Minute 1:30, it calls them a “fascist dictatorship”…
Look, I’m not going to apologize for Iran in any manner. But calling them fascist isn’t, its not quite right. Fascism is a form of political identity. It has a specific meaning. The regime in Iran might be terrible, but its not fascist, per se…
Also the comments on this video are wild.
This video is hard to suffer through. I’d love to hear a deep dive, but I can’t stomach this.
“a populist political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and by forcible suppression of opposition”- merriam webster.
Autocratic-check
Dictatorship-check
Economic and social regimentation-check
Suppression of opposition-check
The only thing missing is nation/race above the individual and arguably their extremist theism could be considered sufficient for this as well.
I wish people would read into Mussolinis own words on this. The asshole invented fascism and wanted to call it Corporatism. The US is essentially fascist. Iran is authoritarian.
“a populist political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and by forcible suppression of opposition”- merriam webster.
Well Merriam Webster is wrong. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#Definitions. Fascism is a pretty complicated class of ideologies, but a characteristic attribute of fascism is always seeking enemies internal and external and “punishing” them and that is simply not present in Iran.
fascism is always seeking enemies internal and external and “punishing” them
Morality police definitely not hurting anyone. /s
Iran is not in opposition to western imperialism at all, actually, they are surrounded by friends. /s
That being said, I don’t think I would characterize Iran as fascist.
If you really want to define fascism, you need to understand how it appears:
Fascism is a counter-revolutionary reactionary movement led by finance capital and a form of dictatorship of the bourgeoisie which emerged during periods of economic crisis in imperialist countries. In other words, fascism is capitalism in decay.
Thus many of its characteristics becomes an aesthetic dependant on the specific material conditions and social superstructure of its origins.
Iran doesn’t “obsess” about the US and Israel; they’re geopolitical rivals with the US and Israel. This is like saying Russia or China obsess about the West. As for Sharia, I don’t know shit about the Iranian justice system, but theocracy does not equal fascism. These are two completely different things.
Which of those refers to their geopolitical rivals as “great satan”?
If someone does to you what America did to Iran you’d call them Satan too. There’s still no basis for the fascism accusation; countries under fascism will do more than call their rivals bad words.
Modern Russia has many fascist traits.
Yes, and it’s not because they hate America. Russia has everything from violence against minorities and expansionism to literal genocide. Contrast to Iran’s somewhat aggressive but restrained foreign policy.
Mmm, Iran isn’t the only country fucked by the USA, but they are an outstanding example of one that, decades later, still scapegoats the USA for all sorts.
Yes, and it’s not because they hate America.
I don’t think Russia/Russians hate America. I do think they hate Ukrainians. But this conversation didn’t start about hatred; it started about “enemies”.
Iranians have a more democratic society than any other country you could name in the region.
What they are is under siege. The eleven day war with Israel crippled their domestic infrastructure. And the ongoing sanctions placed by the US prevented them from rebuilding in a timely manner.
That’s like saying that out of a rhino, a hippo and a horse, the horse is best at flying because it can jump. Iran isn’t democratic. It’s a single party theocracy that jails or murders it’s people for saying mean stuff about the unelected leader that was supposedly chosen by god.
Iran isn’t democratic. It’s a single party theocracy
I count four major coalitions of parties, and a healthy batch of independents, which is more than can be said of any American, Canadian, or UK government. I don’t know how you get “single party” out of that. Hell, the Reformist coalition just took the Presidency a year ago for the first time.
jails or murders it’s people for saying mean stuff about the unelected leader that was supposedly chosen by god
You seem to have Iran confused with the US. It’s always fucking projection with you guys.
How fucking disingenuous can you be? Like the number of prties is an indicator if how good you’re doing democracy, ignoring the rape, torture, murder, and disappearance of dissidents.
You should be ashamed to defend such a brutal regime, unless you live there in fear of arbitrary arrest for not.
You only seem to understand “brutality” as a White Man’s Burden to resolve. So long as westerners get to exploit the labor and livelihood of a Middle Eastern people, Islamic Despots don’t seem to bother you in the slightest.
