Source: the same national news stations that have been denying the Palestinian genocide by Isntreal for the past 3 years. They’ve literally taken off the mask, how do you still believe their propaganda?
We literally have leaked internal files of the genocide yet you’re here acting like the only “source” we have is just a couple of news stations that you don’t like.
Get your head out of your ass just for a couple of moments you disgusting fucking creature.
If you gave one single flying fuck about the Uyghur, you’d know that the reeducation schools closed years ago and you wouldn’t be propagating CIA propaganda for free on the internet.
But go ahead, keep disseminating CIA-fabricated lies about China while the US supports the genocide of Palestinians and literally INVADES AND BOMBS IRAN, you’re incredibly moral and leftist buddy
The Sky News article you shared doesn’t shed your favorite country in the best light either. Maybe try reading it next time?
But go ahead, keep disseminating CIA-fabricated lies about China while the US supports the genocide of Palestinians and literally INVADES AND BOMBS IRAN, you’re incredibly moral and leftist buddy
So because I criticize China, I suddenly am on the US’s team and can’t criticize them anymore? Is that how this works dipshit?
His “research” consists of conflating a reeducation campaign in the context of ISIS-related terrorism with genocide through mistranslation, cherrypicking and bad faith, and the argument is “the birthrates dropped so it’s genocide”. Birthrates dropped because Uyghur used to be exempt from the single-child policy (as all minority ethnicities in China) and when Xinjiang started developing at fast pace in the past decades, birthrates dropped dramatically. It takes 10 times more effort to dismantle misinformation than it takes to manufacture it. Go ahead and visit Xinjiang for yourself, you’re open to do so. Blows my mind that you’d take seriously the interpretation of a radical anticommunist and fringe evangelist on Chinese documents he can’t read himself (he doesn’t speak Chinese).
If you really think a CIA asset cannot take public documents in Chinese and misinterpret and twist them enough with the purpose of manufacturing antichinese propaganda, idk what to tell you.
And how did the birthrates drop? That’s something to omit. But don’t worry, I’ll tell you:
Leaked data obtained and corroborated by the AP showed that of 484 camp detainees listed in Karakax county in Xinjiang, 149 were there for having too many children - the most common reason for holding them. Time in a camp — what the government calls “education and training” — for parents with too many children is written policy in at least three counties, notices found by Zenz confirmed.
In 2017, the Xinjiang government also tripled the already hefty fines for violating family planning laws for even the poorest residents — to at least three times the annual disposable income of the county. While fines also apply to Han Chinese, only minorities are sent to the detention camps if they cannot pay, according to interviews and data. Government reports show the counties collect millions of dollars from the fines each year.
In other efforts to change the population balance of Xinjiang, China is dangling land, jobs and economic subsidies to lure Han migrants there. It is also aggressively promoting intermarriage between Han Chinese and Uighurs, with one couple telling the AP they were given money for housing and amenities like a washing machine, refrigerator and TV.
It links back to China’s long history of dabbling in eugenics….you don’t want people who are poorly educated, marginal minorities breeding quickly,” said James Leibold, a specialist in Chinese ethnic policy at La Trobe in Melbourne. “What you want is your educated Han to increase their birth rate.”
Sultan describes how the policy looks to Uighurs like her: “The Chinese government wants to control the Uighur population and make us fewer and fewer, until we disappear.”
Once in the detention camps, women are subjected to forced IUDs and what appear to be pregnancy prevention shots, according to former detainees. They are also made to attend lectures on how many children they should have.
Seven former detainees told the AP that they were force-fed birth control pills or injected with fluids, often with no explanation. Many felt dizzy, tired or ill, and women stopped getting their periods. After being released and leaving China, some went to get medical check-ups and found they were sterile.
It’s unclear what former detainees were injected with, but Xinjiang hospital slides obtained by the AP show that pregnancy prevention injections, sometimes with the hormonal medication Depo-Provera, are a common family planning measure. Side effects can include headaches and dizziness.
AP News - China cuts Uighur births with IUDs, abortion, sterilization
If you think that an organization with ties to the CIA wouldn’t do research about and uncover stuff that would benefit them, and would instead make up a global conspiracy based off of unproven misinterpretations of government records that can only be seen by genocide denier shitstain Riverside, then I don’t know what to tell you.
I already debunked the forced sterilization narrative in this comment, all you’ve done is link more people circling back to Zenz’ deliberate falsification of data, along with chauvanistic claims that China wants Han supremacy. In fact, like all other ethnic minorities, Uyghurs were exempt from the One Child Policy, and all ethnic minorities have better representation at the NPC than the Han majority precisely to make sure the voices of ethnic minorities in China are not shut out.
