This is like saying unions don’t have the right to exist because of police unions. Don’t let the existence of corruption rob an entire group of the right to exist. If Israel didn’t exist, every country would go right back to treating Jews the way they’ve always treated them. Demand the downfall of the ethnonationalists, not the nations being used to justify ethnonationalism.
If Israel didn’t exist, every country would go right back to treating Jews the way they’ve always treated them.
bullshit, jews already live all over the world and antisemitism was well under control until Israel’s current government decided to speedrun their palestinian genocide
Terrible example! Israel is intertwined with the worst most violent and intrusive components of policing. They use Palestine as a laboratory to run experiments about how to oppress people. A key component of a global network of repression and imiseration. It is one of the ways the evil project is insinuated into everybody’s lives, even if you do not consider Arabs to be full humans. Which is a required assumption to be writing comments such as the above.
We do but Israel doesn’t seem to. It has been carrying out Genocide since it’s inception. The only time it has been attacked was during the first arab war, Yom Kippur war. Rest have been belligerence of the US and European colony of Israel.
Oh, yeah, silly me, I forgot that Israel is a hive-mind and if Netanyahu and the right-wing extremists want to eradicate Palestine, then ALL Israelis want that too!
It has been carrying out Genocide since it’s inception
The word has lost all its meaning, I see. “They’re doing bad things” == “Genocide”.
The International Court of Justice has said it’s a Genocide. Ethinically cleansing of a population is not just a bad thing it is the literal definition of Genocide.
If you want to change the definition I am sure you would also mean Holocaust was also just a bad thing.
European should stop pushing it’s problem elsewhere and take care of it by themselves.
The International Court of Justice has said it’s a Genocide
In 2025.
If you want to change the definition I am sure you would also mean Holocaust was also just a bad thing.
I’m not changing anything. I’m agreeing with the ICJ. You’re changing the meaning of the word to be “bad things are happening” since you’re claiming that Israel “has been carrying out Genocide since [Palestine’s] inception”.
Which is ludicrous considering they had independent elections, and a population boom of going from 600k to 5 million in 100 years.
Palestine was the land before that, true. Not the nation, though. That was also established in the same UN resolution that created Israel.
So, from what you’re saying I understand that you’re the proponent of returning the entire area back to Iran? They’re the closest we can get to Persia, I think.
Bull fucking shit. Israel is stolen land, taken during the Nakba after Palestinians were kind enough to welcome Jewish refugees from Europe. It has no fucking right to exist any more than the US or any other conquering nation does.
Yeah, except the word changed to Palestinians. Some converted to Christianity, most converted to Islam, and plenty of ethnic mixing happened between the beginning of the diaspora and the nakhba, on both sides.
Yup! And since both nations want independence, why would only one be allowed to have it?
The problem is that the world has been completely blind to the crimes Israel has been committing, slowly encroaching on Palestinian land.
What needs to happen is the removal of current heads of Israeli state, ideally by execution for all the crimes against humanity they committed, a new democratic election on both sides of the fence (reminder: Palestinians enjoyed their last election in 2008 when Hamas took over and installed religious dictatorship), and then the establishment of a UN-coordinated force, ideally culturally neutral (like Japan/China/Korea) to ensure that the borders are respected.
Which is which? Palestinians didn’t exist as a nation (it was “the region of Palestine”, not a country) until the exact same UN resolution that created Israel. Which, fun fact, does have historical records of existence in the region… So? Which ones are the settlers?
Let me get this straight - a nation gets kicked out of their homeland, they become, effectively, wanderers, they travel through the ages through the entirety of Europe always believing they will one day return home, but… since it’s been however many generations, they now no longer have the right to return?
What’s the cut-off number of generations where you can no longer call something your home, when your ancestors were forcefully kicked out?
(also, we’re conveniently forgetting about the 100-300k Israelis/Jews that remained in current-day Israel and the Region of Palestine throughout those generations, I’m just wondering what’s your take on the right to live in a place)
Yeah, so you’re confusing the Kingdom of Israel, which is mentioned in Assyrian records, on the Moabite Stone, etc., etc.
The land was Egyptian before Jewish. So they have a more ancient right over that land. Maybe Syrians before them.
Yup. Which just highlights how stupid the whole “someone has the right to a territory because of [historical reasons]” is.
