Meanwhile I’m here struggling to remember when exactly Christians cared about what Jesus told them to do.
Broad strokes… I know plenty of people who are Christians who attend church and hold very progressive views. I’m sorry that your experience with believers has been so poor. Please do try to remember that nobody talks about the person who isn’t bothering anyone with their beliefs.
No those people just are friends and enabling the pedos of their local church. You are the people you associate with and the church is the biggest pedo organization on the planet.
Jesus said nothing about people transitioning and gender, but IIRC early and medieval Christian scholars condemned bodily modifications because the body was God’s creation and property and it ought to be kept intact for resurrection.
The one who can accept this should accept it.
I mean… That’s a start. But what about the ones that can’t seem to accept it?
I don’t know enough about transgender people in ancient times to argue about the definition of “eununch”. Thanks for your contribution, though.
Matthew was written about 80 CE. Nero was emperor until 68. Nero rather famously took a eunuch as a “wife”, Sporus, which most in the Roman empire and likely the author of Matthew would have been aware of.
Christian scholars condemned bodily modifications because they wanted to control your body instead.
Always has been.
Yeah, that’s basically all of major religions. Their rationale was resurrection and the rapture.
I would like to know how, at least in some Christian variations, that you can’t have tats or piercings when the text I remember covering the subject was more like, “don’t burn your corpse, you’re gonna need it when the time comes.” If I had tats or whatever, I’d still have an intact body to be resurrected. 🤷♂️
My guess is that someone was jealous of his fellow’s tats and it all snowballed from there
The Bible is an inconsistent mess that people can read anything into. Referring to it is an exercise in cherry-picking. It has good Jesus parts, but there’s the whole rest of the morally bankrupt nonsense with evil god shit:
- vengeful god who
- commands genocide, demands worship, & creates evil
- punishes disobedience with curses, plagues, cuckoldry, cannibalism to eat your own children, slavery, infighting
- endorses genocide, killing innocents, slavery, selling daughters to sex slavery, rape, forced marriage of victim to their rapist, inequality of women
- weird purity codes against pork & shellfish; mixing fibers, crops, animals; particular facial hairstyles; tattoos; body modification; etc.
- an afterlife that punishes nonbelievers who do good
all while claiming to be the final word of god. Arguing for good while referring to the Bible requires willfully overlooking all of that: it isn’t good.
I was never raised Christian due to my family being a mix of Catholics and Protestants who had all mostly given up on church going cept forbguberals and weddings…
The only exposure I ever gad to the Bible was reading comics of a Lego rendition of it called the brick testament. (Its actually creatively genius)
You’ve basically described everything i remember about it to a T
The Brick Bible was anti-christian propoganda
- an afterlife that punishes nonbelievers who do good
Here’s a fun fact: that one is not in there. The Bible is consistent on that, at least. Death is death, but those who who are judged to be “righteous” will be given eternal life in a newly crafted reality. Everyone else goes back to dead.
Yep, the wages of sin being death. Not hell, not punishment, sinners merely remain dead.
I checked before writing the last comment, and it’s mentioned a few times. Nonbelievers are punished in the afterlife.
Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Only “born-again”/baptized enter heaven
John 3:3–5
- Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
- Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
- Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
and believers should not perish, but get everlasting life.
John 3:14–16
- And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
- That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
- For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
As for those who do perish, that happens in hell.
Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Nonbelievers are denied entry.
Matthew 10:33
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
This all appears in the New Testament.
The older, Jewish scriptures don’t mention hell. However, Deuteronomy 13 is all about Moses instructing the Israelites to murder heretics. Moral bankruptcy.
None of the things you just shared refer to the pagan concept of an afterlife. Read them again in the context of what I wrote. What the Christian scripture says — very clearly — is in line with Pharisaic Judaism. You die, there is a resurrection for judgement, and the unrighteous are destroyed while the righteous are “saved” from death and given another, “perfect” life.
It’s especially telling that you used a translation that literally has the word “hell” in it, which is a deliberate mistranslation. The word in question there is “gehenna” which carries a very specific meaning that does not, in any way, infer an afterlife. In fact, the unrighteous are repeatedly equated with trash, which is disposed of by burning. Destruction is final and eternal. The idea of the afterlife as a literal place was lifted from Hellenism as Rome gradually assimilated Christianity into it’s existing religious frameworks.
