just one watchlist? pls if you protested the iraq war back in the day, you’re probably on like 50.
Me: curiously googling if you can 3d printed drones and mini tanks
Reality: jersey drones and world unrest
Ah I’m on a few already I’m sure
If you’re on your deathbed, and looking back, you haven’t been on at least one watch list, will you be able to say you have truly lived at all?
I’m left leaning, aka a “lib” and I’m a fan of things that are anti-capitalist.
I think capitalism has outlived it’s usefulness, just like religion did when we created modern criminal forensics.
At this point, we have so much in excess that if we did things in a reasonable and logical way, nobody would be homeless, nobody would go hungry.
The people with the power (money) don’t want things to change, because they get to stay in power that way. The only way to oust them is to overthrow the system.
This is not a lib mindset. It’s at least progressive if not further left. Libs will fight and die for capitalism, but they want the messaging to be nice about it.
That face…
“I’m a fucking child, why am I here saying shit you irresponsible fuckers should already know!?”
I don’t get lib as an insult. Seems like pretty much everyone on Lemmy is on liberal side of center. I’ve seen some hexbear users use it to refer to anyone who isn’t as tankie as they are, but I don’t get it.
The US uses lib to mean socially liberal, in opposition to the cons. The rest of the world uses it to mean fiscally liberal, as in support of not regulating capitalist markets, which is an anti worker position.
People often get pissy that a word can have more than one definition.
I didn’t even know the second definition existed at all. Ty for sharing.
Given the number of Americans on here it’s now starting to make sense why I keep seeing commenters get snagged on the word “liberal.”
Liberals are not progressive. At least not except incidentally. I think that’s true everywhere…?
Meanwhile im an American and spending so much time online with Europeans and internet leftists has resulted in my wife having to remind me not to insult libs at social events because people will think I’m talking about the left not capitalists.
I’ve also converted to metric which annoys everyone at work but they respect my reasoning too much to stop me
Be the change you want to see in the world.
On the point of metric, my partner is more used to Imperial measurements so I’ve just put up little hand drawn conversion charts around the house, mostly the kitchen.
On the point of lib bashing, that’s harder. You can really only have those more nuanced conversations with open-minded people in smaller groups (or just find your local socialists).
Yeah, fortunately as an engineer I just have to say “I’m the one who has to do the math on these numbers so I’m doing my layouts in metric rather than converting between x/2^n inches and feet fifty times per layout” and people are sympathetic
Progressive really isn’t the catch all that people think it is. The existence of progressive conservative movements and self professed progressive christian Democrats in the past should be enough to prove that. It’s a nice label to state the aspirations of your political ideology(and your results focused method) but not a way to describe your ideology.
One of America’s most historically popular progressive politician who used government power to bust trusts and fight for “a fair deal”, for example, was still an economic liberal, a conservative American exceptionalist and a warhawk.
Thank you, that makes more sense.
If you don’t know what liberal means, sure.
And even more generally, Western liberal democracy which most flavors of anarchism and socialism view as a system that is neither based on securing liberty or particularly democratic.
This is the american bastardised version of the word, a liberal has more context then centrist.
I’m an anarchist socialist. We hate tankies, we hate libs. Libs are capitalists. Tankies are authoritarian. We hate both of those. Eh not hate but you know what I mean. Not ideologically compatible, therefore not allowed in the commune and you aren’t allowed to hurt others, and if I hear a lib say how they’re going to employ someone or a tankie talk about a vanguard state I’m gonna be upset
Tangent topic, but how does an anarchist system prevent popular leaders from gaining authority? Also, how does it defend against an aggressive authoritarian neighbour that wants to annex territory?
I like the idea of anarchism in theory, but I just don’t see how it could be possible to get there from here where every existing power would see it as an ideological threat to their own power (similar to how capitalist powers reacted to communism), or how it would maintain stability if it was realized.
And as much as I don’t like the monopoly on violence system because it seems to encourage corruption on the side with more access to violence, I can’t help but think it would eventually devolve into a lot of in-fighting.
