Anyone who expects a system based on collaboration and compromise to bend 100% to their will was a fucking miserable entitled jackass to play with as kids.
Agreed but the top comment of this reply chain is so disingenuous. It’s like someone posting “Hey guys, its my birthday!”, then they pop in to be contrarian and say “don’t forget you are going to die someday.”
I don’t get why they left a comment like this. Are they upset Mamdani won? If they actually like Mamdani they could have said “I hope the American people continue to support people like Mamdani if or when it comes out that they aren’t some perfect superhero, and are just human like all of us”.
Specifically the comment focuses on the left and attacks them as being non-compromising, and acts like this is a fact, when the left has shown its self to be quite compromising time and time again.
Remember its not left vs right, but top vs bottom and the only attacks done should be on the top. Anything else is divisive and helps the billionaires stay in power.
This just reads like a bad faith interpretation of anyone on the left who might have ideological differences between themselves and Mamdani. That doesn’t mean they aren’t pragmatic. For example, if you believe that our current government cannot be reformed then compromise with the right wing is often the least pragmatic way to bring about change. Pretending that this means you’re making perfect the enemy of the good either means you’re being disingenuous or you just don’t understand the perspective you’re critiquing.
Well your argument sounds like ones I’ve heard 1000x over defending elected officials like AOC whenever they do something like vote to fund Israel’s iron dome or forcibly stop a railway strike. The problem is, trading favors and votes is the kind of game that only works when you have a network of wealthy benefactors. If you think that these types of compromises are necessary, it likely means that you have some degree of blind faith in the American political system.
You’re arguing against a caricature of the left wing critiques levied at politicians like AOC or Mamdani. You’re ignoring how those actions, which are frankly not isolated, are indicative of a very different perspective and theory of change than many on the left have. Pretending that any other theory of change is actually just black and white moralism is an incredibly bad faith way to argue. Honestly, it’s just a ridiculous perspective to have when you would be hard pressed to find similar critiques levied at electeds like say Rashida Talib.
Your comment reads as a bad faith interpretation of their post.
It doesn’t matter if it is or not. That’s how it reads.
(stop guessing at the motivations of a poster and deal with their points pragmatically, otherwise it’s all just a fantasy… you have no insight into them (or anyone else)… you are not the “faith decider”)
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and oh look it replies like a duck too, forgive me for thinking it’s a duck. Maybe take your own advice and engage with my points instead of getting so needlessly defensive.
The left is unrepresented in this two party system. Why do Blue states still use First-past-the-post voting if democrats are so concerned with 3rd party voters and the spoiler effect? Republicans arent stopping this state level legislation from being passed.
the politically correct thing is very often not the morally correct thing and it sucks. it’s the reason i am not in politics and also not in prison (i think i would probably set something on fire)
Ok we do have to compromise, but the compromises are what got us into this mess in the first place. Like you can’t compromise with capitalism because the compromise was either genocide really fast or slower genocide. Sometimes the compromise will get you nowhere.
Ok well let’s take healthcare for example. If you compromise with capitalism, you can’t eliminate insurance companies. Even tho socialized medicine has proven to be a better model for decades, compromise with capitalism got us Obamacare which is technically better than the previous model but it didn’t make anything cheaper and it was prone to subsequent administrations gutting it.
Or compromising with the military industrial complex, means we still build weapons and fight wars and fund genocides. What exactly can the compromise be?
You can go through multiple industries and you’ll find that as soon as you say “someone still needs to profit” then the game is over. Whatever you were trying to fix suddenly becomes secondary to profit.
Well one of the ways we can liberate our minds is to get off mainstream social media. So kudos to us for doing that.
I think the next steps is to create the conditions for revolution to be successful. The no 1 thing I think is to BUILD COMMUNITY. I have been volunteering at free clinics for the last few years. I try to have gatherings when I can. Then The next most important thing is to organize, so join an organization that offers something that fits. I recently was offered a job at a coop. I’ve attended some DSA events, trying to figure out a way to fit more of that in my life. The next most important thing is to build your independence from big tech. So get off their services as much as you can.
You’re right, were not ready to take to the streets, even tho that is the real thing that needs to happen. So we as individuals can help build our independence, organize and believe in community. We can get there, it’ll take a long time, but just because it seems like a big task doesn’t mean we can’t get there eventually.
We cannot push this all at once, all we can do is nudge the needle back towards progressivism until it starts to choke capital.
That won’t work. When has it ever worked? Labor right were won through violent strikes often times involving shootouts with the police. Civil rights were won with mass public disobedience alongside the looming threat of violent confrontation. Dr. King derided the same comfortable liberals you seem to want to appeal to. I don’t think it’s realistic to expect incremental progress through compromise and insider politics when that’s never been an effective strategy.
Of course I don’t discount the reality that we are not in place where enough people are ready and willing to make the sacrifices necessary to put capital on the defense. That said, inequality is rising, living conditions are degrading, and the US government is becoming increasingly brazen about the ways in which it intends to sell out its own citizens to the highest bidder. The path of decline that we are on will create a mass of people with not much left to lose. That’s when there is real opportunity to organize people into something capable of turning the tide.
Basically we can prepare for that eventuality or we can have a blind faith in a handful of well intentioned yet painfully impotent elected officials. That’s not to say we should sit out elections but rather said elections need to be a tool for organizing disaffected people rather than a promise to change the system from the inside.
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Anybody who expects a100% perfect politician is a fool
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Anyone who expects a system based on collaboration and compromise to bend 100% to their will was a fucking miserable entitled jackass to play with as kids.
Right. More than 0% would be nice, though.
