The far right is constantly warning that if you go woke, you’ll go broke. But when it comes to the new Barbie movie, they couldn’t be more wrong.
Barbie, which follows Barbie (Margot Robbie) and Ken (Ryan Gosling) as they leave Barbie Land to explore the real world, earned a whopping $162 million in its opening weekend, Variety reported Monday. This is the biggest opening weekend of the year, and the biggest opening weekend for a female director ever.
The film had already made $22.3 million at the domestic box office from Thursday previews, the biggest preview haul of the summer. It blew the previous record of $17.5 million (made by Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 in May) out of the water.
I still don’t know what ‘woke’ means except it’s like the opposite of the ‘moral values’ bullshit Republican’s spewed before it became impossible for even Republicans to ignore that is was complete bullshit.
So basically they gave up campaigning on their own morality and decided to campaign against a made-up immorality instead… I guess if they’ve ruled out just not being morally bankrupt this is actually a good strategy.
Woke = everything conservatives hate.
In reality, it means to be aware of something for the first time.
That’s ok, they don’t know what woke means either
Woke when through the same journey as “SJW” before it. First it’s used by the left/progressives, then it’s picked up to mock the most mad examples of them, before eventually being picked up by right wing media and commentators to attack anything even lightly left of centre.
It started out a term teenagers on twitter used for when one of them discovered racism exists and corporations want to make money. Then conservative adults discovered it and started saying it instead of “the gay agenda.”
Hearing actual senators use it is so embarrassing. I’m waiting for when they form the no cap caucus.
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Do you support traditional American values like the idea that all people are created equal? What about the idea that if someone isn’t hurting you you have no right to impose on their freedom, especially not using the government? How about environmental protection and keeping this gorgeous country looking good? What about the idea that government isn’t perfect and that we must strive to improve it and ourselves? How about the idea that your religion is your right and your problem?
Yeah that’s what woke is. It’s believing what Americans have always said about our country and demanding it do that.
How can you be a good American if you can’t acknowledge the sins our nation was built on?
Yeah that’s what woke is. It’s believing what Americans have always said about our country and demanding it do that.
I’m afraid that the word has long since transcended the borders of your country. In fact it has even transcended the English language and found its way into the language of right-wing culture warriors all over the world.
Also, while I think I know what you’re trying to say, “traditional American values like the idea that all people are created equal” sounds a bit funny considering that your country expressly allowed slavery upon its foundation.
Oh absolutely it’s ironic, but I think it’s important to understand something about America here, one of our main conflicts since the 18th century has been that we have these ideals that we all say sound nice and some of us demand we live by them while others want to live the way our country was once. Our nation is literally made out of irony, a bunch of wealthy slave owners fought a revolution for freedom and equality. But also this rhetoric of demanding our nation put up or shut up about our ideals is a strong American tradition. Part of abolitionist rhetoric was “how can we be a nation of both freedom and slavery?” Part of civil rights rhetoric was demanding that we actually treat all men as created equal.
“Woke” means the same thing as “cancel culture” means the same thing as “socialism” means the same thing as “critical race theory” means the same thing as “shariah law” means the same thing “cultural Marxism” etc. etc. etc.
The meaning is, “I declare this thing is bad in a way that I am incapable of actually substantiating”.
Asked what “woke” means more generally, [Desantis’ General Counsel Ryan] Newman said “it would be the belief there are systemic injustices in American society and the need to address them.”
Aka… believing there’s problems hurting Americans and wanting to solve them.
Woke is what they use to describe things that remind them they’re selfish assholes, and they hate having their conscience speaks up. Being greedy is so much easier when you suddenly remember other people have it worse than you and all they want is the same considerations you’ve already enjoyed
Conservatives have been buying tickets to the Qanon film Sound of Freedom but the theaters are empty. They are just buying tickets to make it appear people are seeing it. They are not.
That’s amusingly pathetic.
They were doing some thing of pay it forward garbage where they would get donations “so we can open the public eyes” and then buyout a theater showing, which no one was there.
They sure do love to fling money at the most random dumb shit, and then immediately complain that democrats are the reason they’re broke
I am amazed they haven’t run out of money already.
Were they all millionaires before this whole Trump thing started?
No but millionaires billionaires and trillionaires fund them to keep doing this so we don’t all finally focus on the actual problems and tax/regulate millionaires billionaires and trillionaires.
Did they have a plan to get those tickets to people? Or did this whole thing exhibit the kind of forethought we’ve come to expect from these people?
You have to be pretty dang motivated these days to go to a movie theater. You have to really want to see that movie. I don’t think these people care enough to get off their ass, drive to a theater, pay money, and then watch crap. Why not see Barbie instead? It’s guaranteed to be more fun and you can still go home afterwards and project how much you hate it on your right wing piece of shit social network.
Saw Oppenheimer tonight, the number of people wearing bright pink in the theater lobby was a sight to behold.
It was really cool actually.
I noticed that too, if you look at the amc app, all the seats in the first three rows are completely booked for my local theatre but not so much where people normally sit…doesnt make sense…
I think this article explains it well, wouldnt be surprised if it was some type of money laundering scheme…
https://www.dailydot.com/debug/sound-of-freedom-amc-ticket-sales/I don’t know much about theaters, but couldn’t the theater be “blocking” those if they know the show isn’t going to be close to booked so they don’t have to clean that section?
Where i am they will run the movie even if theres on person in there…there is usually at least one, but if nobody then they can not show it…
Same thing they do with “best selling” books
What makes this all the more hilarious is that just buying the tickets doesn’t do this.
