I hope folks read more than just the title. So im watching a show with a gun exchange and the person has to reload and you can see they are nervous to get the new magazine in so they can fire again and it made me think. Do any guns have two magazine where you can either manually switch to the other magazine or maybe automatically do it when the first one is empty. With the idea that if you need to fire while in the middle of changing out the empty magazine you could. I feel like this seem obvious enough that someone must have tried it. I mean considering the crazy gun things I have seen. Since im not aware of anything I figure if it has been done it had an issue or was just not useful enough to make worth it. So for the folks that are really into guns, especially wierd protoype ones. Has there every been anything like this?
There are at least a few. There’s the little villar perosa submachine gun from ww1 that everyone remembers from Battlefield 1, although that’s basically two guns in one body. As far as something modern that truly is just one gun with two magazines, the Keltec KSG shotgun uses two tubes side by side that can be toggled between with a switch. Not only does it double the gun’s capacity without adding any extra length, but it also allows you to load each tube with a different kind of shot and switch between the two at will. Adds a good amount of weight though.
There was another one in Battlefield 1 - an experimental machine gun with two magazines, but only one could be engaged at a time. You would pull one out slightly and push the other one in. The idea was to be able to switch between two different types of ammo for increased versatility (e. g. regular ammo against infantry and incendiary for anti-air). As with most weapons featured in Battlefield 1, I think this was a prototype that never saw any real action.
Yes, the Kel-Tec KSG bullpup shotgun has two magazines and a manual control to choose between them. In addition to twice the capacity of a single tube magazine of the same length, it offers the user the option to switch between two types of ammunition - a more significant advantage for a shotgun than most firearms due to the variety of ammunition available.
Sounds ideal for home defense!
Unfortunately they’re pretty failure prone; they’ve got some small plastic parts that tend to break. Being pump guns, they’re also at risk of short-stroking, where you don’t fully complete a cycle, and jam your shotgun.
It’s a great idea, KelTec just needs to iron out the bugs.
A failure prone KelTec?! I for one am shocked, shocked!
It’s a great idea, KelTec just needs to iron out the bugs.
Congratulations! You just described the entire premise of Kel-Tec firearms corp.
Real Kel-Tec fans only buy gen 3 or higher. XD They’ve usually got all the bugs worked out by then, while the remaining inherent flaws are part of their charm.
Also the https://stdgun.com/dp-12-2/ DP 12 from Standard Manufacturing. It alternates both shells from each magazine and is even more unreliable than a Kel-tec KSG
There’s also the Gilboa DBR AR15.
Where does the additional ammo get stored? I only see one tube. Interesting, however it works.
Where does the additional ammo get stored? I only see one tube. Interesting, however it works.
Very nice. Unfortunately completely illegal in NY. Thanks for the info, though.
…But what happens when your second magazine runs out? What then?
Let’s say that I have a gun that normally has a seven round magazine. I add a second magazine. Now I’ve got 14 rounds! …But why not just make a 14 round magazine? And now when I run out, I have to change two magazines. (FWIW, normal capacity for a semi-auto 9mm is 13-18 rounds, and 15 is about average. 7 is the OEM capacity of all traditional .45ACP 1911 pistols.)
IMO adding a secondary magazine, rather than increasing the capacity of an existing magazine, adds needless complexity. Added complexity increases the odds of failure. I hate to say that this is a skill issue, but, well, changing a magazine quickly is a skill that you should practice if you want to be proficient in practical shooting. (By “practical shooting”, I mean things like IPSC, IDPA, USPSA, PCSL, three gun, steel challenge, self-defense, and war. You shouldn’t need to worry about rapid magazine changes for hunting or long range competitions.)
The one argument for a multi-magazine setup would be ammo versatility. E.g. One magazine holds FMJ or the like for soft targets while the second holds armor piercing for hard targets or explosive/incendiary for anti-material. It’s not a great argument for it, and it’s probably why we don’t see it all that often. But, the good idea fairy is a regular visitor to the arms manufacturing industry.
What if one jams
“Tap rack bang” (below copied from wikipedia, and I’m just as surprised as you are that they have an article on this.)