Like power constantly rises from nothing more than physical strength, charisma, or good strategic thinking in groups of humans. Some primates other than humans go to war with their neighbouring groups. Egypt became a kingdom when one tribe conquered the rest, and that one wasn’t the first to try. Countless empires have risen and fallen, most of the time despite violent resistance of those who would rather be neighbours than subjects. The Vikings sailed around raiding for their own benefit and then later conquered regions like in France, Britain, Sicily, and Kiev. The Mongols did the same except using horses instead of boats. Then European powers did it. Then America started pretty much puppeting anyone who went against corporate interests while a cultural movement in Russia and China started out trying to move power out of the hands of their ruling class only to see even more authoritarian powers take over.
History is full of cases of “I don’t care what you want, this is what I want and I’ll just kill you if you don’t go along with it.” How could that change?
Of course there’s no easy answers, but your post reminded me of the following:
Hannah Arendt’s essay ‘On Violence’. Power stems from people collectively working towards change, strength etc. is violence. Anarchism requires a collective desire which is anti-coercion and anti-violence. Arendt was partly inspired by Rosa Luxemburg’s views on spontaneous revolution.
Graeber’s ‘Fragments of an Anarchist Anthropology’ and le Guin’s fictional novel ‘The Dispossessed’ give some insight into what is required for maintaining anarchist ways of organizing. In brief: you leave, divorce yourself from oppressive systems and start over elsewhere.
Which is of course difficult if not impossible on a planet which has been near entirely colonized. Somewhat more philosophical, anarchism requires the dissolution of notions of property. Agamben writes on monastic forms of life, which seem rather anarchist to me, in ‘The Highest Poverty’. Graeber and Wengrow mention the ‘sacredness’ of objects in ‘The Dawn of Everything’, which is a terribly deep anthropological and philosophical rabbit hole, but there’s some interesting connections between sacred objects and possession.
All books mentioned are worth the read of course, imo.
We’re apparently not speaking the language. I’m a liberal, and I’m a socialist.
Because
You
Don’t
Know
What
Either
Liberal
Or
Socialist
Means
Literally.
I don’t appreciate your condescending tone telling me that I don’t know what the words I use to describe myself mean. You can kindly fuck off with your misplaced elitism.
No, like, you don’t know what that word means, dude, being a socialist is quite literally antithetical to being a liberal, what the fuck are you on about???
That makes no sense. So liberals are capitalists then conservatives are what… Socialists?
Liberals are capitalists, conservatives are, economically, liberals.
I’m flabbergasted, Americans really don’t know what liberal means lmao. Pull up Wikipedia dude.
In Lemmy, and I would say in the Fediverse in general, the population skews left. That means there are more terms to describe the spectrum. Mainstream media and social media label anyone centrist and towards the left as liberals. And of course the Far Right labels the same people as socialists scum.
My rubric for here in the fediverse is as follows. Liberals are generally referred to as capitalists and/or believe capitalism is still the best economic system that only needs minor reforms, along with social justice reforms. Tankies are generally the ones that want to enforce the social and economic reforms with an iron fist, even against the populace at large if necessary. Leftists are generally anarcho-something (socialist/communist), and believe major change is needed beyond the system we have in place now.
Again, that’s my rubric, and I’m sure other people have their own.
Pretty spot on observation! I’ve been on the fediverse since 2015 (mastodon) and leftists and libertarians were definitely the original fediverse folk. I was more right leaning back then, wasn’t as averse to calling ancaps anarchists but now I am definitely not holding that view anymore. 2020 changed shit. Ancaps aren’t here to help anarchists.
Do you wish to end capitalism? If your answer is no, you are, in fact, a liberal—completely agree
There are a bunch of folks in some of the skeevier corners of the fediverse that think Liberalism means Capitalism, which does have some truth as the ability to own and sell goods would be a right Liberalism might protect, which they in turn view as the source of all evil.
Nevermind the fact that their political ideal has no real world equivalent aside from maybe Bhutan where the vast majority of people live like medieval peasants and their entire system of government exists to enrich a few elite off of the world’s most expensive tourism.
