Boiling lobsters while they are alive and conscious will be banned as part of a government strategy to improve animal welfare in England.
Government ministers say that “live boiling is not an acceptable killing method” for crustaceans and alternative guidance will be published.
The practice is already illegal in Switzerland, Norway and New Zealand. Animal welfare charities say that stunning lobsters with an electric gun or chilling them in cold air or ice before boiling them is more humane.
It frightens me that we can’t 100% agree that boiling a living thing that feels pain, is bad.
Humans are the worst.
Doesnt the UK eat tons of veal? Seems like if youre gonna pretend to care about animals that would be a prime target but what do I know?
Most killing involves pain, all meat requires killing.
And it should be instant. Not like the extreme polar end of those asian guys skinning a dog while it was still alive for the meat market.
✂️ this kills the crab
Not true.
As at least one commenter said already, meat can be extracted without killing.
And further, you can wait for something to die of natural causes, and then you get the meat.
And now, arguably, “meat” can be made in a lab. Perhaps suppressed secret tech already has star-trek style replicators.
At least 3 distinct ways of meat without killing.
At a stretch… seeds and mushrooms can be considered/called “meat”.
Probably more ways yet I’ve not thought of.
You are so clever. Pardon me while I cook this bacon.
I hope the pig was dead, and you didn’t just gouge a chunk out of its buttocks.
[PS, Ima go run a mile from the idea of me being clever. I don’t wanna become that smugnorant and stupid.]
Technically not true… You could amputate and eat part of an animal without killing it
A TV reporter became lost on the back roads and stopped at a farm to get directions. As he was talking to the farmer he noticed a pig with a wooden leg. “This could be a great story for the Six O’Clock News. How did that pig lose his leg?” he asked the farmer. “Well”, said the farmer, “that’s a very special pig. One night not too long ago we had a fire start in the barn, and that pig squealed so loud and long that he woke everyone, and by the time we got there he had herded all the other animals out of the barn. Saved them all.”
“And that was when he hurt his leg?” asked the journalist anxious for a story. “Nope, he pulled through that just fine.” said the farmer. “Though a while later, I was back in the woods when a bear attacked me. Well, sir, that pig was nearby and he came running and rammed that bear from behind and then chased him off. He saved me for sure.”
“Wow! So the bear injured his leg then?” questioned the reporter. “No. He came away without a scratch. Though a few days later, my tractor turned over in a ditch and I was knocked unconscious. Well, that pig dove into the ditch and pulled me out before I got cut up in the machinery.” “Ahh! So his leg got caught under the tactor?” asked the journalist. “Noooo. We both walked away from that one.” says the farmer.
“So how did he get the wooden leg?” asked the journalist. “Well”, the farmer replied, “A pig that good you don’t eat all at once!"
So like harvesting claws from stone crabs?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_stone_crab
How useful :p
Can you eat starfish?
Yes, you can.
all plant eating is killing too
Correct. Scientists have done studies on vibrations from plants and they have a reaction to being cut and pulled that could be equated to a “pain” response.
Let’s suppose that you actually genuinely care about reducing the amount of plant suffering in the world. If this is the case, surely you would be vegan, because 3/4 of our total agricultural land is used to grow plants to support animal agriculture. (Since grass feels pain just like soybeans do, this includes pasture land.) So far fewer plants would be killed if everyone was vegan.
Of course, you don’t actually live your life in a manner consistent with believing plants feel pain. I don’t think anyone would think twice about swerving into some flowers to avoid a dog in the street for fear of causing suffering to the flowers.
Do you have any idea how many animals and bugs suffer at the hands of your monocultures in to produce soybeans and tofu? They destroy the habitat, poison the ground and the water, and make it impossible for most things to live on vast tracks of land. They interrupt migration patterns of larger animals.
You guys must all be small scale organic farmers like me! Surely if you cared about all life so much, you would be doing more of your personal space to accommodate? Shall we analyze your diet Friend? Let us discuss what you were eating and how you are acquiring it.