Have you ever been to a film and seen someone come in, stand in the back and then leave a few minutes in?
That’s probably an auditor counting filled seats. Ticket sales isn’t the only metric folks look at. Actual attendance is tracked too.
I can’t say I’m surprised
The business ecosystem of people taking advantage of right-wing outrage has to be pretty interesting. People with the right social media skills can turn anything into the conservative “own the libs” hallmark of the week. Make your product cheap enough and it should be comparatively easy money…
What makes it a QAnon film? It’s my first time hearing about it, but I enjoy a lot of those actors, and the synopsis doesn’t seem overly right wing or anything. Seems like a paint by numbers vigilante cop movie.
Oh. I mean, I get it to some extent, but according to the article, it states it was filmed before QAnon was a thing. It seems to just be piggybacking on the classic conspiracy of rich people taking children away for their own nefarious deeds, which… wasn’t that the plot of Season 1 of True Detective? Also, wasn’t it kind of the plot of real life, with the revelations of Epstein’s whole operation?
I dunno man, I’ll have to watch the movie to decide, but it seems like people are applying QAnon shit to this movie, when I’m skeptical as to that being the director/writer’s intent. Especially since from what little I’ve read about the director, he doesn’t seem like a conspiracy nut at all. Reminds me a lot of when the Proud Boys started wearing Fred Perry and all of sudden it was deemed a ultra-right brand.
You’ve surely got some sources to back up what you’re saying?
Someone else linked to this, so it’s at least a documented thing.
https://www.dailydot.com/debug/sound-of-freedom-amc-ticket-sales/It’s a documented conspiracy theory, sure.
🤷♂️
all theaters? like, there’s been no attendance at every showing? really?
But my conservative dad posted on Facebook that it was a flop…
In their reality, it is. And that’s all that matters anymore.
My conservative father in law is posting about how great the idiotic Sound of Freedom movie is. I don’t even think he’s seen it
Sound of Freedom - 71% Rotten Tomatoes
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/sound_of_freedom
Box office by week:
Tue 7/4 to Mon 7/10 - $45,668,594
Tue 7/12 to Mon 7/17 - $45,064,968
Tue 7/18 to Sun 7/23 - $33,699,950
Total: $124,433,512
https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl4254237441/?ref_=bo_tt_gr_1Barbie - 90% Rotten Tomatoes
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/barbie
Box office by week:
Fri 7/21 to Sun 7/23 - $162,022,044
Total: $162,022,044
https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl1077904129/?ref_=bo_tt_gr_1For the record, Oppenheimer - 94% Rotten Tomatoes
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/oppenheimer_2023
Box office by week:
Fri 7/21 to Sun 7/23 - $82,455,420
Total: $82,455,420
https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl3725886209/?ref_=bo_tt_gr_1Oppenheimer is 1 hour and 6 minutes longer than Barbie (3 hours vs. 1 hour, 54 minutes), it literally can’t have as many showings and has an age limited audience due to the rating.
I only discovered they was by Mel Gibson the other day when my non-politcal mate said “are you going to see the new Mel Gibson film” which out knowing any of the other context about it.
Bro your friend is an idiot, Mel Gibson has nothing to do with that movie at all, it was executively produced by self help guru and grifter Tony Robbins, it’s based on the “work” of Qanon grifter Tim Ballard, stars Qanon idiot and former Jesus in Mel Gibson’s The Passion of The Christ, Jim Cavaziel, and is directed by this Mexican guy with four directing credits named Alejandro Gómez Monteverde, who’s father and brother were apparently killed by serial kidnappers.
Fair play, he clearly got something mixxed up somewhere. He’s usually pretty on the ball with film stuff.
It’s sounds like he’s getting on the ball with being brainwashed by Qanon crap.
Be wary that your friend might be or is in the process of becoming a bigot.
Nah, he’s fairly apolitical, we did have a mate who feel into some conspiracy stuff that we don’t see anymore and he used to make fun of him with me so I think he’s savvy enough not to fall into that.
Well I hope so, but you never know, some people stay quiet on certain topics because they know their views are socially unpalatable, like Nazis for instance, it’s definitely a red flag.
Either way, gl and I hope things work out.
Being woke is looking at the system critically. It’s not taking what you’re told at face value, it’s examining your own beliefs and the beliefs of society about the system
It’s pretty ironic the way most are using the word
The main reason people use that word negatively is that they got no fucking clue as to what it means.
Woke is good thing but people have made it something bad, and by people I do point to the right.
Woke people made it bad by their constant petty paternalism, and authoritarian bullying.
The mixture of narcissism and thinking they are always morally superior beings has created this situation.
Those are SJWs, who are generally not very woke. They embody the (false) stated morality of the system, which is very un-woke
A woke person would recognize the system is built to turn us against each other, and not play into it
Politicians, especially republicans, have tried to make it a bad word for the sole purpose of keeping their sheep in line. They ONLY want them listening to pod casts for all their information and believing every single thing they hear.
That’s how that entire republican party likes their people so they can feed them misinformation and have it not be fact checked. It’s like the easiest way for propaganda to be used as a weapon.
Turn the idiots against fact checking lol.
I saw a little of ben Shapipos reaction to it through a leftist streamer.
It was hilarious. He was literally mad that a core message of the movie is that you can be whoever you want to as a woman.
Thats the slogan of the company Ben, idk why you didn’t know that.
He doesn’t want to know that. He’d rather tell you what Barbie and, by proxy, other women are.
