• DupaCycki@lemmy.world
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    22 hours ago

    Israel does not have a right to exist.

    Israel has a right to go fuck itself right in the ass with a grenade launcher.

    • justastranger@sh.itjust.works
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      22 hours ago

      Israel does not have a right to exist.

      This is like saying unions don’t have the right to exist because of police unions. Don’t let the existence of corruption rob an entire group of the right to exist. If Israel didn’t exist, every country would go right back to treating Jews the way they’ve always treated them. Demand the downfall of the ethnonationalists, not the nations being used to justify ethnonationalism.

      • demonsword@lemmy.world
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        6 hours ago

        If Israel didn’t exist, every country would go right back to treating Jews the way they’ve always treated them.

        bullshit, jews already live all over the world and antisemitism was well under control until Israel’s current government decided to speedrun their palestinian genocide

      • TheHonourablePierrePoilievre@lemmy.ca
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        17 hours ago

        Terrible example! Israel is intertwined with the worst most violent and intrusive components of policing. They use Palestine as a laboratory to run experiments about how to oppress people. A key component of a global network of repression and imiseration. It is one of the ways the evil project is insinuated into everybody’s lives, even if you do not consider Arabs to be full humans. Which is a required assumption to be writing comments such as the above.

        Abolish the police and abolish Israel.

      • 3abas@lemmy.world
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        19 hours ago

        What a fucking joke. The world persecuted Jews is the reason they have to genocide, ethnically cleanse, and colonize Palestine?

        Do Palestinians get to choose a people to do that to? When do we stop with this stupid loop?

        • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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          6 hours ago

          What a fucking joke. The world persecuted Jews is the reason they have to genocide, ethnically cleanse, and colonize Palestine?

          Do you not see a difference between “right to exist” and “commit genocide”?

          • reddit_sux@lemmy.world
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            5 hours ago

            We do but Israel doesn’t seem to. It has been carrying out Genocide since it’s inception. The only time it has been attacked was during the first arab war, Yom Kippur war. Rest have been belligerence of the US and European colony of Israel.

            • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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              4 hours ago

              We do but Israel doesn’t seem to

              Oh, yeah, silly me, I forgot that Israel is a hive-mind and if Netanyahu and the right-wing extremists want to eradicate Palestine, then ALL Israelis want that too!

              It has been carrying out Genocide since it’s inception

              The word has lost all its meaning, I see. “They’re doing bad things” == “Genocide”.

              • reddit_sux@lemmy.world
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                4 hours ago

                The International Court of Justice has said it’s a Genocide. Ethinically cleansing of a population is not just a bad thing it is the literal definition of Genocide.

                If you want to change the definition I am sure you would also mean Holocaust was also just a bad thing.

                European should stop pushing it’s problem elsewhere and take care of it by themselves.

                • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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                  3 hours ago

                  The International Court of Justice has said it’s a Genocide

                  In 2025.

                  If you want to change the definition I am sure you would also mean Holocaust was also just a bad thing.

                  I’m not changing anything. I’m agreeing with the ICJ. You’re changing the meaning of the word to be “bad things are happening” since you’re claiming that Israel “has been carrying out Genocide since [Palestine’s] inception”.

                  Which is ludicrous considering they had independent elections, and a population boom of going from 600k to 5 million in 100 years.

      • BrickEater@lemmy.world
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        21 hours ago

        Bull fucking shit. Israel is stolen land, taken during the Nakba after Palestinians were kind enough to welcome Jewish refugees from Europe. It has no fucking right to exist any more than the US or any other conquering nation does.

        • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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          6 hours ago

          Israel is stolen land, taken during the Nakba after Palestinians were kind enough to welcome Jewish refugees from Europe

          Israelis lived in that area for at least 3000 years.

          • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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            6 hours ago

            Yeah, except the word changed to Palestinians. Some converted to Christianity, most converted to Islam, and plenty of ethnic mixing happened between the beginning of the diaspora and the nakhba, on both sides.

            • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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              4 hours ago

              Yup! And since both nations want independence, why would only one be allowed to have it?

              The problem is that the world has been completely blind to the crimes Israel has been committing, slowly encroaching on Palestinian land.

              What needs to happen is the removal of current heads of Israeli state, ideally by execution for all the crimes against humanity they committed, a new democratic election on both sides of the fence (reminder: Palestinians enjoyed their last election in 2008 when Hamas took over and installed religious dictatorship), and then the establishment of a UN-coordinated force, ideally culturally neutral (like Japan/China/Korea) to ensure that the borders are respected.

                • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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                  3 hours ago

                  Which is which? Palestinians didn’t exist as a nation (it was “the region of Palestine”, not a country) until the exact same UN resolution that created Israel. Which, fun fact, does have historical records of existence in the region… So? Which ones are the settlers?

          • reddit_sux@lemmy.world
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            5 hours ago

            European Jews didn’t, don’t quote religious books or Persians, Egyptian have more rights over that region than Jews.

            • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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              4 hours ago

              Religious books…? Are you confusing the Kingdom of Israel with the biblical “United Kingdom of Israel”?

              • reddit_sux@lemmy.world
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                4 hours ago

                The existence of Kingdom of Israel is an ongoing academic debate and has no connection to the current Israel if at all they existed.

                The land was Egyptian before Jewish. So they have a more ancient right over that land. Maybe Syrians before them.

                • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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                  3 hours ago

                  Yeah, so you’re confusing the Kingdom of Israel, which is mentioned in Assyrian records, on the Moabite Stone, etc., etc.

                  The land was Egyptian before Jewish. So they have a more ancient right over that land. Maybe Syrians before them.

                  Yup. Which just highlights how stupid the whole “someone has the right to a territory because of [historical reasons]” is.

                  Reality is super simple: the right to a territory belongs to those who can obtain that territory and hold it. That’s how it always worked throughout history, even if we’re now trying to sugarcoat things by pretending that’s not the case. If russia didn’t fumble the full-scale war with Ukraine as bad as they had, and if Ukraine didn’t receive the support they did, within the next 5-10 years nobody would be talking about “occupied Ukraine”, it’d be just “russia”.

                  Poland moved a couple hundred kilometers to the west after the Second World War, Germany’s borders are completely different than they used to be, Great Britain lost its colonies - nobody gives a fuck about any “ancient right”, it’s literally only about power (both in terms of military capability, as well as diplomatic ability to negotiate and resolve conflicts).

                  And with that out of the way, the reality is this: Palestine received a nation state in the exact same UN resolution that created Israel. One has the exact same right to exist as the other - their diplomatic effort gave them these nations and that’s that.

                  What now needs to happen is for the UN to actually enforce its mandates by securing the borders at least as long as it takes Palestine to rebuild.

                  • reddit_sux@lemmy.world
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                    3 hours ago

                    Israel in its present avatar didn’t exist before the British have it to Europeans. The land was taken from Arabs who were living under the Ottoman rules. There were Jews living there but were a minority.

                    Europeans just exported their problems elsewhere and are now propping it up.

                    Palestine received a nation state in the exact same UN resolution that created Israel. One has the exact same right to exist as the other - their diplomatic effort gave them these nations and that’s that.

                    Yet it allowed for the theocratic colony of Israel to continue is genocide.

                    The only way to ensure peace in Middle East is for Israel to not exist and all the Europeans go back to their own countries.

        • poopkins@lemmy.world
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          11 hours ago

          To which date, specifically, should we reset nations and borders, in your opinion?

          • BrickEater@lemmy.world
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            7 hours ago

            Pedantic argument. There’s no specific date to “reset”. You and I are both well aware of who is an oppressor and who the land was stolen from.

            Land back to all Native peoples, fuck the Eurocentric hegemony created by European imperialism.

            • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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              6 hours ago

              Land back to all Native peoples

              The Kingdom of Israel existed there up until 720 BCE. Israelis and Jews lived in that area effectively “always”, just like the Palestinians. Returning “land back to all Native peoples” would mean exactly what we did - establishing a Palestine AND an Israel.

              What’s missing right now is the UN to get off its arse and ensure that they remain separate, without Israel encroaching on Palestinian land.

              • reddit_sux@lemmy.world
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                2 hours ago

                It ended is existence in 720 BCE. Current State of Israel has no relation to it other than name. Majority of the Jews staying there today are Europeans.

                • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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                  21 minutes ago

                  Majority of Jews are Europeans because they got kicked out of their home in the 15th-16th century.

                  But now we have a conundrum! You’re saying that “State of Israel has no relation to it other than name”, and that is - from what I understand - your argument towards there being no Israel as the solution to the issues, right?

                  But that means Palestine should be eliminated too considering it never existed as a nation at all in the entire history of humanity.

                  So, which is it? Are we keeping your methodology and giving back the entire territory to Iran, or are we agreeing that it’s stupid fucking methodology?

            • boonhet@sopuli.xyz
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              9 hours ago

              No, it’s a valid question, Jews also used to live in that land millennia ago.

                • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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                  6 hours ago

                  Did you used to own the house and then were kicked out of it by force by a third party that never owned even part of the house?

      • Rat_in_a_hat@lemmy.ca
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        20 hours ago

        States don’t have a right to exist, especially ethno supremacist ones.