is clearly a vote against ICE. Votes for the other candidates like Mamdani are cool too. That’s why Ranked Choice exists.
For everyone, if you’re in a situation like this… they literally put him on an elevator. Just… block the elevator. Literally. With your body. They’re not going to shoot when they’re outnumbered 100 to 1 in a crowded space. It would be suicide, and they know that.
Physically block them from leaving. Do not let go. Do not let them collect the innocent. It’s not obstruction of justice, because this isn’t justice.
The only reason they get away with shit like this is the illusion of power. It’s all an illusion. They don’t have the power to do this, and they certainly don’t have the power to control a determined group of citizens in a situation like this. It doesn’t require violence. It just requires discipline, and courage.
Link to the video: https://xcancel.com/bradlander/status/1935016805099016236
New York City Comptroller and mayoral candidate Brad Lander was detained Tuesday by Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents as he was escorting a defendant out of immigration court, his wife said in a statement.
“While escorting a defendant out of immigration court at 26 Federal Plaza, Brad was taken by masked agents and detained by ICE,” Lander’s wife, Meg Barnette, wrote on X.
They wear masks because their family would be embarrassed by this Nazi shit. Fucking disgraceful cowards.
They wear masks because otherwise they would be rightfully hunted down and shot
I doubt they would be in much danger. Maybe get an angry letter or egging of their houses.
I’m trying to be optimistic
There is always hope. It’s just that there are no daily stats yet.
I’m not an expert; but after looking at political turmoil in the last few decades I tend to categorize this stage as the “march of the idealists”, lovely bunch of people who would not hurt a fly.
Not sure if when or how the less kind sort of people come in. Usually, something has to rile up those people. And it’s not done by sympathetic stories or appeals to the heart strings.
There’s propaganda - pro: works everytime, con: only in certain ways like lying to people.
And there reporting the truth about trump and fascism - pro: it’s the truth and will get things moving, con: it requires corporate media to do it, and they’re literally owned by billionaires and republiQans.
Yes; so one can view this as state propaganda ( officially done by the nation).
That is hard to work around. But it has limits and the social fabric of the country is changing: both by technology and a rebound of the internal mass migrations of the last few decades.
A lot will change
Someone shared this link the other day. Let me pass it along!
What I’m learning is that if I want to abduct someone I just need to wear a convincing enough ICE uniform and nobody will stop me.
This won’t end until ICE agents start being disappeared by people dressed up as ICE agents.
To defeat the ICE we must become the ICE
It’s already been reported on multiple times, and that’s just the ones we know about. Also, I don’t think it’s a “uniform” so much as just whatever tacticool mall ninja gear they decided to put on that morning.
Weird Flex bro, you do you.
The ICE agents in NYC are afraid of COVID…The RSHA and NKVD agents did not wear masks, but these chicken shits do.
Idea why arrested?
escorting a defendant out of immigration court
That’s all it takes now.
That and being a Democrat
By their definition, defending a migrant, housing them, transporting them, waving/smiling at them, is tantamount to criminal conspiracy. Interestingly you don’t see the .eat packing ceos hauled away for hiding them right up until they unionize. This is just the beginning of the violence the fed is going to impose on anyone who dares to stand up to the gestapo in any form.
Sounds like it was because he was attempted to keep ICE from arresting an immigrant.
Sounds like it was because he was attempted to keep ICE from
arrestingkidnapping an immigrant.Arrests come with warrants and due process
Ah, only if the courts back that up. The SCROTUS is thinking real good on it right now.
For doing his job to protect people in his community. Won’t catch cuomo doing the right thing out there
Cuomo’s community is the real estate developers, he will only protect them.
You absolutely would catch Cuomo doing something similar: escorting a defendant out of immigration court…
and feeding them to ICE…
“yep, this one right here boys!”
Because in New York City, a global megalopolis with one of the largest and most well-funded police departments in the country…can’t be arsed to provide police protection to its highest ranking elected officials.
Imagine if the NYPD tried to arrest Trump. Do you think the Secret Service would just let that happen? Yet state and local Democratic officials aren’t willing to actually use their legal power to protect themselves from unlawful arrest. These leaders should be under constant state or local police protection. But they’re so addicted to normalcy that they simply cannot bring themselves to take reasonable but unusual steps like this. They just can’t mentally handle it, so they let themselves go unprotected.
It should not be possible to arrest the Comptroller of the largest city in the country without first having to go through a whole bunch of local police officers.
But Democrats are cowards, so they let themselves be lead to the showers.
Any candidate Republicans don’t like will just go missing.
Hopefully, said republicans will as well.