Women who think independently is the biggest threat to conservatives on the planet
When conservative mouthpieces like him play the outrage card towards this movie, its a directive to their viewers to be mad at it. They label it as something to be mad about and to attack, this shifting public opinion to hate something.
So, now barbie folks are woke and must be destroyed as they are too “leftist.”
Rinse repeat until everything is the enemy and is vilified.
It’s deliberate provocation.
Oh I know, it just amazes me how many people are stupid enough not to see right through it.
It shouldn’t at this point but it’s just so painfully obvious what the grift is.
Does he really not know that there’s a Barbie for pretty much every job from McDonalds employee to surgeon?
lmao got a link?
Thing is, we’ve never actually had an instance where someone went broke, by going woke.
Turns out most people don’t care about this shit when the movie’s actually, you know, good.
This is how conservative arguments work. You simply assert something over and over, preferably with a catchy phrase. Actual evidence or proof is not required, and in fact the very idea of evidence being an important thing is rejected outright.
It doesn’t matter that there’s little that actually supports the notion of “go woke, go broke”. You just say it over and over again so that it FEELS true, and thus it becomes true.
Yeah that seems to be how it goes, I’m still waiting for any example of Obama being a “Race Baiter” or Kamela Harris actually being the nitwit they claim her to be. I don’t think I’ll ever actually get either.
Sure we did. People are “woke” and the dipshit conservatives spend all their money on candidates who cry about it
Bud Lite?
Mostly shifted purchasing habits to other beers under InBev’s umbrella (Modelo was the big one IIRC). Might have caused InBev some headache logistically to shift production around, but ultimately didn’t really move their bottom line.
Doesn’t really work when people boycott Bud Lite by buying Budweiser
they most definitely have not gone broke sir.
Bud light.
So Anheuser-Busch is doing absolutely fine better than last years and last quarter. What I find absolutely HILARIOUS is these morons switching to other Anheuser-Busch brands in protest. Despite mostly fake news about their demise. They will eventually all just forget about this and move on to their new stupid thing.The dip from this was so small that there wasn’t even really an opportunity to make any money off it. it valleyed at 53 just before a record high of 66 the month prior but its already bouncing back at 58. I wouldn’t invest right now unless you’re looking long-term because they ain’t going nowhere. Also Bud Light sucks why do these idiots drink this shit.
I’m on your side and went to that link.
Unfortunately, the person you are debating is correct. Anheuser-Busch’s stock fell over 20% after the boycott began and while it’s come up a little since the initial fall it’s still no where near where it was prior to the boycott in April.
That said, that might be the ONLY example of this slogan being accurate (at least right now).
So did Coke and Heineken and other beverage companies during that timeframe. These things don’t happen in a vacuum, they’re all subject to market conditions.
They’re still up on last year and were much lower in September 22 than any dive since the protest. Even looking at the 5 year chart, pre protest levels weren’t much on where they were 2018. The protests were a blip at best.
I went back pretty far and there is definitely a substantial drop.
The people here saying it had zero is very little effect are not correct.
Granted, overall they are fine and in time this will be historic as time matures the stock so in that respect what the majority of people here are saying will be true.
So they are ridiculous when they say, “Go woke go broke”. But, the boycott definitely has had an impact to the value of the stock, one that continues today.
(I looked at the stock prior to April when the boycott and the whole “Go woke go broke” catch phrase started gaining traction.).
Did you go back as far as Sept/Oct '22? It was under $45 at that point, under $40 in May 2020. They’re trading above their 52 week VWAP atm. If you look really long term they’ve been on a slide since 2016 when they hit a peak around $130.
I’m not saying there was no impact to their share price due to the protests, being protested all over the news will do that, but the drop was small and short - they’ve literally seen bigger drops in the last 12 months.
20% stock fall isn’t broke dude… not in the least.
Is doing just fine… More people were pissed about their cowardly reaction to that whole situation.
It bounced back, and Busch itself isn’t suffering
I mean, Disney appears to be well on it’s way if the news is to be believed.
Disney’s 2023 profits are up 13% YOY
Disney is well on its way to going broke? Lol what?
Let’s see the “news” you’re referring to. I’m genuinely curious who is claiming this and why (though I can take a guess as to the latter).
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For Disney their Diversity Chief Latondra Newton actually left 2017. If anything, they lost money because they de-woked.
I’ve read here, there and nowhere that Disney is preparing for a big deal with Apple, so there might be some directed management towards that effect.
Can someone TL;DR what’s so controversial about this movie? All I know about it is that it’s about barbie, and it stars the lady from wolf of wall street. I can tell that trying to research it myself will not improve my life in any way.
It’s lightly criticizes and gleefully satires the real world’s patriarchal structure, so some people (the vast majority being right-leaning men) are saying it’s anti men and supports misandry. It definitely isn’t and doesn’t though.
The weird thing is, if they actually WATCHED the movie, it makes a strong point for mens rights.
Ken is an accessory to Barbie, he has no real life outside her, doesn’t even have his own house. As the film states, for Barbie, every day is the best day ever. For Ken? It’s only a good day when Barbie looks at him, and she often doesn’t because “every night is girls night.”
When Ken finds out the real world is not like that, he fills the void with “Patriarchy”. It’s an absolutely toxic reaction, but it’s hard to fault Ken for trying to find meaning for his existence and instead, slipping and falling down a red pill rabbit hole.
So you can see why disaffected men might feel attacked, Ken is a mirror to their own existence. Sidelined by women, powerless, and told their reaction is, ultimately, unhealthy and self-destructive, but they can’t see how else to react.
