And? So is where I grew up in the southern US. There are states I can’t legally visit anymore if I want to piss in a public restroom. That doesn’t mean I’m okay with bombing most of the hospitals, schools, and homes there and killing tens of thousands of civilians. Anyone OK with that because they’re bigoted in some way has a fucking moral deficiency.
This doesn’t make any sense - if anything it’s backwards. being oppressed doesn’t give anyone a free pass to oppress others. That kind of twisted logic is what Israel uses to get away with murder.
Fun fact, you can’t find anywhere in my comment that says “being oppressed makes oppressing others okay” because that’s not what it says. It says that parents potentially being bigoted isn’t an excuse to blow up their fucking children.
I’ve yet to have anyone give me a satisfactory explanation for why Palestinian kids deserve to have their limbs blown off or killed for living in an area hostile to LGBT people, but the people I grew up with who are equally hostile to LGBT people don’t deserve to have their kids’ limbs blown off or killed. If the answer is “American children are simply worth more than Palestinian children” then they should just come out and say it, but all I ever get is bleating about the same shit I already addressed.
I’ve yet to have anyone give me a satisfactory explanation for why Palestinian kids deserve to have their limbs blown off or killed for living in an area hostile to LGBT people
Is anyone actually saying this? What I usually see, like “queers for Palestine” is the opposite — people who excuse the extreme homophobia and misogyny in Islamic countries.
You are in a thread that started with a 1 day old account JAQing off about how transphobic Palestine is on a post about Palestinians campaigning for LGBT rights. If you don’t see that the purpose of that comment is to legitimize violence against Palestine I can’t help you.
If that’s the case then OP is an enormous jackass. That still doesn’t change the fact that queer Palestinians are absolutely being oppressed in their country (or what should be a country) and this is too often swept under the rug.
Most of the southern US won’t stone you or murder you in broad daylight though. What’s happening in Palestine and Israel is fucked up, but it doesn’t give a pass to the shit they do to the LGTBQ+ and women over there.
You’re joking right? There are literal laws all over the middle east in Islamic run nations about stoning people, just type stoning and middle east(ps this doesnt exclude Israel, they’ve arrested their own who have done it) into Google and you’re going to get a ton of results. Why is this shocking? Sharia law has it as a form of punishment.
In recent times, stoning has been a legal or customary punishment in Iran, United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Yemen, northern Nigeria, Afghanistan, Brunei, and tribal parts of Pakistan, including northwest Kurram Valley and the northwest Khwezai-Baezai region though it is rarely carried out.[1][2][3][4] In some of these countries, including Afghanistan, it has been carried out extrajudicially by militants, tribal leaders, and others.[2] In some other countries, including Nigeria and Pakistan, although stoning is a legal form of punishment, it has never been legally carried out. Stoning is condemned by human rights organizations.
So we’re talking about stoning people that’s allegedly happening due to violations of sharia law and you bring up a story from 2001 so probably during the second intifada about an incident involving illegal Israeli settlers.
I wanted to assume that you maybe just don’t know better but this is just bad faith from your side.
Hamas doesn’t really do stonings, so you appear to be correct. It looks like just about every execution committed by Hamas involved a firing squad, most often performed in public.
Hamas does torture and execute people for suspicion of being gay, though, even their own commanders.
Yeah that was my point. It’s not that Arab societies are like super progressive and Palestinian people are suddenly angels just because they are victims of genocide. It’s just that doing stonings is an archaic practice that doesn’t exist in the Levant. Like people might be very conservative and live in authoritarian societies, but they still live in the 21st century and they don’t want that shit.
That being said Hamas absolutely sucks, they are violent, corrupt dictators and while they currently are the biggest armed resistance against the ongoing colonization they shouldn’t have any place in a free Palestine.
Have you ever spent time in a middle eastern country and been visibly “out”? (I’m assuming you’re saying this in reference to existing somewhere on the lgbtq spectrum)
If the answer is no, but you have spent time in America, then I think this is a strange comment.
I’ve never been out in Russia, but I know we’re persecuted there. Same for Poland. I’ve never been out in Uganda (I haven’t been there yet), and although I’ve been to India the social circles I moved in meant I didn’t encounter anything like what the community members find there.