You are defending a far-right professional propagandist that has been caught over and over manipulating data and falsifying information.
I literally explained you that Xinjiang used to be exempt from single-child policy for the longest time and then stopped being. Fines for people with more than one child were the norm in all of fucking China, you uneducated twat. The rest of the text quoted are the famous “anonymous interviews”, and fearmongering using the availability of family planning in fucking hospitals
Xinjiang hospital slides obtained by the AP show that pregnancy prevention injections, sometimes with the hormonal medication Depo-Provera, are a common family planning measure
Omg, people in Xinjiang have access to family planning, literally genocide.
In other efforts to change the population balance of Xinjiang, China is dangling land, jobs and economic subsidies to lure Han migrants there. It is also aggressively promoting intermarriage between Han Chinese and Uighurs
Oh noooo, economic subsidies in the region and promoting cultural exchange, literally genocide!!
Honestly, fuck you. This bullshit is a form of genocide denial by minimization, claiming that everything is a genocide is actually extremely negative towards Palestinians suffering actual genocide.
Zenz’ work has been thoroughly discredited, yet is supported by western media for its utility in fearmongering. An example is lying about 8.7% of new IUDs as 80%, to back up claims of “forced sterilization,” from this chart:
I must have had close to 50 tankies request that I say something about Palestine. Is that the only atrocity against Muslims that they care about? Do they condemn a wide range of rights violation anywhere, anytime they happen? I research western China’s ethnic minorities.
Instead of accusing others of the equivalent to creationism, why not instead question the actual christofascist you seem to have absolute faith in providing totally real evidence? Zenz claims he is on a mission from God to punish China. Instead, why not read the UN report as well as (especially) China’s response to it, which eclipses it in size and detail.These are the most relevant accusations and responses without delving into straight up fantasy like Adrian Zenz.
The christofascist on a mission from God to punish China was thoroughly discredited by none other than…
Yeah. That’s who I trust. Maybe check your own sources before disparaging others’.
An example is lying about 8.7% of new IUDs as 80%, to back up claims of “forced sterilization,” from this chart…
Trusting Zenz and data that comes exclusively from Zenz is not a reliable measure.
Instead of accusing others of the equivalent to creationism, why not instead question the actual christofascist you seem to have absolute faith in providing totally real evidence?
Tell me, where have I shown absolute faith in anybody in this thread? You keep talking about how Zenz is a far-right asshole. Do you not realize that Zenz is not the only person researching this?
If you want to cite arguments from the files you linked feel welcome to do so. But I’m not going to read 130 pages of China sucking itself off, nor am I going to read the 40 page UN report (at least right now) to debunk dumbfuck trolls on Lemmy.
Your source “debunking” the Grayzone is RationalWiki, which is a right-wing misinformation justification wiki. Note how none of the arguments presented by the Grayzone against Zenz are tackled, just how the Grayzone reports.
Further, again, Zenz is misrepresenting the data. The only source on him not misrepresenting the data is himself. You further don’t actually tackle how he is misrepresenting the data, you’re just misrepresenting how Xinjiang now has higher access to birth control as “forced sterilization,” a claim that has no backing beyond Zenz’ own words.
Yes, Zenz isn’t the only one researching this! People like the Arab League went to Xinjiang and found no evidence of genocide. Instead, the groups that push the genocide narrative all circle back to Zenz, then reference each other. In this way, the narrative of genocide appears to have more legitimacy, despite all linking back to shoddy claims by an admitted professional propagandist.
I find it telling that you’ll only listen to a christofascist, not the UN, and not the PRC’s official response and evidence. It’s the christofascists that deflect from Palestinian genocide that you trust completely, not hard evidence nor even the most official allegations by the UN. Truth doesn’t seem to matter to you, what matters is that christofascist propagandists are trusted. This is Iraq’s supposed WMD and South Africa’s supposed “White Genocide” all over again.
The reality reversal is fucking crazy. RationalWiki is the right-wing misinformation wiki now?
Note how none of the arguments presented by the Grayzone against Zenz are tackled, just how the Grayzone reports.
A lot of their arguments are debunked here instead.
Yes, Zenz isn’t the only one researching this! People like the Arab League went to Xinjiang and found no evidence of genocide. Instead, the groups that push the genocide narrative all circle back to Zenz, then reference each other. In this way, the narrative of genocide appears to have more legitimacy, despite all linking back to shoddy claims by an admitted professional propagandist.
Have any sources for that?
