One question directly invokes Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth’s demand that allies stay “strong, clear, and quiet” in alignment with U.S. interests.
I wonder if Americans understand that Trump is going to start getting them killed in their own country soon enough. Not just ICE terrorism but other bad actors. The US has benefitted for 80 years from Allies help. Without it, American citizens may end up experiencing what they have been inflicting on other countries for decades. Although I’m guessing that is Trump’s/Putin’s goal. Defeat the USA from the inside out.
They receive money from USA and speak shit about USA, a dog never bite the had of the one feeding them.
If Europe want to talk shit, grow the economy and become independent, like and adult, not like an old seniles.
uh huh, nato with the usa is becoming less useful by the day, America is already failing its security promises, no need to back them since they say they’re all powerful or whatever, they’ve failed to subdue iran so far, they have limited its assistance in Ukraine, they’ve stopped police shipping, what’s the point of following them if were collectively paying for our own armys now?
Where is the line? When do we stop this nonsense?
Ummmm, like way back there. This is now ride or die levels of stupid and terrible.
Idk, man. What did you plan to do about it?
I don’t have money or resources to single handedly Rambo the situation away, but if a politician were within arms reach of me I’d go for the neck and eyes, consequences be damned. That’s all one person could realistically achieve.
There is a reason I said “we,” jackass. This isn’t a one person job.
There is a turkish saying “Until you cross the bridge, call the bear dear.”, which is exactly how every NATO country would play along.
Do bears live on bridges in Turkey?
No apparently they don’t cross them
NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte (see this article)
They know that when it comes to NATO, it’s there to protect the United States because US needs to secure Atlantic and secure Arctic and secure Europe to stay safe here in the US mainland but it is also there to make sure Europe is safe and to be this platform of power projection for the United States. So, what the US did with Iran, they could do because so many European countries lived up to those commitments.“
So basically do as you’re told. Europe are the vassals and subservient to Nato. Always have been. This is not new, Trump is just more honest (lol). And with NATO 3.0 it’s 5% GDP into privatized military industrial complex, Europe pays, gives Soliders, US plutocrats get the money. That is the new model. It’s already ratified.
Meanwhile on Ukraine / Russia: “Oh NATO is such a friendly and nice purely defensive alliance between enlightened countries! There is simply no reason at all why Russia should have anything against it!”
The amount of double think is astonishing.
im thinking America think to much of itself and that idea will be challenged in the coming years givein its failure at subduing iran so far.
Allies have balked at the move, seeing it as an attempt to strong-arm them into ideological alignment
No shit.
I expect most of thwm have pushed back, and those that didn’t have told the heavily armed bully whatever they want to hear.
Can you cut him in thirds first? I hear they make real good electric bonesaws.
I hope all our former allies realize that there’s NOTHING they can do to restore that protection during the reign of Clown King. No amount of licking his orange balls will work. They must turn away from us and move on as quickly as possible.
Why? Because he spoke in front of the UN general assembly on September 25 2018 and they laughed at him. If you think that’s just too stupid an explanation, if you think he can’t possibly be that insecure and petty, finish your nap before you reply.
A normal person would feel that humiliation and go through a cycle of emotion, maybe including an initial anger, but would ultimately self-reflect, conclude those world leaders can’t all be wrong, and strive to improve. He’s not capable.
But why does he keep making up with the dictators of the world after very public spats? Because they’ve never publicly laughed at him.
His insecurity is paired with a deep feeling of inferiority to all the worlds’ leaders. When Kim, Putin, Xi, etc. fight with him, they lower themselves to his level, so even though they’re fighting, he feels like they think of him as a peer. When someone laughs at him, he knows that they don’t respect him. He knows they can see through his preposterous facade. He can’t pretend they don’t, like he can with the dictators.
No imminent geopolitical reality exists that will snap him out of it. No amount of his rivals debasing themselves will unring that bell. No protection “deal” will ever be honored because the sting of humiliation can’t be salved with signatures.