Reality is super simple: the right to a territory belongs to those who can obtain that territory and hold it. That’s how it always worked throughout history, even if we’re now trying to sugarcoat things by pretending that’s not the case. If russia didn’t fumble the full-scale war with Ukraine as bad as they had, and if Ukraine didn’t receive the support they did, within the next 5-10 years nobody would be talking about “occupied Ukraine”, it’d be just “russia”.
Poland moved a couple hundred kilometers to the west after the Second World War, Germany’s borders are completely different than they used to be, Great Britain lost its colonies - nobody gives a fuck about any “ancient right”, it’s literally only about power (both in terms of military capability, as well as diplomatic ability to negotiate and resolve conflicts).
And with that out of the way, the reality is this: Palestine received a nation state in the exact same UN resolution that created Israel. One has the exact same right to exist as the other - their diplomatic effort gave them these nations and that’s that.
What now needs to happen is for the UN to actually enforce its mandates by securing the borders at least as long as it takes Palestine to rebuild.
Israel in its present avatar didn’t exist before the British have it to Europeans. The land was taken from Arabs who were living under the Ottoman rules. There were Jews living there but were a minority.
Europeans just exported their problems elsewhere and are now propping it up.
Palestine received a nation state in the exact same UN resolution that created Israel. One has the exact same right to exist as the other - their diplomatic effort gave them these nations and that’s that.
Yet it allowed for the theocratic colony of Israel to continue is genocide.
The only way to ensure peace in Middle East is for Israel to not exist and all the Europeans go back to their own countries.
Israel in its present avatar didn’t exist before the British have it to Europeans
Yeah, same with Palestine.
The land was taken from Arabs who were living under the Ottoman rules.
Who took the land from Jews/Israelis.
There were Jews living there but were a minority.
Because they were persecuted and forced into exile, yes.
Yet it allowed for the theocratic colony of Israel to continue is genocide.
You keep using that word, but I don’t think you understand what it means.
Palestine went from a population of 600k to 5 million in the span of 100 years. That’s a faster growth than Denmark. If that’s “genocide”, then, my god, it has to be the most incompetent genocide in the history of our species, considering it worked backwards.
The only way to ensure peace in Middle East is for Israel to not exist and all the Europeans go back to their own countries.
Or, and hear me out, a strong contingent of culturally-neutral forces that ensure no settlers take land from Palestine, the prosecution of said settlers, the proper establishment of the rule of law and democracy in Palestine (last elections in 2008 due to Hamas’ theocratic authoritarianism).
And, please, stop with this ridiculous “Europeans”. Or, if you don’t, I’ll start calling Palestinians “Iranians”. Makes as much sense. Deal?
The Kingdom of Israel existed there up until 720 BCE. Israelis and Jews lived in that area effectively “always”, just like the Palestinians. Returning “land back to all Native peoples” would mean exactly what we did - establishing a Palestine AND an Israel.
What’s missing right now is the UN to get off its arse and ensure that they remain separate, without Israel encroaching on Palestinian land.
It ended is existence in 720 BCE. Current State of Israel has no relation to it other than name. Majority of the Jews staying there today are Europeans.
Majority of Jews are Europeans because they got kicked out of their home in the 15th-16th century.
But now we have a conundrum! You’re saying that “State of Israel has no relation to it other than name”, and that is - from what I understand - your argument towards there being no Israel as the solution to the issues, right?
But that means Palestine should be eliminated too considering it never existed as a nation at all in the entire history of humanity.
So, which is it? Are we keeping your methodology and giving back the entire territory to Iran, or are we agreeing that it’s stupid fucking methodology?
This is like saying unions don’t have the right to exist because of police unions. Don’t let the existence of corruption rob an entire group of the right to exist. If Israel didn’t exist, every country would go right back to treating Jews the way they’ve always treated them. Demand the downfall of the ethnonationalists, not the nations being used to justify ethnonationalism.
bullshit, jews already live all over the world and antisemitism was well under control until Israel’s current government decided to speedrun their palestinian genocide
You’re either disingenuous, or a fool
Terrible example! Israel is intertwined with the worst most violent and intrusive components of policing. They use Palestine as a laboratory to run experiments about how to oppress people. A key component of a global network of repression and imiseration. It is one of the ways the evil project is insinuated into everybody’s lives, even if you do not consider Arabs to be full humans. Which is a required assumption to be writing comments such as the above.