Nice job not remotely adressing my point, while callously handwaving away rape and diappearances as a tool of governmental control by claiming I support their mildly less authoritarian neighbors. When you feel the need to strawman the shit out of someone, you should know you’re talking out of your ass.
Do you mean the Guardian Council of Islamic Jurists? The populist leaders that lead the revolution against the Shah’s military dictatorship in 1979 and retain enormous popularity within Iran’s conservative religious community?
They’ve got about as much “absolute power” as any unelected SCOTUS judges. The power is entirely derived from the Iranian bureaucracy’s loyalty to the Council over the Presidency.
As an Italian, I can tell you that I call theocratic regimes whose power is based on individual control and punishment at scale, fascist regimes.
I know that totalitarian or, in some other cases, authoritarian would be more appropriate, but at least in my culture fascism has been the first and the archetype of all totalitarianisms.
Not letting Iran enjoy the deserved hate it derives from an even longer history of antifascism would be too big a discount.
Theocracy, fascist, dictatorship, the difference is fun for political majors to circlejerk about, but at the end of the day, these governments are hell for the populace.
They torture, imprison and kill people that are different, people that dare dissent.
How much of it did you watch? I watched all of it and thought it was very informative, despite a few errors. I don’t think they spent too much time on WHY the government is inept, just HOW inept it is. They shit on the current government and the Shah before them so I don’t see them playing favorites.
Iran is pretty fascist-adjacent so it’s an easy mistake to make. They hit almost all the notes to play that song.
I just finished with it and its terrible in this regard. There is no disambiguation between “just the facts” and the author/ narrators political opinions and identity. Not to say those opinions are wrong or invalid but its incredibly important to separate them and to clearly identify which is which, which even the most amateur journalist understands.
Its the framing that’s the problem, and its often what a framing leaves out that ends up being more telling. You might re-watch it with a lens for what is missing rather than what is said, and honestly, its not my job to make the gaps in your political education apparent. Like, if you come away from this video with its explanation of “why” things in Iran are the way that they are, you’ll come away wildly miseducated.
Just because something agrees with your bias, this doesn’t make it correct.
It’s definitely glossing over some stuff, like when it talks about the unwillingness of neighbors to trade with them and chalking it up to “burned bridges”, I imagine the aggressive US sanctions they’ve been under played a big role there.
Since when are we getting so heated debates about fascism? Trump has ICE, and no one discussed if he wasn’t facist before that. Learn to see the cues. Elimination of competing political rivals is just one aspect.
Plus, if we were to look for a definition, might as well take one that accounts for understanding that facist regimes are, beyond all, a process. See for example the text by George Orwell: ‘What is Fascism?’ (1944)
By ‘Fascism’ they mean, roughly speaking, something cruel, unscrupulous, arrogant, obscurantist, anti-liberal and anti-working-class. Except for the relatively small number of Fascist sympathizers, almost any English person would accept ‘bully’ as a synonym for ‘Fascist’. That is about as near to a definition as this much-abused word has come.
But Fascism is also a political and economic system. Why, then, cannot we have a clear and generally accepted definition of it? Alas! we shall not get one — not yet, anyway. To say why would take too long, but basically it is because it is impossible to define Fascism satisfactorily without making admissions which neither the Fascists themselves, nor the Conservatives, nor Socialists of any colour, are willing to make. All one can do for the moment is to use the word with a certain amount of circumspection and not, as is usually done, degrade it to the level of a swearword.
And I wouldn’t say the use here is just a swearword. Saying Iran is under a fascist regime should unite us to identify a problem, the suffering of their population. Do not allow semantics to be one another reason why we are fighting among us, the people with radical decency.
Fascism is contantly evolving, thus calling it one is fitting. It’s not just swastikas, and some realized they can deflect accusations of fascism with stuff like being “anti-swastika”, but only performatively (see Russia for that example).
I don’t agree. Calling it a buzzword diminishes the terrible things that are happening in the world. There’s really a lot of parallels to the 1930s which is really worrying because the 1930s led to the 1940s.