The emperors clothe.
Unfortunately for the US, Trump was elected. Twice. That means US “allies” need to assume a similar character can be elected again in 4, 8, 12… years.
Since establishing a strong independent defence and matching industry takes years, even decades, US allies would be absolutely fool to attempt any “back to normal” process after Trump.
The US arms exportations are to collapse until no one really depends on i. It’s only a matter of time before alternatives are developed for every critical piece of equipment.
US allies would be absolutely fool to attempt any “back to normal” process after Trump.
They wouldn’t be US allies to begin with if they weren’t fools
We’ve been doing Trumpism since Nixon. Even under Trump, quite a few US allies are openly in favor of this kind of leadership
Oh the US have played their fare share of dirty tricks alright to their allies, but at least, until now, that was in exchange of a military insurance. And now, that’s gone forever. One cannot ask an enemy to wait 4 years so that maybe the next POTUS would honor defense agreements.
I still think the world ought to continue laughing at trump whenever he makes a speech.
the world ought to continue laughing at trump whenever he makes a speech.
I usually hang my head and say “what is this fucking idiot yammering about this time”
I hope Americans realize Trump and the GOP have changed America’s relationship with the world, forever. There is no going back.
I don’t think people believe it. But he has undone basically everything achieved on global relationship level over the last 100 years. If anything, we are closer to our enemies than our allies.
The Trump leadership is definitely closer to enemies than allies, there is no doubt. I can only hope patriots in the middle bureaucracy of the US gov are doing what they can to roadblock his efforts.
Germany and Italy are allowed to be important. You say “no going back” but history suggests a single generation of “normalcy” is enough.
That isn’t going back, though. Its a new relationship.
Italy and Germany had suffered a massive millitary defeat, and had strict conditions imposed on them. And they put in the effort to rebuild the world’s trust in them.
Unless the USA is humbled to that level, and does the hard work of fixing the damage Trump and his cronies did, and fixing their country’s systems so a megalomaniac fascisst doesn’t seize full control again, the world has no choice other than to not trust them.
Yes, a generation after the people of a country realize they fucked up.
Americans don’t seem to realize that they fucked up yet.
I hope countries start kicking Americans out of the bases. Ahh one can dream.
Trump will probably close them and leave for some petty reason.
The US is so stupid right now, they’ll probably just leave. They’re already having major issues supplying their ships in the Indian ocean, this kind of move will make that worse. But they’ll still probably do it anyway.
What the fuck is going on here? The next Democratic administration isn’t going to be able to do anything that they’re campaigning on because they’ll have their hands full fixing the mess this one is leaving.
Even if they focus on nothing other than cleaning up after Trump (and his cronies), it will take longer than a single president’s term.
That’s been the back-and-forth for as long as I can remember.
A democrat builds a sandcastle, then a republican comes and knocks it down and mocks the democrat for having no sandcastle, while having no sandcastle of their own. Then next democrat comes and builds a new sandcastle, and it might be better than the last one, but it doesn’t matter, because next election cycle comes around and the republican gets elected and we gotta start all over again.
Dems can never make any actual progress, because every time they actually have power, they need to spend all of it repairing the shit done by the previous republican. Every single time.
Except this fucking pres is going a step further and relocating all the damn sand to to the fucking desert.
Pretty sure that’s part of the point. Either the current admin enriches themselves fucking everyone over for the next 2-4 years, or they get replaced by lukewarm Democrat party of whom half were probably also making bank off the current corruption and this will never prosecute anyone of note, while wasting their whole term either actively embattled with Trump for the rest of his term and unfucking things for the rest.
Sounds like the plan is working, unfortunately.
Then let that be their platform, undoing all Trump’s bullshit. That sounds like a shoo-in.
But they won’t Biden didn’t don’t expect the next one to either.
That’s how you get a repeat 8, 12 years down the road. You need a bigger platform than trump hate
Both And.