Cmon let’s be real, again this is a very simple trophic levels thing. If you truly care about the suffering of all the field mice and bugs and whatever being killed in soybean monocultures, and their other various environmental harms, then surely you would be vegan, because 75% of all soybeans grown globally are used as animal feed. (Source)
they’re saying they don’t and neither does anyone else. it’s a silly concern: animals die, and humans eat animals.
a soybean is about 20% oil. about 85% of all soybeans are pressed for oil, that leaves about 69% of the total soybean crop as industrial waste if it’s not fed to animals. another 7% is fed directly to livestock. only 7% of all soybeans are grown for animals.
I understand the core of your argument: “animals can eat parts of the plant that humans can’t, so it’s most efficient to use those as animal feed instead of wasting them.” But this is not really engaging with the source I posted above, showing that, indeed, farmed animals are directly fed only 7% of all raw soybeans produced in the world, but 69% of all soybeans are specifically produced to be turned into high-protein processed animal feed, for a total of 76%.
From your previous comments though, it doesn’t really seem like you’re engaging in good faith. Feel free to have the last word, have a great day
I doubt this
That’s ok, totally understandable. Just read the comment again
still not convinced
How so? Have you seen the energy pyramid diagram?
The one I am referring to is specifically figure 2
much of what animals eat are parts of plants people can’t or won’t eat. I don’t actually believe any fewer plants would be harmed if people were vegan.
Because instead of having to feed one creature, you have two creatures to feed. Still not clear?
You’re talking to vegans not biologists or ecologists. They don’t have any idea how their food is grown, or what the ecosystem it’s grown in can support.
I’ll share your downvotes o7
Have you ever seen felines hunting? They are fucking psychos by your standards.
Judging ourselves by what animals do is a wild take. I guess we’ve just all broadly stopped caring about being human sometime around when “alpha males” became a serious topic of discussion in human behavior.
In case you didn’t know, we are animals.
We should always keep that in mind and stop pretending “being human” is some universal thing.
I’ve heard a lot of the world’s worst people use that as an excuse to do the most horrible things, and I despair that so many people readily embrace it as a validation.
We are animals but we are different than every other animal, and we can be better and do better, and if holding yourself to a higher standard because you were born with sapience is too inconvenient, I’m sure there are some political and ideological groups out there who would love to have you.
edit: I regret spending any time responding to the obvious trolls in this post. Block and move on people. If you ever find yourself having to argue that we’re better than animals, you’re not arguing with someone participating in good faith.
LOL so being against your perspective means validating the worst of humanity? Wow! Such arrogance…
We can “do better” from our own perspective. We are “sapient” from our own perspective.
I’m sure there are also a lot of groups of disgusting people you could fit, but how is that relevant? Is it just that you lack arguments and you resort to insulting a person that you don’t know? Is this what you call being “born with sapience”?
What a petty animal you are…
You sound insufferable
😎
I don’t engage with kids trying to troll, get lost.
Stay safe in your bubble.
Did you really expect saying that humans are animals was going to be some sort of revelation to people reading your comment?
To be very crass, animals also rape other animals, and I hope to god that you will not use “but we are animals” as an argument there as well.
We are different from other animals in that we are moral agents. We can know the difference between good and bad. That makes us responsible to act upon that difference, too.
You think very lowly of other animals if you think they have no morals, or no discerning of good and bad.
Or are you valuing your specific moral more than theirs? Because that’s a very classic specist reasoning, with no basis whatsoever except human arrogance.
Also, humans rape other humans too, so how do you justify this? Are rapists not moral agents? You consider them beasts, different animals than yourself?
Then what makes a human a human, what makes them the moral agent you talk about? Is it the respect of the law? Is it a particular neurological state?
More importantly, do you really need this sort of validation to be “good”? Do you need to believe that you are different? That you have a responsibility? That you are “better” than other animals?
Are you not capable of being equally “good” even knowing that morals are relative? That there is no actual universal good? That you have nothing more than other animals?
I don’t know what sort of gotcha you’re trying to make. Yes those humans are immoral moral actors.