What I find curious is that Americans use this as a lash particularly against Islam, while at the same time a large part of their population not only supports LGBT-phobic legislation in the US, but also the evangelical community that actively lobbies for the death penalty for being LGBT in Africa. I can sympathize with the plight of Russians under the violent and murderous dictatorship of Putin without saying that the average Russian is correct on their opinion about the LGBT community. If Russia were to invade Uganda and kill 50k civilians, there would be an outcry against it and anyone who said “But they hate The Gays” would hopefully be ushered peacefully out of the room, as the two are orthogonal.
Is Israel killing 40-50k people to secure gay rights in Gaza? Or have they been supporting Hamas because it allowed them to avoid a two state solution?
Trust me - we are not strangers to the idea that other oppressed communities have parts that are still prejudiced against us. That neither justifies genocide nor does it relieve us as individuals from acknowledging such extreme moral wrongdoing. If an unarmed person shot by police turned out to have opposed marriage equality, that doesn’t excuse the moral requirement to oppose that action.
So unless you think that anti-LGBT legislation and violence justifies terrorist activity including the slaughter of civilians within the US (it does not), I respectfully suggest you review your premises.
To be clear, what I said was “I think that’s a strange comment” to someone saying “Americans want to kill me” in comparison to those in the Middle East.
If you read that back carefully, you might notice that I was careful not to say “I support the systematic and brutal murder of millions of people” - that’s because, like any sane person, I see that what Israel are doing is abhorrent. I never argued or insinuated that lgbtq people should support the genocide of bigots, but again for the sake of clarity my position is that only a literal insane person could think that. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.
So, with that said, your post that I responded to seems to imply that you think Americans (in general) hate you in the same way that many in the middle east hate you. To me, that is an incredibly naive view, and a very strange thing for someone who’s never lived there to make.
I think that it’s possible to condemn elements of a culture, in an honest way ie. that the Islamic attitude to LGB is worse than that in western countries, however bad western countries often are (for some reason I think there’s sometimes less hate for the T in Islamic culture) but pull short of supporting the worst elements of western culture (like islamophobia) and absolutely without endorsing literal war crimes.
I have. Did aid work in the region. More than once actually. I’m gay as fuck. People welcomed me as much as the rest of the group. They were some of the kindest people I’ve met. People aren’t a monolith. I’m sure there were shitty people there too, just like there are shitty people in the west. People hate me and essentialize me everywhere. How does it make sense for me to do the same?
I could have very well have had a negative experience too btw. But if I did, I still wouldn’t condemn and entire people to die because of it. I’m not a coward.
Not sure about trans acceptance in particular but judged by Arab standards Palestinians are generally right-out progressive. More in the “don’t ask, don’t tell” stage with the occasional threat by fundies.
…and that all of course is West Bank. Gaza under Hamas rule is a completely different topic as Hamas are fundies.
Why is this relevant? The article is about Palestinian activists fighting for LGBT rights for Palestine. Yes the rights of LGBT people in Palestine are not great … But that’s literally what this article is about, Palestinians fighting to make it better
Biden was born 40 years before aids happened. He’s doing good not to be grabbing em by the pussy like the rest of his generation. You want a real human, … yeah that’s just never gonna be an option sorry
Omw to adopt this line of thinking uncritically to argue that 9/11 was entirely justified and should happen again once a week throughout every republican state in the US because some of the victims would probably happen to be transphobic.
America’s transphobic as fuck though, why should I give a shit that 3,000 transphobic Americans died on September 11th? tbh, I’m glad that there’s 3,000 less transphobes in the world actually
Isn’t Palestine transphobic as fuck tho?
And? So is where I grew up in the southern US. There are states I can’t legally visit anymore if I want to piss in a public restroom. That doesn’t mean I’m okay with bombing most of the hospitals, schools, and homes there and killing tens of thousands of civilians. Anyone OK with that because they’re bigoted in some way has a fucking moral deficiency.
This doesn’t make any sense - if anything it’s backwards. being oppressed doesn’t give anyone a free pass to oppress others. That kind of twisted logic is what Israel uses to get away with murder.
Fun fact, you can’t find anywhere in my comment that says “being oppressed makes oppressing others okay” because that’s not what it says. It says that parents potentially being bigoted isn’t an excuse to blow up their fucking children.
I’ve yet to have anyone give me a satisfactory explanation for why Palestinian kids deserve to have their limbs blown off or killed for living in an area hostile to LGBT people, but the people I grew up with who are equally hostile to LGBT people don’t deserve to have their kids’ limbs blown off or killed. If the answer is “American children are simply worth more than Palestinian children” then they should just come out and say it, but all I ever get is bleating about the same shit I already addressed.
