Sure, the other two non-democracies you simp on is so much better and not engaging their own imperialist agenda and align with your own purported beliefs.

You’ve never seen an ordered list?

Want me to essay it?

You do know NATO is a defensive alliance, right? The USA doing invading with some allies is not the same as NATO doing it.

We didn’t rely on the USSR for the 8-hour working day or women’s rights

Are you fine with all the suffering that “the lower classes” are to continue to be subjected to in the case of the US continuing to exist as is, then?

Economic suffering of the lower classes is already guaranteed, as it has been for many decades in the USA, worse and worse practically every year.

The federal government is incredibly expensive, and not worth the cost; we really would be okay without a world-dominating military that can attack anywhere in the world in 24 hours. Our state governments are 100% capable and there is no need of the redundancy.

The FED goliath all costs much more than the returns, and only makes the military and banker profiteers wealthy.

Pales in comparison to the economic benefit to the global working class if US imperialism ends.

Still not good that workers will suffer, but US balkanization would be a good thing for humanity at large.

Is not being balkanized by fascists right now‽

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I’d say the opposite.

Countries should be deeply tied together, both internally and externally.

Isolation and little fiefdoms are what the right wing monsters want. Little kingdoms where accountability is optional.

Its okay if you still want to. I find that they have a point in their grievances or pointing out how we in the west often fail at living up to our own proposed values of democracy and equality. I do get why they feel so strongly that they push to take it all, but the all or nothing is often counter productive I feel. Particularly given how much work they need to do with the general public that is not ready for some topics.

I’ve been called all sorts of names just for asking for real evidence instead of flimsy suggestive bullshit. It took SO much pressing to get anything at all on the Ukrainian Nazi line they love so much, and I got SO much hostility for it.

Propaganda will do that. I’ve never met a single communist who denied that there was a major famine in China. The problem is that liberals seem to think Mao invented famine, when in fact China was experiencing famines every 2 to 4 years for over a century by the time the communists came to power. They had a theory for how to address the cycle of famines and increase food surplus, and their theory failed. But liberals think that Mao deliberately killed millions of people because he was an evil dictator instead of acknowledging the reality that Mao was leader of a massive government and they all failed as an organization by producing the conditions for famine. The context is also lost that eventually the Chinese revolution did end the cycle of famines permanently, and they were trying to solve it without any help from Western agriculture because the West was too busy protecting the fascist dictator that was holed up in Taiwan who was actively mass murdering and imprisoning political dissidents.

The Holodomor is another one of those things propaganda skews and breaks our ability to agree to a shared reality on. I have never met a single communist that denies that there was a famine and that many people died. What they often cite, which liberals can’t reconcile, is that the famine affected many more populations than just the people who were supposedly targeted and that research into the incident shows that the crop yield was severely negatively impacted by weather and made worse by not just bad decision making but also bad decision making that was in part driven by punitive thinking. The famine happened, but propaganda would have us believe that the famine was unquestionably a deliberate attempt at ethnic cleansing or genocide, when the evidence seems to be far more in support of a natural famine made worse by poor management with an added dose of maliciousness that ultimately rolls up to bad management.

In contrast, you don’t seem to have any problem with most Westerners having never even heard of the famines that were in fact deliberately caused by the West and for which the only explanation is the active choice of making a colonized population suffer.

Yeah, in a vacuum, sounds like a solid idea. Russia isn’t that friend, though.

I think the argument is:

China bad because of their human rights record. Where as the west can judge them (being from the same culture and all) because the west has a perfect human rights record. What you disagree? \s

It’s super weird when Liberals forget about Iraq, Afghanistan, Indigenous Genocides, Racial Profiling and the war on terror, Gitmo, Palestine, and Slavery all at once.

“Oh but in the past China and Russia had famines”.

They don’t realize they’re effected by 100 years of conservative messaging.

That is the thought process being mocked, yes

Please don’t defend them. These kinds of arguments lack any kind of deeper thought or nuance. It’s literally just trolling and straw-men. Do not feed the trolls.

The Confederacy was fighting against the United States. Under tankie logic, that must mean that they’re virtuous and attempting to build communism. In reality, they were fighting to preserve chattel slavery.

If you aren’t American: Depicted are American civil war reenactors with the flag of the Confederacy which seceded from the Union of the United States in the 19th century due to built up tensions regarding slavery. The Confederacy were ultimately fighting to keep slavery as a government institution.

The target of the joke are tankies (described briskly above), which we will see on Lemmy, often see any action taken against the US or the EU (the West) as praiseworthy, blatantly disregarding or downplaying equivalent or worse actions from non-western nations.

The subversion of expectation here is that a tankie would see the pro-slavery Confederacy as praiseworthy because they’re fighting the US government, despite the Confederacy’s blatantly immoral cause.

Caveat - I say this with bias as someone explicitly against authoritarian bootlickers, like tankies.

Tankies: “Any enemy of the US is my ally”.

It is a zero sum game for them. They are incapable of thinking that while the US sucks, their enemies can also suck.

Lenin agreed with the union, because slavery is bad. Tankies, because they cherry pick the history they pay attention to would likely ignore that and cheer for the Confederacy. It’s what they do. It’s not that confusing.