I find it telling that you’ll only listen to a christofascist, not the UN, and not the PRC’s official response and evidence. It’s the christofascists that deflect from Palestinian genocide that you trust completely, not hard evidence nor even the most official allegations by the UN. Truth doesn’t seem to matter to you, what matters is that christofascist propagandists are trusted. This is Iraq’s supposed WMD and South Africa’s supposed “White Genocide” all over again.
I literally said, if you want to argue with the information that is present in those in total 180 page documents feel free to do so. But I find it telling that you’ll ignore the stuff I say in order to defend daddy Xi at all costs instead. You’re actually a fucking joke.
Correct, RationalWiki is run by right-wing liberals. Read the article linked, the sources are cited on the article and you can check them yourself. For example, Zenz claimed to have interviewed 8 Uyghur people and deduced that millions must be incarcerated:
The source for this is just reading what Zenz and co posted themselves. The Grayzone is just highlighting clear problems with how Zenz gathers data.
Wierd bit of homophobia on your part at the end, but I can’t say I’m surprised by that behavior from you, given your defense of the far-right. You haven’t even looked at the reports, so there’s nothing here to argue yet, all we have found is that you believe far-right christofascist propagandist Adrian Zenz is infallible, and right-liberal RationalWiki is a reliable way to avoid engaging with a group that simply highlights Zenz’ background, methodology, and mistakes.
Source: the same national news stations that have been denying the Palestinian genocide by Isntreal for the past 3 years. They’ve literally taken off the mask, how do you still believe their propaganda?
We literally have leaked internal files of the genocide yet you’re here acting like the only “source” we have is just a couple of news stations that you don’t like.
Get your head out of your ass just for a couple of moments you disgusting fucking creature.
You are a fucking joke
“LoOk, AdRiAn ZeNz ClAiMs ItS a GeNoCiDe”
If you gave one single flying fuck about the Uyghur, you’d know that the reeducation schools closed years ago and you wouldn’t be propagating CIA propaganda for free on the internet.
But go ahead, keep disseminating CIA-fabricated lies about China while the US supports the genocide of Palestinians and literally INVADES AND BOMBS IRAN, you’re incredibly moral and leftist buddy
Holy hell you’re like a fucking creationist. How funny that you just happened to omit the next few sentences:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Zenz#Criticism
The Sky News article you shared doesn’t shed your favorite country in the best light either. Maybe try reading it next time?
So because I criticize China, I suddenly am on the US’s team and can’t criticize them anymore? Is that how this works dipshit?
His “research” consists of conflating a reeducation campaign in the context of ISIS-related terrorism with genocide through mistranslation, cherrypicking and bad faith, and the argument is “the birthrates dropped so it’s genocide”. Birthrates dropped because Uyghur used to be exempt from the single-child policy (as all minority ethnicities in China) and when Xinjiang started developing at fast pace in the past decades, birthrates dropped dramatically. It takes 10 times more effort to dismantle misinformation than it takes to manufacture it. Go ahead and visit Xinjiang for yourself, you’re open to do so. Blows my mind that you’d take seriously the interpretation of a radical anticommunist and fringe evangelist on Chinese documents he can’t read himself (he doesn’t speak Chinese).
If you really think a CIA asset cannot take public documents in Chinese and misinterpret and twist them enough with the purpose of manufacturing antichinese propaganda, idk what to tell you.
And how did the birthrates drop? That’s something to omit. But don’t worry, I’ll tell you:
If you think that an organization with ties to the CIA wouldn’t do research about and uncover stuff that would benefit them, and would instead make up a global conspiracy based off of unproven misinterpretations of government records that can only be seen by genocide denier shitstain Riverside, then I don’t know what to tell you.
“But Adrian Zenz is far-right!” 🤡
I already debunked the forced sterilization narrative in this comment, all you’ve done is link more people circling back to Zenz’ deliberate falsification of data, along with chauvanistic claims that China wants Han supremacy. In fact, like all other ethnic minorities, Uyghurs were exempt from the One Child Policy, and all ethnic minorities have better representation at the NPC than the Han majority precisely to make sure the voices of ethnic minorities in China are not shut out.
You are defending a far-right professional propagandist that has been caught over and over manipulating data and falsifying information.
I literally explained you that Xinjiang used to be exempt from single-child policy for the longest time and then stopped being. Fines for people with more than one child were the norm in all of fucking China, you uneducated twat. The rest of the text quoted are the famous “anonymous interviews”, and fearmongering using the availability of family planning in fucking hospitals
Omg, people in Xinjiang have access to family planning, literally genocide.