So the righteous are given another life after death, but it’s not an afterlife? So glad I can just semantics myself some salvation.
To which non-existent god do I pray for people to learn the difference between its and it’s?
Maybe Thoth or Hermes. Odin discovered the Runes, so a case could also be made for him.
If you pray to any of them, be sure your patron deity Momus doesn’t find out.
Touché
😘
But only believers can be “righteous”:
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:/Not of works, lest any man should boast. -Ephesians 2:8-9
While James pointed out that if your behavior doesn’t reflect belief, then you don’t actually believe. The point is that being showy doesn’t score you points, living by the principles — because you believe they are right — is all that matters.
Judaism has a concept for the Righteous Gentile. You don’t have to believe in their god, if you live by the Noachide moral precepts, even unintentionally, then you are righteous.
- vengeful god who
- commands genocide, demands worship, & creates evil
- punishes disobedience with curses, plagues, cuckoldry, cannibalism to eat your own children, slavery, infighting
Punishing evil- what’s the problem?
God doesn’t create evil- that’s the work of man. Man has free will. If you think God demanding worship is bad but also giving free will is bad, then you’re a contradiction.
- endorses genocide, killing innocents, slavery, selling daughters to sex slavery, rape, forced marriage of victim to their rapist,
Where?
inequality of women
In what way? If you think women and men having different roles is bad- that’s coming from your own opinion based on your culture. Would you judge an Arabian or African culture for believing in different roles? On what basis, apart from ingrained white supremacism?
- weird purity codes against pork & shellfish; mixing fibers, crops, animals; particular facial hairstyles; tattoos; body modification; etc.
That was to give the early israelites a national identity to be set apart. It’s irrelevant now as the purpose has been fulfilled.
- an afterlife that punishes nonbelievers who do good
No, there isn’t. Nobody does good, not even one.
“All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.”
That includes sin my guy.
- vengeful god who
I agree, but they don’t deserve to be called fundamentalists the way they revise the bible
All what this does is whitewash christian fundamentalist atrocities, similarly to how the “um, ackchually, the nazis were socialists” is now giving a green light to the far right of today to repeat hystorical mistakes all across the world.
Well, they consider the old testament the fundamentals.
Bo they fucking don’t. If they did football would be a far less popular sport in the US, for example. They care about a few specific things that fit their (leader’s) politics.
This.
There were 2 big things that cover 90% of things Jesus said in the Bible.
- love people. Full stop. Yes, them too.
- don’t listen to hypocrites that make up religious rules and tell you you have to obey them.
The other 10% includes Jesus declaring that you can’t conduct trade in a temple, and beating merchants with a whip.
I ain’t Christian but I will happily do the Christlike act of beating a priest with a whip.
Also something I want to note Jesus made the whip meaning that wasn’t just rage that was true fury that made him dedicate a day towards crafting his instrument of retribution. Which is just metal.
When you’re so furious you go home and craft for entire day, sleep, wake up and you’re still mad enough to whip ass.
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Remember, God doesn’t make mistakes. So if God made you trans and put you here in this time where you have the options to explore that, well… seems pretty clear to me.
It’s either all part of God’s plan, or none of it is.
Wait, this depends on how someone views it… If they’re a fucking idiot with a child’s understanding, a binary reality means it requires altering someones’ body to transition. That’s the only perspective where it’s “modifying” someones’ body.
If you’re an adult with a developed brain and a basic highschool understanding of genetics, it’s not exactly modifying ones’ body, but merely influencing hormones to reflect how someone feels.
If you’re an adult with a collegiate level of understanding, then people ‘feeling’ like a different gender is the fucking tip of the iceberg, and genetics fucking demonstrates that it’s way more complex.
What is said in the bible, is that reality is more complex than dummies can understand, so leave judging up to God.
I like how dickheads pick and choose which parts of the old testament to follow and which bits of the new to ignore as suits their bigotry and hate
Ecclesiastes 9:5 says dead is dead, directly contradicting everything about any afterlives or heaven. Christians pick and choose which parts to follow because they have to, it’s literally impossible to follow the entire thing.
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
It also goes on to say go have fun and live your life. That does not some compatible with the strict puritan Christianity most seem to follow.
Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.
[…]
Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun.Yeah,
It’s almost all though it’s all bullshit or something… 🤔
Even funnier when they never took any religious studies class or anything.