Nuremberg type justice, seizing and equitably redistributing the ill-gotten kleptocratic gains coupled with systemic changes-> abolishing Citizens United, universal healthcare and billionaire taxation all MUST happen.
Anything less will not do.
How about Trump hate, and action to strengthen our democracy to never let it happen again?
His administration is doing everything in their power to make our country theirs. Let’s fix all the loopholes and make all their tricks illegal, with ACTUAL repercussions with teeth and people to hold them accountable. His administration is the first to be so blatant with their corruption. Let’s use it as a blueprint for a path forward.
deleted by creator
They should assume they already lost US protection. What’s happening in the Strait of Hormuz shows how much it actually is worth. This is a geopolitical tactic as old as time, they don’t have the capacity and are losing ground so they have to see who grovels so they can find their next mark, but NATO is already losing US protection given how much they’ve signaled it - although it’s not like right now it’s anything but symbolic.
Hey so, I serve in a NATO military. Here is my statement:
Fuck Trump, fuck anyone that supports him and fuck those that allowed the USA to get this shite. Any American that opposes him, I will buy you a drink.
Huzzah!! 🍻
Not even a big drinker, but if we could, it would mean our borders weren’t so terrifying, and maybe we were a free people.
Here’s to the dream, brother.
And thank you for your service…in opposition to petty, worthless mobster tyrants like ours.
The rest of NATO really needs to form an inner circle that excludes America. We’re a massive liability to the organization.
They could call the select group “NATO Gold”. Being excluded from a select organization that has the word ‘gold’ in its name would really piss Trump off.
You think they don’t already?
The difference is that it doesn’t have a big flashy public name. It will be an informal network of diplomats and knowledgeable command staff.
Yup. The smart move is to do this without Trump knowing you’re doing it. There is still a significant amount of dependence on the US defense industrial complex in a lot of NATO, so it would be a big gap if the rest of NATO was openly telling the US to go fuck itself (as satisfying as that would be). It makes more sense to quietly transition from US dependence over time.
Didn’t we already do that, I remember there being a secret meeting of the leaders of most European countries that the US wasn’t invited to, where they supposedly discussed future defense as the US grows unreliable
Not only outside of NATO, but also inside the other countries are starting to fill the vacuum left by the US. The importance of the US to NATO has severely diminished in the past 2 years and this process is accelerating. I have even heard rumblings of the US getting kicked out (eventually) of NATO if they continue being unreliable. At a minimum there is a serious realignment ongoing.
But yes, post-NATO security frameworks are being openly and secretly discussed in Europe and with its democratic non-US allies.
It’s on purpose at this point. I’m fairly certain one of the aims of the heritage foundation is to turn the U.S. into a technofeudal state with billionaires running everything. And if the U.S. breaks up Balkan style, even better.
Yeah, but they keep it quiet. The fastest Trump retreats the harder it is to switch so they’ll send in Rutte for some serious brown-nosing while buying, producing and setting up their own non US weapons and systems. Besides, everybody could see very well how much USA’s protection is worth in the Straight of Hormuz. Meanwhile Trump starts to notice how much he gets done without allies.
I don’t think they see much strategic purpose in pissing Trump off :p
Yeah but then he’ll want back in and the cycle starts again :-(
NATO gold is reserved for the united states only, with trump as chief senior executive top general. No one else can attend those meetings
Everyone else gets put in NATO brass, and they need to meet regularly to show that they are on board with this new system.
This is a perfect example of conservative MAGA values. They want a heirarchy system where the chosen people at the top are given special privileges and are effectively above the law. This is what .makes MAGA so foreign and hard to understand for so many people.
Know your enemy.
Starting to doubt if America can even defend itself after depleting missiles against Iraq and attacking fishermen in the gulf. Someone just go for it already! Trump will have to live with the shame of being one of the few presidents that had a foreign power attack the US.
I’d call it a certainty that the Trump military would use nukes against a real threat like that.