Oh noooo, economic subsidies in the region and promoting cultural exchange, literally genocide!!
Honestly, fuck you. This bullshit is a form of genocide denial by minimization, claiming that everything is a genocide is actually extremely negative towards Palestinians suffering actual genocide.
Zenz’ work has been thoroughly discredited, yet is supported by western media for its utility in fearmongering. An example is lying about 8.7% of new IUDs as 80%, to back up claims of “forced sterilization,” from this chart:
Zenz is a professional propagandist, known for manipulating or falsely representing data, and outright fabricating data to suit his needs. The US Empire spends billions on discrediting China through any means they can. Trusting Zenz and data that comes exclusively from Zenz is not a reliable measure. Further, the Arab League visited China, and found no evidence backing claims of genocide.
Zenz also deflects whenever Palestine is brought up, indicating that he has no interest in human rights, but only about attacking China:
Instead of accusing others of the equivalent to creationism, why not instead question the actual christofascist you seem to have absolute faith in providing totally real evidence? Zenz claims he is on a mission from God to punish China. Instead, why not read the UN report as well as (especially) China’s response to it, which eclipses it in size and detail.These are the most relevant accusations and responses without delving into straight up fantasy like Adrian Zenz.
The christofascist on a mission from God to punish China was thoroughly discredited by none other than…
Yeah. That’s who I trust. Maybe check your own sources before disparaging others’.
Search engines exist, you know that right?:
https://adrianzenz.medium.com/a-response-to-the-report-compiled-by-lin-fangfei-associate-professor-at-xinjiang-university-bdad4bbb97f9
Tell me, where have I shown absolute faith in anybody in this thread? You keep talking about how Zenz is a far-right asshole. Do you not realize that Zenz is not the only person researching this?
If you want to cite arguments from the files you linked feel welcome to do so. But I’m not going to read 130 pages of China sucking itself off, nor am I going to read the 40 page UN report (at least right now) to debunk dumbfuck trolls on Lemmy.
Your source “debunking” the Grayzone is RationalWiki, which is a right-wing misinformation justification wiki. Note how none of the arguments presented by the Grayzone against Zenz are tackled, just how the Grayzone reports.
Further, again, Zenz is misrepresenting the data. The only source on him not misrepresenting the data is himself. You further don’t actually tackle how he is misrepresenting the data, you’re just misrepresenting how Xinjiang now has higher access to birth control as “forced sterilization,” a claim that has no backing beyond Zenz’ own words.
Yes, Zenz isn’t the only one researching this! People like the Arab League went to Xinjiang and found no evidence of genocide. Instead, the groups that push the genocide narrative all circle back to Zenz, then reference each other. In this way, the narrative of genocide appears to have more legitimacy, despite all linking back to shoddy claims by an admitted professional propagandist.
I find it telling that you’ll only listen to a christofascist, not the UN, and not the PRC’s official response and evidence. It’s the christofascists that deflect from Palestinian genocide that you trust completely, not hard evidence nor even the most official allegations by the UN. Truth doesn’t seem to matter to you, what matters is that christofascist propagandists are trusted. This is Iraq’s supposed WMD and South Africa’s supposed “White Genocide” all over again.
The reality reversal is fucking crazy. RationalWiki is the right-wing misinformation wiki now?
A lot of their arguments are debunked here instead.
Have any sources for that?
I literally said, if you want to argue with the information that is present in those in total 180 page documents feel free to do so. But I find it telling that you’ll ignore the stuff I say in order to defend daddy Xi at all costs instead. You’re actually a fucking joke.
Correct, RationalWiki is run by right-wing liberals. Read the article linked, the sources are cited on the article and you can check them yourself. For example, Zenz claimed to have interviewed 8 Uyghur people and deduced that millions must be incarcerated:
The source for this is just reading what Zenz and co posted themselves. The Grayzone is just highlighting clear problems with how Zenz gathers data.
As for sources on the Arab League visiting Xinjiang and finding no evidence of genocide, here’s Middle East Monitor reporting on it. I already linked this to you before, but this is an additional source just for fun. It’s really easy to find this online. As for pretty much all major allegations of genocide leading back to Zenz, here’s an example from BBC, which merely reports what Zenz says with little commentary.
Wierd bit of homophobia on your part at the end, but I can’t say I’m surprised by that behavior from you, given your defense of the far-right. You haven’t even looked at the reports, so there’s nothing here to argue yet, all we have found is that you believe far-right christofascist propagandist Adrian Zenz is infallible, and right-liberal RationalWiki is a reliable way to avoid engaging with a group that simply highlights Zenz’ background, methodology, and mistakes.