Yes, we typically consider liberalism (you all may know it as classical liberalism as well, it, too, counts as liberalism) equivalent to capitalism
We (I’m speaking for anarchists and socialists) are leftists. This is what we stand against: Capitalism and the ownership of the means of production being held by the owner/capitalist class. We wish property to be held by the working class—the laborers. We are socialists. This means property goes bye bye—Property is Theft!! (thank you Pierre Jospeh Proudhon :)This is the socialist ideal, it is incompatible with liberalism and its capitalist necessities. It’s this thinking that makes liberals and tankies hate anarchist socialists—we go against the order they seek. They, too, realize it’s incompatibilities.
Anarchist Socialist
OK, libshit
/s
I got the joke;p
The great irony there is that the Tankies love anarchists. They want the west to burn themselves down.
It’s honestly hard for me to believe there are more than a handful real Anarchists on the fediverse and not just a bunch of masquerading Tankies, because at the end of the day Anarchy will just bring any currently existing state one step closer to an Authoritarian taking complete control.
The real nail in the coffin is that there is a political party in the USA, in Canada, in Australia, and in the UK who would absolute regulate government and industry, keep courts clean, and protect and expand the rights of citizens: but anarchists more often side with the deregulating authoritarians.
You’re a fucking dumbass who is confusing dumb ass libertarians with actual anarchists.
Banjo is always good for a laugh though
Yeah I only took the first bit of bait. Good to know the dude is a bad faith asshat
If you want to prove me wrong then start a poll. My money is that Anarchists at the polls are just “both sides bad” centrists.
Sure, I’d just only heard lib as an insult by them before.
Speaking of getting on lists!
They forgot the small amount of gravel.
LOL
Hint of styrofoam for added spice.
On a totally unrelated note, TM 31-201-1 page 78-82
If you aren’t being watched by at least 9 letters worth of government agencies, you’re boring
Generic antiestablishmentarism isn’t going to put you on a watchlist, this isn’t the 1950s. Glowies have better tech nowadays.
If you wanna be on a list, start collecting old army field manuals. It’s one thing to say “we should start fire bombing McDonald’s,” it’s another thing to say “we should start fire bombing mcdonald’s, and here’s instructions on how to do it”
Not that we should be firebombong McDonald’s lol I would never recommend that
But I would recommend reading TM 31-201-1, especially pages 78-82
Want to know how Luigi found what hotel Brian Thompson stayed at? It’s right in his “manifesto.” He used social engineering.
Social engineering is when you just take advantage of people’s natural predilictions to give you info or access that you shouldn’t have. For example, if he were to just call up UHC and ask them where the CEO was staying, they would likely just have called the police. Instead, he had to think of some plausible reason that someone might need that info through unofficial channels. I have no idea how he actually did it, but for example, Thompson was a famous womanizer who cheated on his wife. He was your standard sleazy executive scumbag. That can be exploited.
*Hi, CEO’s office? I’m John Doe, an underling over at the CFO’s office. My boss wants to give Brian a special surprise at this year’s company meeting. We’re thinking of hiring a few girls to come over and keep him company one evening. I need to know where to have them sent. I would send an email or look up the info in our records system, but, as you can understand, it’s best if there’s no paper trail. Can you let me know what hotel he’s staying at?"
These social engineering methods are the same tools scammers use, but they work just as well for assassins.
If you’re not on several watchlists in 2024 you’re one of the bad guys.
Layla Moran on the left is a member of their Liberal Democrats and someone who police were called out to when they allegedly beat their partner over an IT issue.
Ed Milliband in the middle is a minister and former leader of the Labour party. Maybe not the biggest leftie but enabled members to vote for their leader which paved the way for Jeremy Corbyn to win.
Based on the above two points, this feels to be quite badly labeled if you know who they are.
Was curious if the background! What’s with Greta’s wide eye face?
Rolf Harris just been announced as a special guest.
deleted by creator
Brother, you need some friends to complain to. We are not a sufficient replacement for a genuine social life I promise you.
it’s called mutual aid and we start by fire bombing parliament …
I’m surely safe to respond to this because as an American we all know parliaments are for commies.
Right Mr fbi agent?
I clicked on this image you posted and then men in black fell through my ceiling.
NEEED MOArr LUIGI MEMES!!! NOW PLLLLEEEEEZZZEEEE
at least you have nice braids