Abolish the police and abolish Israel.
What a fucking joke. The world persecuted Jews is the reason they have to genocide, ethnically cleanse, and colonize Palestine?
Do Palestinians get to choose a people to do that to? When do we stop with this stupid loop?
Who would have thought that lesson they would take from the Holocaust would be to Pay It Forward?
Do you not see a difference between “right to exist” and “commit genocide”?
We do but Israel doesn’t seem to. It has been carrying out Genocide since it’s inception. The only time it has been attacked was during the first arab war, Yom Kippur war. Rest have been belligerence of the US and European colony of Israel.
Oh, yeah, silly me, I forgot that Israel is a hive-mind and if Netanyahu and the right-wing extremists want to eradicate Palestine, then ALL Israelis want that too!
The word has lost all its meaning, I see. “They’re doing bad things” == “Genocide”.
The International Court of Justice has said it’s a Genocide. Ethinically cleansing of a population is not just a bad thing it is the literal definition of Genocide.
If you want to change the definition I am sure you would also mean Holocaust was also just a bad thing.
European should stop pushing it’s problem elsewhere and take care of it by themselves.
In 2025.
I’m not changing anything. I’m agreeing with the ICJ. You’re changing the meaning of the word to be “bad things are happening” since you’re claiming that Israel “has been carrying out Genocide since [Palestine’s] inception”.
Which is ludicrous considering they had independent elections, and a population boom of going from 600k to 5 million in 100 years.
Israel came into existence in 1948. Palestine was the land before that.
Palestine was the land before that, true. Not the nation, though. That was also established in the same UN resolution that created Israel.
So, from what you’re saying I understand that you’re the proponent of returning the entire area back to Iran? They’re the closest we can get to Persia, I think.
Bull fucking shit. Israel is stolen land, taken during the Nakba after Palestinians were kind enough to welcome Jewish refugees from Europe. It has no fucking right to exist any more than the US or any other conquering nation does.
Israelis lived in that area for at least 3000 years.
Yeah, except the word changed to Palestinians. Some converted to Christianity, most converted to Islam, and plenty of ethnic mixing happened between the beginning of the diaspora and the nakhba, on both sides.
Yup! And since both nations want independence, why would only one be allowed to have it?
The problem is that the world has been completely blind to the crimes Israel has been committing, slowly encroaching on Palestinian land.
What needs to happen is the removal of current heads of Israeli state, ideally by execution for all the crimes against humanity they committed, a new democratic election on both sides of the fence (reminder: Palestinians enjoyed their last election in 2008 when Hamas took over and installed religious dictatorship), and then the establishment of a UN-coordinated force, ideally culturally neutral (like Japan/China/Korea) to ensure that the borders are respected.
One is a nation other is a settler colony.
Which is which? Palestinians didn’t exist as a nation (it was “the region of Palestine”, not a country) until the exact same UN resolution that created Israel. Which, fun fact, does have historical records of existence in the region… So? Which ones are the settlers?
European Jews are the settlers.
Let me get this straight - a nation gets kicked out of their homeland, they become, effectively, wanderers, they travel through the ages through the entirety of Europe always believing they will one day return home, but… since it’s been however many generations, they now no longer have the right to return?
What’s the cut-off number of generations where you can no longer call something your home, when your ancestors were forcefully kicked out?
(also, we’re conveniently forgetting about the 100-300k Israelis/Jews that remained in current-day Israel and the Region of Palestine throughout those generations, I’m just wondering what’s your take on the right to live in a place)
European Jews didn’t, don’t quote religious books or Persians, Egyptian have more rights over that region than Jews.
Religious books…? Are you confusing the Kingdom of Israel with the biblical “United Kingdom of Israel”?
The existence of Kingdom of Israel is an ongoing academic debate and has no connection to the current Israel if at all they existed.
The land was Egyptian before Jewish. So they have a more ancient right over that land. Maybe Syrians before them.
Yeah, so you’re confusing the Kingdom of Israel, which is mentioned in Assyrian records, on the Moabite Stone, etc., etc.
Yup. Which just highlights how stupid the whole “someone has the right to a territory because of [historical reasons]” is.