Is anyone actually saying this? What I usually see, like “queers for Palestine” is the opposite — people who excuse the extreme homophobia and misogyny in Islamic countries.
You are in a thread that started with a 1 day old account JAQing off about how transphobic Palestine is on a post about Palestinians campaigning for LGBT rights. If you don’t see that the purpose of that comment is to legitimize violence against Palestine I can’t help you.
If that’s the case then OP is an enormous jackass. That still doesn’t change the fact that queer Palestinians are absolutely being oppressed in their country (or what should be a country) and this is too often swept under the rug.
Wow, I wonder if the article posted has anything to do with that! ಠ_ಠ
Sorry, I’m not following?
Most of the southern US won’t stone you or murder you in broad daylight though. What’s happening in Palestine and Israel is fucked up, but it doesn’t give a pass to the shit they do to the LGTBQ+ and women over there.
I think everyone even Arabs agree that the majority of people is homophobic/transphobic. Fine.
But please state a source for people in Palestine being stoned, like at all, no matter the reason. What kind of place do you think Palestine is?
https://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=81112&page=1
You’re joking right? There are literal laws all over the middle east in Islamic run nations about stoning people, just type stoning and middle east(ps this doesnt exclude Israel, they’ve arrested their own who have done it) into Google and you’re going to get a ton of results. Why is this shocking? Sharia law has it as a form of punishment.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning#
Not joking at all. Don’t show me a Wikipedia article, show me a newspaper article about someone being stoned in Palestine.
The first link is literally Palestine…
So we’re talking about stoning people that’s allegedly happening due to violations of sharia law and you bring up a story from 2001 so probably during the second intifada about an incident involving illegal Israeli settlers.
I wanted to assume that you maybe just don’t know better but this is just bad faith from your side.
O I’m sorry that it’s a story from 2001 does that magically make it false now? Goal posts really keep getting pushed further and further…
Hamas doesn’t really do stonings, so you appear to be correct. It looks like just about every execution committed by Hamas involved a firing squad, most often performed in public.
Hamas does torture and execute people for suspicion of being gay, though, even their own commanders.
Free Palestine. Fuck the IDF and Hamas.
Yeah that was my point. It’s not that Arab societies are like super progressive and Palestinian people are suddenly angels just because they are victims of genocide. It’s just that doing stonings is an archaic practice that doesn’t exist in the Levant. Like people might be very conservative and live in authoritarian societies, but they still live in the 21st century and they don’t want that shit.
That being said Hamas absolutely sucks, they are violent, corrupt dictators and while they currently are the biggest armed resistance against the ongoing colonization they shouldn’t have any place in a free Palestine.
Removed by mod
No ❤️
The middle east in general, and subsaharan Africa, are by far the most homophobic regions on Earth: https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/06/25/global-divide-on-homosexuality-persists/
It is, and that’s when a discussion about Muslim nations gets very real.
They still don’t deserve their treatment. But I think most people would prefer to live in a culture similar to Israel’s over one similar to Iran’s.
Lots of people all around the world are transphobic as fuck. That doesn’t mean I want them and their children to get bombed or starved to death.
And let’s not pretend that trans Palestinians aren’t also being bombed and starved
So are you saying that Orthodox Jews and conservative Christians aren’t transphobic, or that we should go Gaza on Texas?
I think OP was wondering why LGBTQ folks would support a group that hates them.
Doesn’t mean to say that they deserve to die though, does it?
Because they have empathy.
There are LGBTQ people in Palestine, do you think Israel’s bombs don’t kill them too?
Because my basic humanity requires me to care about theirs, even if they don’t care about mine.
Do Americans hate us? The only people I’ve been verbally and physically assaulted by have been Americans.
Have you ever spent time in a middle eastern country and been visibly “out”? (I’m assuming you’re saying this in reference to existing somewhere on the lgbtq spectrum)
If the answer is no, but you have spent time in America, then I think this is a strange comment.
I’ve never been out in Russia, but I know we’re persecuted there. Same for Poland. I’ve never been out in Uganda (I haven’t been there yet), and although I’ve been to India the social circles I moved in meant I didn’t encounter anything like what the community members find there.
What I find curious is that Americans use this as a lash particularly against Islam, while at the same time a large part of their population not only supports LGBT-phobic legislation in the US, but also the evangelical community that actively lobbies for the death penalty for being LGBT in Africa. I can sympathize with the plight of Russians under the violent and murderous dictatorship of Putin without saying that the average Russian is correct on their opinion about the LGBT community. If Russia were to invade Uganda and kill 50k civilians, there would be an outcry against it and anyone who said “But they hate The Gays” would hopefully be ushered peacefully out of the room, as the two are orthogonal.