Tap, rack, bang (TRB) or tap, rack, and go (TRG) is jargon for the response to a failure to fire in a firearm with a removable magazine.[1] This is designated as an "Immediate Action" and involves no investigation of the cause (due to being under fire in a combat or defensive situation), but is effective for common failures, such as defective or improperly seated ammunition magazines.[2][3] Tap – to tap the magazine. This is to ensure that the magazine is properly/completely inserted in the firearm so that it feeds properly. As typically taught in tactical firearms courses, the "tap" is applying pressure on the floor plate of the magazine to lock it into place. It does not constitute 'smacking' the magazine, as this can irreversibly damage the magazine's lip.[4] Rack – pull back sharply and then quickly release the ~~cocking~~ charging handle/slide of the firearm.[5] This will eject a misfired round, which could be a possible cause of the stoppage, and to chamber the next round. Bang/Go – aiming and firing the firearm again.[5] If the firearm again does not fire or fails to extract the spent round, it may indicate a more serious problem with the firearm, requiring maintenance. For instance, if the firing pin is too lightly striking the primer on a cartridge, it may indicate a worn-out spring or firing pin. Some failures, such as a "stovepipe", require more complicated maintenance that requires investigation of the underlying problem, or remedial action.[2] With issues such as a squib load or hang fire, the "tap, rack, bang" procedure should not be used.[6][7]And of course
if the firing pin is too lightly striking the primer on a cartridge, it may indicate a worn-out spring or firing pin. Some failures, such as a “stovepipe”, require more complicated maintenance that requires investigation of the underlying problem, or remedial action.[2] With issues such as a squib load or hang fire, the “tap, rack, bang” procedure should not be used.[6][7]
A second mag wouldn’t fix any of that, either, so adding one wouldn’t be a solution.
Finally if the problem is the mag (feed lips or worn spring), a tactical reload (removing the mag, retaining it, and swapping to a full one) would be the move if you can, or just lose the mag and insert a new one if you can’t.
The real solution to OP’s question though is “train reloads,” before you get into a gun fight. In a situation with high stress you want to have practiced it enough that it becomes muscle memory and you can do it without really thinking about it. You can train it in your bedroom without ammo no less, no excuse not to train reloads. If you’re really bad you can add an aftermarket magwell to many guns that make it easier to reload (at the cost of concealability).
Stovepipes are pretty common if you limp-wrist your pistol. Similarly, some pistols don’t go back into battery if you don’t keep a rock-solid grip on the gun (I know for certain that this is an issue with the Walther PDP-F). Hang fires are something I wouldn’t worry about in a gun fight; if it doesn’t go bang, immediately cycle the slide and drop the round. Squibs on the other hand… If you get one of those, well, you aren’t shooting with that gun any more, not until you can clear it. If it goes pop instead of BANG, then you definitely should not try a second time.
Honestly, if you, as a non-cop/non-military person are in a gunfight, the odds that you will need to reload are incredibly low. The biggest reason to carry a spare magazine along with your carry gun is so that you can drop your mag and swap out if you have some kind of failure. But even that is highly unlikely, assuming that you have bought a reputable firearm in the first place (e.g., not KelTec, Taurus, or a Sig P320), and have kept it maintained. Keep in mind that gun fights outside of police standoffs and military engagements are almost always very, very fast; like, less than five seconds most of the time.
It’s not really worth it. A lot more complexity for the trigger and firing mechanisms, barrel alignment; etc. Weight is also a concern with any carry weapon. There were a couple of weapons in history that tried a dual mag setup
MP40I
The Burton
AF2011 (More double barrel but does fire simultaneously)There’s also the DIY jungle style
coupled magazines, refers to detachable box magazines, and thereof, that are fixed together side by side, for example, with tape, or purpose made magazine clamps, also called magazine couplers. The spare magazine may be pointing downwards in relation to the one fitted to the weapon, as to keep the feeding lips clear for insertion into the weapon.
In general these days, belt fed weapons are used for more capacity where needed.
And extra large magazines. You can find glock magazines with 50 or 100 bullets.
I got turned on the mp401 which was what I was thinking. The whole point to me is to people to fire while reloading if you need to whereas the tape two together is just about faster reloading which allows it faster every other magazine swap. Im going to check out the burton so thanks for another thing.
If you’re going to be firing while reloading, you aren’t going to hit much. Practicing your reload can get it to a speed where the time of the loss of your ability to fire is almost indistinguishable from the time it takes you to get your gun accurately back on target after a shot.
yeah im not looking to use practical things myself it was more an idle thought while watching a show. Curious though. Would you never fire a shot unless you where accurately back on traget. Like to dissuade someone from motion who was armed?
Depends, if we’re in the jungles of vietnam? Sure, suppressive fire, still need to retain ammo yourself though.
In a self defense situation in an American city? Bad idea, you’re responsible for every round that leaves your barrel, if you hit a bystander while wildly winging shots at an attacker you’re fucked and will be going to prison. Unless you’re a cop, it would seem.
Well in most of the movie situations its an area where people are far enough away that the gunshots don’t bring police and usually there are some family or such that is in a known direction usually behind them a ways that they are out of the fray. So its an idealized situation. I actually thought more pistol as soldiers will mostly be in a team where hopefully only one person is reloading at a time. I assumed that is why you would hear individual ones shouting reloading sometimes (again in movies). granted if separated and down to one I could see it being useful again. I mean im guessing given the 40i never took off so the idea is out there that it must not be all that useful.
Note, the designation is
MP40/Inot1:P May help your research.luckily the search still found it. Its actually pretty much exactly what I was thinking but with a pistol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl4IBsqS2gY
(Not a real gun, but thought you’d appreciate)
Not exactly what you’re looking for, but still fun.
Here’s Scott shooting it
This is the first thing I thought of too, would be neat to shoot once, super impractical.