The main problem is Ken, and the real world men like Ken, aren’t presented with a socially acceptable alternative.
The end of the film ALMOST recognizes that Barbie’s Dream World and Ken’s “Kenergy” are equally toxic, but I expected a better conclusion where they realize it’s an inversion of the “real” world where women have been seen as accessories for decades, and the only real solution is true equality on both sides.
They don’t take it that far, it’s still Barbie’s world, the Kens just live in it, with token integrated positions for equality, for example, Kens get 1 position on the Barbie Supreme Court. Even in our admittedly imperfect world, the Supreme Court has 4 women on it (Kagan, Sotomayor, Barett, Brown-Jackson). You’d think they’d boost the Barbie supremes to 4 Kens, or at a minimum, 3+Allan.
You’re wrong.
spoiler
They get denied even one position on the supreme court, they get lower court appointments, which the Kens are fine with since it means they get to wear robes
You do realize that it paints barbieland in a negative light, right?
Eh, I just watched it. From my perspective I see one major problem: it tries to criticize the same problem from two opposite angles which wind up just kinda undercutting each other, while either angle alone could have been pretty powerful, the de facto conclusion of the two together is basically misandry.
Spoilers:
!On the one hand, it presents a gender swapped matriarchy in Barbieland, where Barbies run the world and Kens are basically accessories. If the movie had stayed in Barbieland and focused on Ken’s self-actualization in a female-centric society, that could’ve been a poignant illustration of the opposite struggle in the real world, striking MRAs simultaneously with understanding and cognitive dissonance.
On the other, Ken brings patriarchy into Barbieland and the Barbies 1) are immediately brainwashed? (I don’t think the small pox analogy is sufficient to justify the fact that these doctors and supreme court justices just, decided to be brainwashed?) 2) decide these I guess inherently inferior Ken’s need to be overcome by manipulation? I’m sure this could’ve been turned into something, not as poignant or impressive as the gender-swap concept, but something for sure.
But the two taken together give a really mixed message. Gender subjugation is bad, but it’s okay to do it to men because they’re dumb and bad? Except the men here are metaphors for women in the real world, so is it right to subjugate women in the real world because they’d only just fuck everything up? Is the Kendom an allegory for patriarchy, or a gender-swapped allegory for feminism? Does that mean feminism is bad? We don’t ever get to see Ken actualize, we just see Barbie cut him off and he kinda vapidly goes away? And they conclude acknowledging that the Barbies are subjugating the Kens, so it’s not even like they’re saying women are more enlightened and egalitarian, just that men suck and should be subservient. Society doesn’t really improve, they just squashed the Keninist movement.
It seemed like they were trying to say “patriarchy bad”, but tried to do it by satiration through matriarchy, and also just playing it straight at the same time, which just came out as “men bad”. If they chose a lane, it could’ve stuck. But I just left kinda confused about what they were trying to say, other than a general vibe of “men bad”.!<
Well at the very end of the movie, Barbie chose to leave the system in it’s entirety. The movie has a revolutionary communist message, it’s saying true empowerment is impossible within the bounds of the system. It’s mocking the “more👏female👏executives” sentiment, just doing so in a way subtle enough the Hollywood financiers didn’t realize it.
a lot of the movie is about - Spoiler removed due to incomplete spoiler implementation in apps.
Theres also a speech or two about how hard it is to be a woman. So usual sniveling about how anything which doesn’t reinforce women in the kitchen ideology.
I don’t think your spoiler tagging worked (or maybe my client hasn’t implemented spoilers)
im sorry about that. i used the integrated tagging system, and it worked in the browser.
I’ll remove it incase anyone else gets affected.
One complaint I have heard is that the resolution of the plot is the girls are back in power, where they could have provided a better message to the kids the film is aimed at by having neither Barbie nor Ken in power over the other
It is narrated, “eventually, the Kens would go on to have the same power in Barbieland that women have in the real world” (paraphrased). It’s basically kind of a joke and, perhaps more specifically, a reminder that positive change doesn’t happen overnight. I think it would be a bit… antithetical to spend the whole movie exploring the issues with a supposedly perfect system and then end by saying “okay we fixed it everything is perfect now”.
It’s a good representation of the real world. People don’t learn and make the same mistakes again and again.
It’s PG-13. Not marketed to kids. Maybe the point is that the end ISN’T a resolution. It’s not a happy ending. It’s an ending that mimics real life.
There’s a popular YouTuber called “the critical drinker” who recently posted a deranged rant on the film that sums up the “backlash” from these people.
I will never give that guy my views. Bad taste, bad faith, bad takes. Literally nothing to like there. I was addicted to my outrage, and this guy deals the most potent dose of idiocy you can snort
Now let me start by saying that i recomend barbie very much, that being said, im gonna get ravaged by you people cuz i didnt think barbie was a woke film. Already saw it and while yes its message is feminist, its not shoehorned, doesnt try to pander to audiences with forced diversity where it doesnt make sense, its very self aware, has good writing in that it has well writen characters and they and the plot dont feel like the writers wish fullfilment power fantasy, and the message at end isnt even that left leaning imho since it doesnt dive that much on a certaing thing i thought they were hinting at and seems to be aware of it but at the end it doesnt really take it to light, thought i may be wrong on the end part since thats more on a personal level to me and i wont discus it here due to spoilers.