Is Israel killing 40-50k people to secure gay rights in Gaza? Or have they been supporting Hamas because it allowed them to avoid a two state solution?
Trust me - we are not strangers to the idea that other oppressed communities have parts that are still prejudiced against us. That neither justifies genocide nor does it relieve us as individuals from acknowledging such extreme moral wrongdoing. If an unarmed person shot by police turned out to have opposed marriage equality, that doesn’t excuse the moral requirement to oppose that action.
So unless you think that anti-LGBT legislation and violence justifies terrorist activity including the slaughter of civilians within the US (it does not), I respectfully suggest you review your premises.
To be clear, what I said was “I think that’s a strange comment” to someone saying “Americans want to kill me” in comparison to those in the Middle East.
If you read that back carefully, you might notice that I was careful not to say “I support the systematic and brutal murder of millions of people” - that’s because, like any sane person, I see that what Israel are doing is abhorrent. I never argued or insinuated that lgbtq people should support the genocide of bigots, but again for the sake of clarity my position is that only a literal insane person could think that. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.
So, with that said, your post that I responded to seems to imply that you think Americans (in general) hate you in the same way that many in the middle east hate you. To me, that is an incredibly naive view, and a very strange thing for someone who’s never lived there to make.
I think that it’s possible to condemn elements of a culture, in an honest way ie. that the Islamic attitude to LGB is worse than that in western countries, however bad western countries often are (for some reason I think there’s sometimes less hate for the T in Islamic culture) but pull short of supporting the worst elements of western culture (like islamophobia) and absolutely without endorsing literal war crimes.
I have. Did aid work in the region. More than once actually. I’m gay as fuck. People welcomed me as much as the rest of the group. They were some of the kindest people I’ve met. People aren’t a monolith. I’m sure there were shitty people there too, just like there are shitty people in the west. People hate me and essentialize me everywhere. How does it make sense for me to do the same?
I could have very well have had a negative experience too btw. But if I did, I still wouldn’t condemn and entire people to die because of it. I’m not a coward.
I live in Texas and I support this message. Jk. Kinda… Idk, some of us just really really suck…
Not sure about trans acceptance in particular but judged by Arab standards Palestinians are generally right-out progressive. More in the “don’t ask, don’t tell” stage with the occasional threat by fundies.
…and that all of course is West Bank. Gaza under Hamas rule is a completely different topic as Hamas are fundies.
How come do you think South Africa was one of the first countries to legalize marriage equality? Solidarity is how we do away with hate.
Go watch Pride. 2014 British movie. Will make you cry.
Edit, fuck I went and watched the ending again and I’m crying.
Why is this relevant? The article is about Palestinian activists fighting for LGBT rights for Palestine. Yes the rights of LGBT people in Palestine are not great … But that’s literally what this article is about, Palestinians fighting to make it better
So is the US and Canada and the UK. Should I wish for those countries to be genocided too?
The more we keep killing them the faster they will realize they must be the violent barbarians that should adopt our culture.
That’s how this works right?
deleted by creator
Biden was born 40 years before aids happened. He’s doing good not to be grabbing em by the pussy like the rest of his generation. You want a real human, … yeah that’s just never gonna be an option sorry
Omw to adopt this line of thinking uncritically to argue that 9/11 was entirely justified and should happen again once a week throughout every republican state in the US because some of the victims would probably happen to be transphobic.
Congratulations 👏
America’s transphobic as fuck though, why should I give a shit that 3,000 transphobic Americans died on September 11th? tbh, I’m glad that there’s 3,000 less transphobes in the world actually
You can’t really say that the people who died on 9/11 were or were not transphobic though.
Edge lord spotted
You’re the one unironically saying this about Palestinians being murdered by psychotic IDF fascists because they might be transphobic, not me
Great imagination
yeah you’re gonna want to mark your sarcasm since you’re not doing a very good job actually communicating it with words
I’m curious to find out the answer also… no one has yet…
My dear boy, the answer is of fucking course it is, because everywhere in the world is
there is no gaytopia. best you’re gonna find is the gay village! But I mean, they do alright there.
Explains the village people I met on Halloween
Israel is probably the nr. 1 murderer of trans people in the world right now. Get your priorities straight.