Minute 1:30, it calls them a “fascist dictatorship”…
Look, I’m not going to apologize for Iran in any manner. But calling them fascist isn’t, its not quite right. Fascism is a form of political identity. It has a specific meaning. The regime in Iran might be terrible, but its not fascist, per se…
Also the comments on this video are wild.
This video is hard to suffer through. I’d love to hear a deep dive, but I can’t stomach this.
I’ve never heard of Iran being called fascist. It is a militant theocracy.
I’ve only ever heard it called fascist by people at both a) have no idea what iran is or b) have no idea what a fascist is.
“a populist political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and by forcible suppression of opposition”- merriam webster.
Autocratic-check Dictatorship-check Economic and social regimentation-check Suppression of opposition-check The only thing missing is nation/race above the individual and arguably their extremist theism could be considered sufficient for this as well.
I wish people would read into Mussolinis own words on this. The asshole invented fascism and wanted to call it Corporatism. The US is essentially fascist. Iran is authoritarian.
Well Merriam Webster is wrong. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#Definitions. Fascism is a pretty complicated class of ideologies, but a characteristic attribute of fascism is always seeking enemies internal and external and “punishing” them and that is simply not present in Iran.
That being said, I don’t think I would characterize Iran as fascist.
If you really want to define fascism, you need to understand how it appears:
Thus many of its characteristics becomes an aesthetic dependant on the specific material conditions and social superstructure of its origins.
Uh, doesn’t Iran’s government obsess over Israel and the USA, and people at home who don’t follow Sharia?
Iran doesn’t “obsess” about the US and Israel; they’re geopolitical rivals with the US and Israel. This is like saying Russia or China obsess about the West. As for Sharia, I don’t know shit about the Iranian justice system, but theocracy does not equal fascism. These are two completely different things.
Which of those refers to their geopolitical rivals as “great satan”?
But bringing in Russia is somewhat ironic here. Modern Russia has many fascist traits. Fascism is on the rise…
If someone does to you what America did to Iran you’d call them Satan too. There’s still no basis for the fascism accusation; countries under fascism will do more than call their rivals bad words.
Yes, and it’s not because they hate America. Russia has everything from violence against minorities and expansionism to literal genocide. Contrast to Iran’s somewhat aggressive but restrained foreign policy.
Mmm, Iran isn’t the only country fucked by the USA, but they are an outstanding example of one that, decades later, still scapegoats the USA for all sorts.
I don’t think Russia/Russians hate America. I do think they hate Ukrainians. But this conversation didn’t start about hatred; it started about “enemies”.
Populist… It’s the second word in your quoted definition probably because it’s important
Yeah they’re a totalitarian theocracy
Iranians have a more democratic society than any other country you could name in the region.
What they are is under siege. The eleven day war with Israel crippled their domestic infrastructure. And the ongoing sanctions placed by the US prevented them from rebuilding in a timely manner.
That’s like saying that out of a rhino, a hippo and a horse, the horse is best at flying because it can jump. Iran isn’t democratic. It’s a single party theocracy that jails or murders it’s people for saying mean stuff about the unelected leader that was supposedly chosen by god.
I count four major coalitions of parties, and a healthy batch of independents, which is more than can be said of any American, Canadian, or UK government. I don’t know how you get “single party” out of that. Hell, the Reformist coalition just took the Presidency a year ago for the first time.
You seem to have Iran confused with the US. It’s always fucking projection with you guys.
How fucking disingenuous can you be? Like the number of prties is an indicator if how good you’re doing democracy, ignoring the rape, torture, murder, and disappearance of dissidents.
You should be ashamed to defend such a brutal regime, unless you live there in fear of arbitrary arrest for not.
“Iran only has one party and that’s bad”
“The number of parties doesn’t matter, aktuly, and you’re stupid if you thought so”
:-/
Wipe the Saudi light sweet crude off your lips before you try to deliver that line in earnest.
I suspect your definition of “brutal regime” is “they won’t let me jerk it to women in bikinis”. There’s no real concern for Iranians assassinated by the Mossad or bombed by the Americans or starved through international sanctions. Nevermind the native expats hounded by western anti-immigration police or scientists who were kidnapped and tortured or civilians shot out of the sky for no reason at all.