Reality is super simple: the right to a territory belongs to those who can obtain that territory and hold it. That’s how it always worked throughout history, even if we’re now trying to sugarcoat things by pretending that’s not the case. If russia didn’t fumble the full-scale war with Ukraine as bad as they had, and if Ukraine didn’t receive the support they did, within the next 5-10 years nobody would be talking about “occupied Ukraine”, it’d be just “russia”.
Poland moved a couple hundred kilometers to the west after the Second World War, Germany’s borders are completely different than they used to be, Great Britain lost its colonies - nobody gives a fuck about any “ancient right”, it’s literally only about power (both in terms of military capability, as well as diplomatic ability to negotiate and resolve conflicts).
And with that out of the way, the reality is this: Palestine received a nation state in the exact same UN resolution that created Israel. One has the exact same right to exist as the other - their diplomatic effort gave them these nations and that’s that.
What now needs to happen is for the UN to actually enforce its mandates by securing the borders at least as long as it takes Palestine to rebuild.
Israel in its present avatar didn’t exist before the British have it to Europeans. The land was taken from Arabs who were living under the Ottoman rules. There were Jews living there but were a minority.
Europeans just exported their problems elsewhere and are now propping it up.
Yet it allowed for the theocratic colony of Israel to continue is genocide.
The only way to ensure peace in Middle East is for Israel to not exist and all the Europeans go back to their own countries.
Yeah, same with Palestine.
Who took the land from Jews/Israelis.
Because they were persecuted and forced into exile, yes.
You keep using that word, but I don’t think you understand what it means.
Palestine went from a population of 600k to 5 million in the span of 100 years. That’s a faster growth than Denmark. If that’s “genocide”, then, my god, it has to be the most incompetent genocide in the history of our species, considering it worked backwards.
Or, and hear me out, a strong contingent of culturally-neutral forces that ensure no settlers take land from Palestine, the prosecution of said settlers, the proper establishment of the rule of law and democracy in Palestine (last elections in 2008 due to Hamas’ theocratic authoritarianism).
And, please, stop with this ridiculous “Europeans”. Or, if you don’t, I’ll start calling Palestinians “Iranians”. Makes as much sense. Deal?
To which date, specifically, should we reset nations and borders, in your opinion?
Before the British divided the Arab lands and gave it to Europeans.
Pedantic argument. There’s no specific date to “reset”. You and I are both well aware of who is an oppressor and who the land was stolen from.
Land back to all Native peoples, fuck the Eurocentric hegemony created by European imperialism.
Who are the natives, in this instance?
The Kingdom of Israel existed there up until 720 BCE. Israelis and Jews lived in that area effectively “always”, just like the Palestinians. Returning “land back to all Native peoples” would mean exactly what we did - establishing a Palestine AND an Israel.
What’s missing right now is the UN to get off its arse and ensure that they remain separate, without Israel encroaching on Palestinian land.
It ended is existence in 720 BCE. Current State of Israel has no relation to it other than name. Majority of the Jews staying there today are Europeans.
Majority of Jews are Europeans because they got kicked out of their home in the 15th-16th century.
But now we have a conundrum! You’re saying that “State of Israel has no relation to it other than name”, and that is - from what I understand - your argument towards there being no Israel as the solution to the issues, right?
But that means Palestine should be eliminated too considering it never existed as a nation at all in the entire history of humanity.
So, which is it? Are we keeping your methodology and giving back the entire territory to Iran, or are we agreeing that it’s stupid fucking methodology?
Eat a dick
No, it’s a valid question, Jews also used to live in that land millennia ago.
I used to live in your house. Give back to me now.
Did you used to own the house and then were kicked out of it by force by a third party that never owned even part of the house?
1947
Why that date specifically?
There was no Israel before that. Kingdom of Israel has ceased to exist thousands of years before.
What’s the cut-off time in years for when the existence of something classifies as “there was X before that” vs “there was no X before that”?
OK, I see you’re a bit slower than some. No worries! Let’s try this: what makes 1947 a more significant date than, say, 750 BCE?
You’re nowhere near as clever as you think you are
Hey, at least I know I can discuss things without mindlessly downvoting the opinions I don’t agree with! Unlike some of us. ;)
States don’t have a right to exist, especially ethno supremacist ones.