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- cross-posted to:
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/16451158
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No, the point is to agitate you against an establishment that wants to prevent you from having a better choice.
Liberals who are passionately defending lesser evil electoralism before primaries have even started are either idiots in denial or moderates who don’t want to talk about why their party is nearly as unpopular as Trump.
I genuinely have been hearing this same argument since I was like 6 years old. Liberals will convince themselves of the importance of doing just about anything except for overthrowing fascism. Its all fine and well for you if your country is committing multiple genocides, not like you’re going to do anything to actually risk your life about it.
Just a reminder that liberals will never be on the side of the revolution. They’re always going to say that voting for them matters. It’s all a sham to prevent you from actually doing anything.
I mean, both sides DO suck. But the decision being made boils down to which side you think has the best chance of leading to an eventual outcome that doesn’t suck. I’m not voting for a party I like, because frankly that doesn’t exist as a viable option, but I’m not going to not vote just because neither side is better than a 3/10. I’d rather the 3/10 than the 1/10.
I think there’s real value in being honest about your feelings. The people who represent us need to know we think they suck. The people around us need to feel like others have the same struggles we do. The space for nuance does exist.
Americans are truly a lost cause if they still think voting will get them out of this.
You need to organize yesterday and actively resist in a militant way paving the way for real democratic institutions by and for the people. Yet you still fail to see that the whole system is designed to keep you ignorant, enjoying the bread and circuses until you get to make a vote that changes absolutely nothing every 4 years and then go home satisfied that you practiced your democratic rights under capitalism. And you also fail to realize the severity of the situation you’re in, any other country would be rioting right now but you’re out there filming shit with the hope that some magic entity will step in and save you, or complaining about it on the internet.
Wake the fuck up Americans, for the sake of the rest of the world and yourselves as well.
how about vote AND riot?
People who won’t vote for the Democrats don’t necessarily see the world the same way as people who do vote D. Really go have a look at https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020
There are ethical lines some people actually won’t cross, e.g. voting for the Ds who make anthropogenic climate change worse and so are causing a mass extinction, sell weapons to people actively committing a genocide, further an economic system that rewards narcissistic sociopaths and punishes ethical people, …
Go look at the linked graph above again. You may not agree, but understand that there are people who do, and to get these people to vote for the Ds, you need to convince them why voting for omnicidal, genocidal, greedy sociopaths is the right thing to do. The “lesser evil” argument doesn’t work on them, because if you look at the linked graph above and compare the distances between the parties, and understand there are ethical lines between the Ds and leftists/socialists/Greens/etc. they won’t cross; then it means vastly better arguments need to be put forth. Yes the Rs are psychopaths and openly racist, but compared to the slightly less (compare the distances on the graph) sociopathic Ds, then
“It is infinitely better to vote for freedom and fail than to vote for slavery and succeed.” - Eugene V. Debs, Appeal to Reason, 1900-10-13.
“Wage-labor is but a name; wage-slavery is the fact.” - Eugene V. Debs, The Socialist Party and the Working Class 1904-09-01
If there are no ethical options, then activity making the world more evil isn’t something these people will do.
Yeah but not voting just shifts everything further right.
voting establishment dems… also shifts everything further right
Theres more than two options. Its an absurd premise to begin with.
There’s literally only two options until we change the voting system. Something that is unlikely to happen under Democrats in the near future but guaranteed to never happen if we continue giving MAGA power.
Mathematical game theory might be too abstract for some. You’re correct but I’m worried the message may be seen as arguing for entrenching the status quo, it’s a packaging problem for a bitter pill.
Sure but it makes a hell of a lot more sense than telling everyone not to vote.
Think of it like a trolley problem:
- pull the R lever: more rape, fascism, genocide, omnicide, good chance your team wins;
- pull the D lever: more oligarchy, genocide, with slightly slower omnicide, good chance your team wins;
- pull the l, S, or G lever: reverse anthropogenic climate change, create an ethical economic system, sanction genocidal regimes, low chance your ideas win now - maybe later tho;
- don’t pull any lever: let the 66% who vote decide.
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As a lifelong Independent, this post can F all the way off.
Yes, this is my civil, indoor voice.
Don’t you MFing tell me not to have opinions and free will, and that I should change who I am so I don’t make a bunch of establishment Dems that genuinely don’t care if I’m alive or dead have bad feels. Maybe the Dems should Fing field people that don’t gobble billionaire scroat like they invented it.