Agreed but the top comment of this reply chain is so disingenuous. It’s like someone posting “Hey guys, its my birthday!”, then they pop in to be contrarian and say “don’t forget you are going to die someday.”
I don’t get why they left a comment like this. Are they upset Mamdani won? If they actually like Mamdani they could have said “I hope the American people continue to support people like Mamdani if or when it comes out that they aren’t some perfect superhero, and are just human like all of us”.
Specifically the comment focuses on the left and attacks them as being non-compromising, and acts like this is a fact, when the left has shown its self to be quite compromising time and time again.
Remember its not left vs right, but top vs bottom and the only attacks done should be on the top. Anything else is divisive and helps the billionaires stay in power.
This just reads like a bad faith interpretation of anyone on the left who might have ideological differences between themselves and Mamdani. That doesn’t mean they aren’t pragmatic. For example, if you believe that our current government cannot be reformed then compromise with the right wing is often the least pragmatic way to bring about change. Pretending that this means you’re making perfect the enemy of the good either means you’re being disingenuous or you just don’t understand the perspective you’re critiquing.
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Well your argument sounds like ones I’ve heard 1000x over defending elected officials like AOC whenever they do something like vote to fund Israel’s iron dome or forcibly stop a railway strike. The problem is, trading favors and votes is the kind of game that only works when you have a network of wealthy benefactors. If you think that these types of compromises are necessary, it likely means that you have some degree of blind faith in the American political system.
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You’re arguing against a caricature of the left wing critiques levied at politicians like AOC or Mamdani. You’re ignoring how those actions, which are frankly not isolated, are indicative of a very different perspective and theory of change than many on the left have. Pretending that any other theory of change is actually just black and white moralism is an incredibly bad faith way to argue. Honestly, it’s just a ridiculous perspective to have when you would be hard pressed to find similar critiques levied at electeds like say Rashida Talib.
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Can you elaborate?
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Your comment reads as a bad faith interpretation of their post.
It doesn’t matter if it is or not. That’s how it reads.
(stop guessing at the motivations of a poster and deal with their points pragmatically, otherwise it’s all just a fantasy… you have no insight into them (or anyone else)… you are not the “faith decider”)
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and oh look it replies like a duck too, forgive me for thinking it’s a duck. Maybe take your own advice and engage with my points instead of getting so needlessly defensive.
This is not about just one political opinion it something common in all political opinions.
what? there is many good movies and TV-shows that correctly reflect (sometimes even make feel) politics
“The Left needs to fall in love; The Right simply falls in line.”
The left is unrepresented in this two party system. Why do Blue states still use First-past-the-post voting if democrats are so concerned with 3rd party voters and the spoiler effect? Republicans arent stopping this state level legislation from being passed.
Is your question rhetorical or are you actually asking me because you don’t know the answer?
the politically correct thing is very often not the morally correct thing and it sucks. it’s the reason i am not in politics and also not in prison (i think i would probably set something on fire)
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Ok we do have to compromise, but the compromises are what got us into this mess in the first place. Like you can’t compromise with capitalism because the compromise was either genocide really fast or slower genocide. Sometimes the compromise will get you nowhere.
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Ok well let’s take healthcare for example. If you compromise with capitalism, you can’t eliminate insurance companies. Even tho socialized medicine has proven to be a better model for decades, compromise with capitalism got us Obamacare which is technically better than the previous model but it didn’t make anything cheaper and it was prone to subsequent administrations gutting it.
Or compromising with the military industrial complex, means we still build weapons and fight wars and fund genocides. What exactly can the compromise be?
You can go through multiple industries and you’ll find that as soon as you say “someone still needs to profit” then the game is over. Whatever you were trying to fix suddenly becomes secondary to profit.
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Hey man you can try to compromise withthis system your whole life, it’s not going to get better.
Once you realize that, the next conclusion is obvious.
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Well one of the ways we can liberate our minds is to get off mainstream social media. So kudos to us for doing that.
I think the next steps is to create the conditions for revolution to be successful. The no 1 thing I think is to BUILD COMMUNITY. I have been volunteering at free clinics for the last few years. I try to have gatherings when I can. Then The next most important thing is to organize, so join an organization that offers something that fits. I recently was offered a job at a coop. I’ve attended some DSA events, trying to figure out a way to fit more of that in my life. The next most important thing is to build your independence from big tech. So get off their services as much as you can.
You’re right, were not ready to take to the streets, even tho that is the real thing that needs to happen. So we as individuals can help build our independence, organize and believe in community. We can get there, it’ll take a long time, but just because it seems like a big task doesn’t mean we can’t get there eventually.
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That won’t work. When has it ever worked? Labor right were won through violent strikes often times involving shootouts with the police. Civil rights were won with mass public disobedience alongside the looming threat of violent confrontation. Dr. King derided the same comfortable liberals you seem to want to appeal to. I don’t think it’s realistic to expect incremental progress through compromise and insider politics when that’s never been an effective strategy.
Of course I don’t discount the reality that we are not in place where enough people are ready and willing to make the sacrifices necessary to put capital on the defense. That said, inequality is rising, living conditions are degrading, and the US government is becoming increasingly brazen about the ways in which it intends to sell out its own citizens to the highest bidder. The path of decline that we are on will create a mass of people with not much left to lose. That’s when there is real opportunity to organize people into something capable of turning the tide.
Basically we can prepare for that eventuality or we can have a blind faith in a handful of well intentioned yet painfully impotent elected officials. That’s not to say we should sit out elections but rather said elections need to be a tool for organizing disaffected people rather than a promise to change the system from the inside.
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