You only seem to understand “brutality” as a White Man’s Burden to resolve. So long as westerners get to exploit the labor and livelihood of a Middle Eastern people, Islamic Despots don’t seem to bother you in the slightest.
Nice job not remotely adressing my point, while callously handwaving away rape and diappearances as a tool of governmental control by claiming I support their mildly less authoritarian neighbors. When you feel the need to strawman the shit out of someone, you should know you’re talking out of your ass.
This is the country you are explicitly defending. https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/middle-east/iran/report-iran/
Why do you hate America?
Who elected the Mullahs that have absolute power?
Do you mean the Guardian Council of Islamic Jurists? The populist leaders that lead the revolution against the Shah’s military dictatorship in 1979 and retain enormous popularity within Iran’s conservative religious community?
They’ve got about as much “absolute power” as any unelected SCOTUS judges. The power is entirely derived from the Iranian bureaucracy’s loyalty to the Council over the Presidency.
Weird. Almost like picking fights with countries that can kerb stomp you blindfolded is a terrible idea.
As an Italian, I can tell you that I call theocratic regimes whose power is based on individual control and punishment at scale, fascist regimes.
I know that totalitarian or, in some other cases, authoritarian would be more appropriate, but at least in my culture fascism has been the first and the archetype of all totalitarianisms.
Not letting Iran enjoy the deserved hate it derives from an even longer history of antifascism would be too big a discount.
Theocracy, fascist, dictatorship, the difference is fun for political majors to circlejerk about, but at the end of the day, these governments are hell for the populace.
They torture, imprison and kill people that are different, people that dare dissent.
Asianometry covered it two years ago.
Not as “fresh”, but he’s got a pretty good reputation for deep dives and puts sources in the video.
How much of it did you watch? I watched all of it and thought it was very informative, despite a few errors. I don’t think they spent too much time on WHY the government is inept, just HOW inept it is. They shit on the current government and the Shah before them so I don’t see them playing favorites.
Iran is pretty fascist-adjacent so it’s an easy mistake to make. They hit almost all the notes to play that song.
I just finished with it and its terrible in this regard. There is no disambiguation between “just the facts” and the author/ narrators political opinions and identity. Not to say those opinions are wrong or invalid but its incredibly important to separate them and to clearly identify which is which, which even the most amateur journalist understands.
Its the framing that’s the problem, and its often what a framing leaves out that ends up being more telling. You might re-watch it with a lens for what is missing rather than what is said, and honestly, its not my job to make the gaps in your political education apparent. Like, if you come away from this video with its explanation of “why” things in Iran are the way that they are, you’ll come away wildly miseducated.
Just because something agrees with your bias, this doesn’t make it correct.
It’s definitely glossing over some stuff, like when it talks about the unwillingness of neighbors to trade with them and chalking it up to “burned bridges”, I imagine the aggressive US sanctions they’ve been under played a big role there.
Honestly, they are above par for YouTube.
…So maybe they’re bots? The more expensive kind?
Since when are we getting so heated debates about fascism? Trump has ICE, and no one discussed if he wasn’t facist before that. Learn to see the cues. Elimination of competing political rivals is just one aspect.
Plus, if we were to look for a definition, might as well take one that accounts for understanding that facist regimes are, beyond all, a process. See for example the text by George Orwell: ‘What is Fascism?’ (1944)
And I wouldn’t say the use here is just a swearword. Saying Iran is under a fascist regime should unite us to identify a problem, the suffering of their population. Do not allow semantics to be one another reason why we are fighting among us, the people with radical decency.
Fascism is contantly evolving, thus calling it one is fitting. It’s not just swastikas, and some realized they can deflect accusations of fascism with stuff like being “anti-swastika”, but only performatively (see Russia for that example).
Fascism is a political buzz word. In some ways it is like communism was back in the cold war.
I don’t agree. Calling it a buzzword diminishes the terrible things that are happening in the world. There’s really a lot of parallels to the 1930s which is really worrying because the 1930s led to the 1940s.
I feel like most people with an IQ over 85 are understanding fascism more than communism now given recent worldwide geopolitical events.
And continues to be in contemporary commentary.