I’m not going to ravage you, but I am going to point out you seem to have a conceptualization of the term “woke” that’s likely much narrower than how Republicans seem to use it. Being (and acting) self-aware is itself “woke” if you listen to how some of them use the term, which would make Barbie super woke
Woke is when someone on the left. Feminist are at least generally associated with the left, therefore woke.
Well the term go woke go broke originated from them and thats the context it seems to me is being used on here. And i find it to be the most used one when criticising media. And you are right that my definition of it is diferent from the one some of yah have. And yours is valid i guess. But i stand by the fact that it doesnt sacrifice quality for the sake of a shoehorned message ( while not being shoehorned in this case).
I unironically call things woke, and have a problem with “woke” movies, and am usually in 100% agreement with the conservative take on this matter. They’re just wrong about Barbie. Barbie isn’t a woke movie. Most of them are getting that “Barbie is woke” because it does a battle of the sexes thing, and it really kicks ken while he’s down (but gives him a satisfying resolution at the end). But since most of these people haven’t seen the film, they’re really just listening to some braindead takes by commenters and political figures. Like they’re seriously unironically taking the 2001 space odyssey parody scene as “anti-mothers” when literally the whole core message of the movie was pro-motherhood. They’re just wrong.
Was gonna say bassed until the motherhood part… what dou you mean by that? I dont understeand, im being genuine about this, i wanna hear ya m8.
one of the core themes and messages of the movie is that motherhood is good actually, despite being shunned by feminists.
That whas absolutelly nowere in the movie, not even with the mother and daughter characters. Dont know where you got that idea. So last part is not based
Don’t bother trying to explain that to this particular person. They think pro-choice is advocating for up until the moment of birth abortions.
This is a very unstable person and is absolutely projecting their own beliefs to cope.
The entire mother-daughter story arc, the mattel ending, barbie’s ending, it’s pretty much one of the core messages of the movie lol.
Nope
Why do you have a problem with “woke” movies when you could just choose not to see them? Sounds exhausting
First, I do avoid them when I spot them. However, in many cases they take a beloved classic and then turn it woke. I have a problem because had they not pushed the woke stuff into it, it would’ve been a continuation or remake of a beloved classic. Instead it gets turned into garbage.
I agree. Totally went into it blind and I found it inoffensive and absolutely fuckin hilarious.
I think you are using a very right-wing definition of “woke” to make your point here.
It feels like you are saying that something can’t be “woke” without that having a negative connotation, which isn’t really the meaning of Woke outside of those conservative circles.
I would counter that if you use the more traditional definition (as I think was the spirit of the OP) then it takes on a much broader meaning that isn’t definitively negative or positive (though it is typically seen as positive in progressive circles)
In that case I think it’s more than fair to call this movie “woke” as it is specifically dealing with a long-standing traditional product (stereotypical gender norms/etc in Barbie dolls) and coming at it with a more modern progressive angle.
I think you need to accept that you’ve lost control of the word. It means something different to most people in society now whether right wing or not.
No it doesn’t. It means the same thing to most people that it has always meant.
https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/americans-divided-whether-woke-compliment-or-insult
The right just has so much insane propaganda about it that you’ve been convinced most people fell for it, which they haven’t.
Yeah, quoting American stats to me is meaningless in the UK.
That’s cool, you should specify from the onset that your experience comes from a place outside of the actual country where the “woke” culture war originated and is mainly happening, and you should still link stats to demonstrate that the majority of people there have a misunderstanding of what the word means like you claimed. Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence, and most people in the country driving the “woke” culture war still know what the word means.
Yup. Thats what people have being arguing about the most to me.
From my observation, a lot of the culture war issues of the modern era have come from a different usage of language. I remember the whole arguments a few years back about what “racism” means as some people were using the academic “power and privilege” definition while the rest of the world were still using the standard dictionary definition.
Based and remember that america isnt the only one country in the world pilled.
Oh yeah, for all their talk of diversity and inclusion, American progressives are amazingly ignorant of the world outside their own nation.
If you whana go original woke, then its meaning its outside the scope of this since it refers to african americans: Woke is an adjective derived from African-American Vernacular English (AAVE) meaning “alert to racial prejudice and discrimination” and it was turned to a catch it all term for… well… woke things ie alertness to prejudice. And its true, my definition is more of a negative conotation, since its the more used whe making a critisism on media since thats where i know it from and thats how i thend to see it being used on. And i think that analizing the word itself itself is kinda pointless since i was refering more to the forced elements (mostly political) media inserts into itself for apeal to broader demograpics and subsides from investors. And now im not saying media isnt political, just that they thend to be forced into a topic that they wherent even concidering on the begining. And if you whana use the term “Woke” with your definition then more power to ya, but be aware that its meaning is diferent outside your content sphere. I dont consider myself right nor left at least not in the american sence and thats where im gonna Ieave it that, i think i heard the therm in that negative connotation in other places that where very anti stablishment or in other words very left leaning and leftist outside the USA that is and away from american political discourse and not in some alex jhones or other nuts cookie crazy podcast.
Yeah I told my father that’s what woke means and he finally shut up. He’s got mixed grandchildren that are his world, so he thankfully came off the ledge a little that day.
I saw an article the other day about a former Republican congressman who’s trying something similar. Her son is trans and she supports him wholeheartedly, and she’s talking with former colleagues in private about how the trans hate is incompatible with loving their children.
No idea if it’ll work. There was a comment about how mob mentality is a huge problem.