I hate gatekeeping too but “it’s up to interpretation” used to imply they know fundamentals of philosophy and have the necessary historic context knowledge to form opinions.
Hell, at some point they would have to learn latin or hebrew just to not have their arguments ignored instantly.
Meanwhile these people make fun of college philosophy lectures and only know history about WW2 and how germany could have “won” according to that one 4chan user.
If they heard anyone speaking hebrew they would call the police because “it sounded Arab.”
This reminds of a similar pet peeve - people who hate on the humanities but worship pseudo-scientific economic ideology (aka capitalist religion).
Those people need a philosophy class more than most.
Well, why else do you think religions persist? Evolutionary pressure has selected it because it’s useful.
“Persist” is a funny word to use when you’re talking about human history on an evolutionary level, seeing as how we’ve evolved very little from our conception in Africa only a few hundred thousand years ago, practically the blink of an eye on the evolutionary scale. Even if religion has been around from the beginning of our species, it hasn’t really “persisted” very long at all.
As far as religion’s “use” in an evolutionary sense, the only thing that evolution selects for is more babies. If you have more babies than your peers, you’re more evolutionarily “fit,” it’s that simple. You could then say that religions that encourage their members to have more children are useful, but again, that’s only if you think the most important thing in the life of a human is for them to have more babies. Most people would say other things are more important when it comes to human life, which would make evolution useless as a metric to determine the “use” of religion.
People not following any particular religion get laid at roughly the same rates as followers of religion. So there would be no evolutionary pressure involved there.
Well why do you think flat earthism persists? hur dur evolution!!!
I didn’t know most people are flat earthers. Do you have a source for that? There’s no real evolutionary pressure for or against a flat earth, it looks flat, for the vast majority of human existence people barely traveled beyond their birth place, or knew how to read.
OTOH, religious people far outnumber logical people, so … why? You got something better than “hur dur” to explain that?
It was, but we’ve outgrown it
The mark of civilisation is to be better than our base nature
Religion has had its day. Now it’s all about power and money (it pretty much always was, but I’m trying to be generous)
“Man, how much waters did I have last night”
-Jesus (probably)
he can’t remember because he never existed
He probably existed and if he did was most likely a great speaker but his stories are at least massively embellished.
It is generally accepted that there was a person that the stories of Jesus were based off of that existed at that time. He has as much (if not more) evidence of his existence as most historical figures from around that era. If we decided that he didn’t have enough evidence, we would have to erase the vast majority of ancient history.
Now, that doesn’t mean that stories of his miracles are accepted as historical. Those are still a matter of faith.
There is next to no evidence of Jesus Christ unless you count Christian sources, which have a bit of a bias.
The Romans for example were big on book keeping, yet no mention of Jesus can be found.
The existence of Jesus is possible, but far from certain - of course that’s something Christians don’t like to hear and the Christian church actively fights.
Not sure what you’d expect to find? 2000 year old court records from an outlying province? A long form birth certificate? His tax returns?
I mean that’s kinda the point
You really think that after 2000 years that would have survived? How long do you think papyrus lasts? And where would they have stored? The middle east is well known to be geopolitically stable
I mean this is all supporting my point
Well, I can’t remember exactly where but I know it’s in there somewhere.
Not sure you want to appeal to the contents of the Bible. I’m sure somewhere in their fairy tale being trans is a sin.
They probably couldn’t imagine such a thing to make it a sin. Evidence: because they totally would have.
God is trans by common definition; not male or female, both, neither. God is non-binary.
I completely agree that god came out as non-binary, in genesis, in terms of gender. In terms of biological sex, yahweh is male presenting (complete with bull horns and an oversized novelty cock). Despite their best efforts, the church didn’t manage to erase all the drawings from the early yahweh cult.
If those people could read that, they would be very upset
God is not trans because he doesn’t have a physical form. He could be considered nonbinary, and he does love those neopronouns He/Him
God is not trans because he doesn’t have a physical form. He could be considered nonbinary, and he does love those neopronouns He/Him
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Cringe take that is factually wrong and out of step with modern, evidence -based medicine and research. Educate yourself before talking, otherwise people will think you’re stupid.
Bad take. What are they forcing you to do? Say him / her instead of her / him? Oh how difficult. If I legally changed my name from Derrick to Dennis are you gonna moan at that too? “Stop trying to be someone else”. Idiot.
We’re really stretching here to create division.