And also, no, I do not adhere to moral relativism, that is a position I outright reject. I definitively think that there are moral positions more “correct” than others. That is your position. Not mine.
Does that make me “better” than other animals? “Better” in what sense, though? Better in terms of discerning right from wrong and able to think about these abstract concepts? Yes. Abstract thinking is something that humans are quite uniquely better at, as far as we know. Better as in having more moral value, though? No I would not say so. If an animal has capacity for suffering, then that animal has a moral worth. And we should avoid causing it suffering if possible.
They get a free pass because they are cute.
Devastating scenes. CW: I’m going to eat you little fishy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMlDlu-MTRo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSeSTI272LM
Cats are neither human, nor do they boil their kills just because they can. Cats kill, yes. Cats are murderous little fuckers, yes.
However the issue the above poster is talking about isn’t about killing of whatever. Or about eating meat. Their point was about doing it in as humane a way as possible.
But, we all know they would if they could.
We don’t boil lobsters just because we can, but because we cook our food.
I said felines by the way, so cats AND all others too.
Have you ever seen lions hunting their prey and eating it from its ass while it is still trying to run away?
Or playing with their prey before eventually strangling it?
That’s their way of doing it, it’s gruesome but it’s fine.
We have our own ways of doing it too, some methods are even considerably more painless than others.
Also you should note your own use of “humane”, that’s a key point there. All this talk is just human specist nonsense.
Last but not least, I could even argue (as a human) that it’s ridiculous to judge what killing method is acceptable (and even what is acceptable to eat) based on things like pain, or having a nervous system.
FUCK YOU AND YOUR SPECIST CRINGE ARGUMENTS! Killing a human, a lobster, a mosquito or a tomato plant is just killing, no matter what lies you tell yourself.
There’s some kind of wisdom and (albeit self-serving) kindness to how felines kill things (sometimes). Whereby they get their prey to settle into their fate, and calm down, before they go in for the kill. Seemingly because all that adrenaline and muscle tension makes the meat taste worse, and impairs their mood and feels after eating it.
Haha, all those words that I didn’t read…and yet I still know they all amount to “I’m an angry tool”.
No worries, I understand that it’s too much text to process for some individuals.
Fuck. What hope is there for my verbose replies then…
Curse the twittification tiktokification of our minds.
Yeah, it’s deffo that. And it’s definitely not that you are an angry tool that posts rants about shit that’s got nothing to do with boiling lobsters, haha.
FIFY
LOL-Ouch!
Reading this
the very next thing after having just finished writing:
The worst, eh?
Maybe study more nature before throwing around such dangerous hyperbole.
Yeah. I kinda like meat, but seriously. At least make it quick and/or painless, not torture.
which animal can 100% agree with you on that? maybe crabs but even then maybe not
pain isn’t bad.
you are projecting your fear of pain onto other animals.
also you are implying animals that kill and ate other animals, are bad. there is no morality outside of human societies
Since you point out that there is (allegedly) morality in human societies, let’s try to act on it, no?
Yes, and we humans clearly live outside of human societies and thus we shouldn’t hold ourselves to human moral standards.
It’s cute how we set ourselves apart from nature, and use terms like “humane” to mean better, refined, less brutal, yet the moment that notion might even slightly inconvenience us, then we’re just animals.
Humanity? Pfft, fuck that! We’re just animals. We’re like cats, or dolphins!
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Imagine how vegans must feel about the world lol
Vegans don’t care about the natural world with regards to suffering caused by the natural world itself. That’s just how things are.
Vegans instead are more interested in suffering caused by humans inflicted on the natural world. This suffering can be more or less wicked than what you’d find out in the wild.
Big distinction.
Pretty poorly, all things considered.
Inb4 plants feel just as much pain, just differently
Yeah but they are masochists and they like it.
Time to chew rocks
In that moral framework ig fruits and veggies would be fine since the plant wants us to eat it
there is no proof plants want anything
Pretty sure we’re supposed to surgically extract the seeds after anaesthetizing the fruits whilst it’s still on the tree.
I don’t know much about it but Jains in India actually have rules about causing minimal harm to all living things
You monster!