Does woke mean shoehorned or pandering? I feel like “woke” media is labeled as such because of its fundamental socially progressive ideals, and those negative connotations are added by opponents to try and tear down media that’s been designated “woke”
Compared to all the other movies, games and other media that is given the “woke” moniker, Barbie was very firmly “woke”
It spoke directly about how the US and world is a male-dominated patriarchy, and spent the last act going explicitly over in great detail the negatives for women in their gender roles, especially when dealing with men and male partners.
If any other show had even one of the major plot points or lines from this movie, it would be labeled “woke.”
No. Woke just means being aware of other people’s situation. I’m the modern sense it means understanding inequality.
“Woke” is about shoehorning in extreme progressive political “traits”. Whether that’s in preaching the ideology, acting it out (turning white characters black, or adding extended lgbt scenes, etc), and so on. If you watched the barbie movie, what people mean by “woke” is mattel’s behavior in the movie. In the movie, mattel’s behavior is presented as “performative feminism” that’s not genuine, but done for sales and PR/branding. The movie drags mattel hard for this and jabs at it several times. Mattel in the movie is “woke”.
Sasha, at the beginning of the film, is ‘woke’. She literally calls Barbie a fascist, and later “white savior”. Her character is “woke” but realizes how harmful that is.
People saying Barbie is woke is baffling, because a large part of the movie is criticizing woke stuff.
Ok now this one is bassed.
“Does woke mean shoehorned or pandering?”
A little bit of both actually. And yeah, its true what some of you say, its mostly used to describe things we dont like but at the same time giving a reason as to why is that. And the reason being that the piece of media sacrifices a part of its original meaning, character development, setting, dialogue and overall quality, just for the sake of being, or most acuratelly said, apearing diverse while the piece of media itself is about an entirelly diferent mater all togheter. This is mostly done to appeal to the masses, but not those that like to see diversity, its those characters thtat they represent that they think its gonna appeal to that particular demografic be it race, sex or identity. What i mean is that they think they are gonna appeal to lgbt+ people if they insert a character that its what the writers/producers think an lgbt+ person looks and behaves like (i.e. a stereotype or anti-stereotype if they have some awareness)
Barbie is not woke since from the begining it presented itself as to be tackling on sexism, and it was consistent about it from begining to end and did not shoehorn any other things to apeal to other demografics but women in general, and it also helps a lot if you know that the Barbie brand its obviusly for girls, so of course the movie its gonna be for and about women.
An example of a woke movie that tackles similar isues and its actually woke its Black Christmas, and while its main theme from begining to end is sexism and toxic masculinity, its not very well made since the firsr 4/5ts of the movie where kinda like a college sesion on institutionalized sexism and the last bit was like the actual movie that you where expecting. And while at first after you view it you are kinda like yeah this was cool and worked, after some time you realize that no it doesnt, the little there is of horror throught the cathedric part try to justify the twist at the end, and while im not gonna spoil it, it kindda takes away from the original message it was going for, it doesnt contradict it, it just takes credibility away from it.
So no barbie is not woke imho but you can disagree. In the end i could be wrong.
Were did you get your understanding of what woke means?
That is on media outside the USA since my mother thongue is not english and it has another word in it that means the same thing, no im not telling you which one it is. Just telling you about the fact that ther are cultures outside the USA that give diferent meanning on words. And yeah i kow that sounds like im telling you to be WOKE about multiculturalism, and i am (lol) but that word wasnt what i was originaly arguing about, it was about woke-washing amd woke capitalism on media.
I am now even more interested in seeing this movie. That’s the exact impression I got from the trailer, that they managed to really dive into the world of Barbie and make an unforced narrative that makes sense for that world in a very aware way.
Is it really a feminist message though?
Ken is friendzoned at the beginning and doesn’t really want to be just an accessory. He reacts toxically, but it’s shown in reaction to being shut out. “Where do all the Ken’s live?” ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Oh well! Back to the dream house!
By the end, the Kenergy is shown as being just as negative as the Barbie Dreamworld, but nothing is really done to correct either one.
I had kind of hoped that the dysfunctional Matteliverse, which was just as fantastical as the Barbie and Ken worlds had become that way because the CEO was an escaped Ken from years back, but they didn’t go that way.
I mean… it is in a superficial way. Since i already wrote about it im just gona link it to yah. Spoiler alert thought.
The movie was definitely woke in the traditional meaning of the word before conservatives tried (and failed) to change it. Not only was it a very feminist movie, they also took specific aim at Citizens United and capitalism broadly, which makes it a squarely, unambiguously left-leaning movie.
Thats the mistery thing i was refering to at the end, capitalism, its fully aware of it being the main cause of the state of the world, while at the end it contradicts it and presents itself fighting against patriarchy. In my opinion this was not a mistake but deliberate since they are not gonna bite the hand that feeds them, just knaw on it a little bit since thats what the brand sells, empowerment, not revolution, and that what they do at the end. A little of a spoiler warning, just a little bit, but at the end
the protagonists fight to maintain the stablishment after the ken rebelion by tricking them into fighting eachother and preventing them from voting while the kens where second class citicens, and those where the heroes, the ones presented as having the moral high ground. And when its done, the kens whant a place on the council but are denied and are just given an insignificant position on some place just that they dont complain anymore.And while the kens revolution didnt had a good ideology nor does the barbies,its a good example of what happens when a goverment neglets a part of its population. So no, suporting the status quo isnt leftist at all.I’m not sure how to do spoilers so spoiler warning for anyone reading.