And Democrats can maybe, just once in a while, not happily fundraise and capitulate and do the policy strategy version of pump and dump schemes around the central point of “hey, we’re not the Nazis, we’re the mildly annoying guys that whimper when Nazis do Nazi shit, but do eventually give them everything they want. So it’s Nazi shit FAST or Nazi shit less fast with some of us around :D”
“Both sides suck” posts should encourage anyone with guts to see how much of the country wants a god damned set of independent candidates or even, (shudder) another MFing option between Shibag A and XXXL Shitbag B. People need to shed the chains of both parties and run at the local level. Give both sides a fucking scare.
One of Propagandas goals is to get you to give up. Uncovering truths and doing research is heard according to Josh Johnson, if it was easy more of us would do it instead of watching memes. Propaganda is designed to flood you with so much crap that you question everything and then give up looking for the truth because its hard. Ai has not helped this.
question everything and then give up looking
?
Why the second part?
Why not just remain questioning everything?
Propaganda is designed to flood you with so much crap that…
… that you [in the current form of propaganda] start to believe the truth is unknowable, because of all the lies in all directions at once. This primes you to give up [on truth and democracy], and seek a totalitarian/fascist strongman to save you.
Carry on questioning everything. Cannot have a fully informed public without educated minds. The mark of an educated mind is the ability to entertain an idea without necessarily accepting nor rejecting it.
Deploying non-belief may decouple you from susceptibility to such psyop propaganda.
We can still mend this.
(Also +1 Josh Johnson, probably my fave comedian these days.).
Probably just poor phrasing on my part.
The video I posted goes into more about how propaganda in the form of flooding you with to much info works and the problems that AI is adding to it.
I really don’t think that this is limited to American politics.
Oh you don’t like either candidate? What a special person you are! I can’t believe that a nation of 340 million people winnowed down their possible leaders to two people without producing one that you absolutely love!
you know, in that primary we had
I’ll vote, but never for a major party. Didn’t do it at any point in the last decade that I’ve been eligible to vote and people were fine with that when Dems still won and even laughed at leftists who thought winning Dems should cater to them.
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One should vote, it simply shouldn’t be the end of it.
If you voted Democrat and thought you made your part, wrong. You barely made one shift towards one slightly less terrible group. This is not victory. A part of what you should do, yes. All you should do - not.
The psyop’d to defeatism think the lesser of two evils is the best they can do. Remind them, it’s not. It’s still evil.
Awareness of the totalitarian tacking tip-toe con may help dispel the groupthink affirmation of succumbing to that. One “side” loudly promises one personal freedom cared about while quietly taking two economic freedoms that “side”'s herd don’t care about, then the other “side” loudly restores one economic freedom their “side”'s herd care about while quietly taking two personal freedoms that “side”'s herd don’t care about, back and forth, stripping you of freedom, keeping you blinded in fear of what the other is going to take from you, divided and conquered. … But try explaining that in a tweet/tictok sized explanation to those who’ve had their attention spans crippled.
Some say it’s futile. It’s not. Defy that dire prognosis.
Carry on mendwards. :)
Republicans also really love when you vote third party.
Republicans also really love when you vote third party.
(Or Democrat party too, depending on where the votes are being taken from)
Until enough people do, and sufficient votes are taken from the purple party, that they lose.
… But then, may also need to mend all the lobbying, gerymandering, voter suppression, rigged voting machines, electoral college, etc first/simultaneously.
Imagine if the people in USA got a system that helped them vote for what they want, not against who they don’t want. Imagine… :)
Until enough people do, and sufficient votes are taken from the purple party, that they lose.
Nope, you utterly miss the point. First past the post means that Republicans win when the anti-fascist vote is split.
If you don’t like the current candidates of the Democrat party, then go vote in the Democrat primary.
Imagine if the people in USA got a system that helped them vote for what they want, not against who they don’t want. Imagine… :)
There is this little thing called “objective reality”. First past the post sucks, but it is objective reality. You should try taking it into account, some time.
one week old account shilling for a political party
I remember when Gore lost Florida, and therefore the country, because less than one tenth of one percent of voters thought a protest vote for Nader was a good idea. In primaries and in smaller elections, sure, give third party votes a try. But the bigger the election, the more it converges on a choice between the two major parties, and one of them is worse than the other.
“Both sides are bad” is correct, but perpetuate the notion that you only can vote on the two different parties. There are other parties you can vote on.
“Literally the only way to stay in power”, do I need to remind OP that they WON the elections? Democracy goes both ways, your “side” doesn’t always win.
Republicans also really love when you vote third party.
Only if you were going to vote Democrat.
Republicans hate republican voters going 3rd party.
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The Washington regime isnt a democracy, it just have the aesthetics of democracy. Giving your vote to the regime is to legitimize their reign. Resist might, sow seed that relights atrention towards collective endavours. Nationalism and walldoms will lead us nowhere. Democratic confederations is the future.