That isn’t how the Ken revolution ends. It ends by saying that they will eventually get as much rights as women have in the real world, again emphasizing the fact that women do not have equal rights or opportunities to men and that society should fix that (which is the literal definition of woke). It ends by saying “progress is being made, will continue to be made, and ought to continue to be made” not by maintaining the status quo. It seems like you missed just a few extremely crucial lines in the movie and that led you to this wrong conclusion that the movie is somehow not woke or not leftist, which it undeniably is.
Well it isnt really clear on that front to me, and the protagonists still did all else that i wrote about, maybe i did miss it but it didnt really seemed to end on that note to me, not as i remember it atleast. And it is suposed to mirror womens strugle in the real world just with the sexes reversed. And if the paralles are right, yes a lot was made for womans rights, but a lot more was made to apear we are doing a lot for womans rights and the film is aware of it, it straight up says it in the scene where ken is trying to get a job on some company and it implies it on the mattel company wher everyone of the leaders are male and when conftonted about it say they had some women in the past. So i think tje same may be aplicable to the kens and barbies, just making them believe they are empowered. What im saying is that the movie isnt woke in the international sense of it, so maybe woke-washed would be a more apliccable term to what im refering to. So if i missed it or not i think it leaves enough ambiguity on that front to be interpreted like that.
I don’t know anything about the barbie movie, all i have seen is like a few screenshots and a friend of mine said that Will Ferrell is in it.
But who on earth would think that Barbie wouldn’t have a feminist message?I mean, Barbie started out as anything but feminist, so maybe that’s why. Didn’t the Simpsons do a whole episode on how sexist the whole Barbie concept was back in the 90s? I honestly have no clue, I don’t know fucking anything about Barbie.
Barbie has had her controversies, but she had always had feminist messaging, even if it was less mainstream feminism at times. She has always sat at the crux of a feminist debate: does she impress upon girls that they must look a certain way? Or does she impress upon girls that they can be capable and successful regardless of their traditional femininity. When Barbie was developed and released, the masculine, unattractive woman making it in a man’s world was a relatively common trope. The artifices of famininity were seen as signs of weakness and incompetence, while denying your femininity and emulating men meant a chance at more respectable, mainstream success. Barbie was a response to that idea, to the idea that a woman has to become like a man to succeed like one. Barbie can do everything, and she can do it in a dress and heels. Barbie can be an airline pilot and homeowner, and her plane and house can be as entirely feminine as her wardrobe. When times changed and the toxic femininity tropes shifted to slutty women using their bodies for success, Barbie was sometimes accused of playing into that trope. But that perspective misses the original context of Barbie’s disruptive femininity.
Barbie literally started as a feminist icon. Literally go watch the movie it explains this.
I don’t think I know what woke means anymore and really I hate this term. Can we call it enlightenment or something? I like to have my mind opened to new ideas/concepts or discussion of ideals that align with how society is it should be.
Sorry rant over. I’ll likely watch the movie when it’s available for home viewing. 👍
It is enlightenment. Literally a term from the early 1900s meaning awareness of racial injustice. It is just another term the conservative movement has turned into a dirty word through unrelenting coordinated media efforts.
Killing it means engaging them - so, enjoy that. Just ask things like “what does that mean?” And literally, about any of their dirty words. They don’t know what any of those words mean mostly because those aforementioned efforts rely on vagueness to be effective and any solid, consistent definition would weaken its power. So get them to define it. Then, repeat their definition back to them in terms that make them sounds as fucking stupid as they are.
I can’t speak to whether this is a good movie or not, as I haven’t seen it yet. What I can notice is that the ‘Barbie’ IP appeals to a broad demographic, and every woman I know is planning on seeing this soon.
Strongly suspect Barbie movie’s success is due to good marketing, not alleged ‘wokeness’.
I think its success has more to do with how they’ve broadened the appeal of a Barbie movie by being critical of it in a way that feels honest and appeals to people that like Barbie as well as those that hate Barbie. I am not Barbie’s main demo nor have I ever been a fan of anything related to Barbie, but the buzz got me to skeptically see it opening weekend, and I was absolutely shocked at how much I enjoyed it from start to finish.
Writer/Director Greta Gerwig and producer Margot Robbie should get most of the credit for how the movie turned out, but Matel should get some credit too for allowing these women to embrace the complicated and flawed nature of the IP with the story that they have told.
Not only is it popular with cis women, but like the entire queer community. Also, it looks so insanely hyper stylized that I think that appeals to a lot of people who are into cinema that may not otherwise watch it. I really want to see it on a microdose of acid tbh
Cis straight male here. Loved it. Didn’t get half the references exactly, but I could see how they were so lovingly referencing real behaviors common among Barbie play. They must have had a ton of girls come in and play with Barbie just to watch them, interview them, and get insight.
Very few American girls don’t have fond memories of playing with Barbies.
Except the cool kids, who were in to My Little Ponies before they were Barbie-ized.
And a large minority who were turned off by anything Barbie.
Somehow I never got into Barbies, but now I really really really want a Polly Pocket movie
I heard one is planned. Apparently mattel wants to do a full movie lineup for all their IPs.
fuckin libs bro, i can’t stop lusting after hot pink ryan gosling! this is what the left wants! THIS IS THE FUTURE IF YOU GO WOKE! WAIT!WHERE’S EVERYONE GOING? COME BACK!
Shitty movies with shitty marketing don’t make money, sure
The fact this is supposedly decent and is doing well has made conservatives so mad, I thought Obama just won a 3rd term
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how DARE the new starbucks cup NOT say chirstmass!!!111!!1!!1!
WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU ARE MAKING M&MS LESS SEXY?!?
Hey I like my M&Ms sexy
TARGET SELLS SHIRTS WITH RAINBOWS ON THEM!!!
It’s actually “go woke or go broke”
I know nothing about this movie except that it’s apparently a fun time. Can someone please tell me what makes the Barbie Movie “woke” just for the sake of context?
Because apparently telling children/girls that they can have independence, be anything they want, and recognizing womens struggles is woke
Look man, my wife does whatever I tell her to. She was
groomedraised that way.You know how hard it is to be insecure AND lazy AND have a wife that wants to do crazy shit like “whatever she wants” or even evil communist shit like “get a job” or “talk to others without me listening in” or “disabling the GPS tracker I put on her phone”?
This movie helps drive her in that direction, then what am I supposed to do?
It also lampoons conservative culture of patriarchy.
Without spoilers, they broadly bring up the idea that equality for the sexes isn’t in effect at present moment.
Ah, thank you. I know literally nothing about it and wasn’t sure how people would be upset.
I was thinking it was like the Lego movie or something.
I wonder why people didn’t lose their mind over that Lego movie being political. Why is “average Joe is the real hero when he just lets go of restrictive norms” not a political statement? But “Barbie is the hero in her own movie by abolishing restrictive norms” is woke/political?
I feel like it might be because those movies contain a lot more than just that.
It depicts women outside of a tradition Christian gender role of being barefoot in the kitchen, and can be used as a political weapon.
Damn I didn’t realize the extremely feminine toy about princesses, playing house, being a mommy, and other typical women roles did a complete 180 to Barbie the rebel liberal skank.
You forgot electrical engineer, astronaut, …
That Barbie skank the zoologist.
It isn’t woke. Conservative critics misunderstood the movie. They’re complaining that it’s anti-motherhood (it’s not, it’s pro-), that it’s anti-male (it’s not, it properly recognizes men’s struggles), etc. But the discussion is surrounding the more political/gender norm themes of the movie which are quite openly stated and talked about (sexism, feminism, patriarchy, etc).
Haven’t seen the movie, but I’m planning to. I’m sure it’s fine. That said, as neutrally as I can I’ll try to define characteristics of a ‘woke’ movie.
If said in bad-faith, ‘woke’ means: “Something I don’t like because … women. Amirite.” (aka: A dog-whistle)
If said in good-faith ‘woke’ describes a way to write female characters in the laziest way possible. Some of the good-faith criticisms of wokeness:
- Gratuitous use of minority characters that have nothing to do with the plot, and perhaps don’t even make sense.
- Female protagonists start the movie being fairly competent at, well, everything. The main thing holding them back is a lack of belief in themselves.
- Men, even the ones supporting the protagonist, are generally portrayed as incompetent, ignorant, and biased. They age poorly, and have nothing to teach except to highlight how awesome the female character is. (See point #2)
- A weak story arc. Viewers are expected to appreciate the Strong Female Character as she realizes she’s awesome just the way she is, no real arc happens.
- ON EDIT: All the above are applied to movies based on established IP with existing cultural resonance. Original work is rarely criticized as ‘woke’. (Wish I had remembered to include this in the first place, rather than an after-the-fact ON EDIT.)
There are other points I could bring up, but these are some of the basics. One can have a fun ‘woke’ movie, one can have a crap non-woke movie.
And just so that I don’t get accused of being some closet misogynist, I’m going to provide two female characters that I consider 'woke, and two that are not so that a comparison can be made to illustrate above points:
Woke:
Galadriel - from Amazon’s ‘Rings of Power’
Rey - from Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Well written female characters:
Vi - from Arcane
Ripley - from Alien
Heh.
Yes. There’s that.
And, at the same time, it’s also true that Hollywood has taken established IPs, re-written them in an incredibly lazy way, and then turned around and accused people who criticize the laziness as being assholes for pointing it out.
Can you give a few examples of which IPs have been “re-written”? Rey for example is the protagonist in the new Star Wars movies. They weren’t remakes of the old ones. And Galadriel was always that powerful.
Ghostbusters
1 what’s gratuitous? More than 12% of the cast? A ratio that normally makes you clutch your pearls at the store?
2 happens in every male action movie ever made but it’s men being awesome. 3 has been every sitcom since the first sitcom (I hate 3 but conservatives have loved those shows for decades). And for 3, in men’s movies, the women were just props. I bet you love Planet Of the Apes. The man is super awesome and perfect and the woman is literally a pointless mute.
4 happens for movies with men, constantly.
Your examples are trash too. So Star Wars would have been just fine if Rey was Ray. Why?
You list Ripley but how is that different? If alien was made in 2019 you’d be saying the same shit
Your definition is if it’s like a man’s movie but a woman
Hello @Saneless I hope this reply finds you well.
Should make something clear: @DrMango asked “Can someone please tell me what makes the Barbie Movie woke”. I’m just doing my best to give a reasonably-neutral answer. I don’t necessarily agree with the attitude. (Although, I think I can appreciate it better than most who aren’t RWers.)
Also: I should have added bullet point #5:
**5. All the above are applied to established IP with existing cultural resonance. ** I regret I didn’t include it in the above list since it’s key to understanding the objections to ‘wokeness’ … but in my defense, this is a Lemmy thread - how much time should anyone put into anything on a minor Lemmy thread? ;-)
With that out of the way:
1 what’s gratuitous? More than 12% of the cast? A ratio that normally makes you clutch your pearls at the store?
It’s not a percentage … it’s when a character is cast based on virtue-signaling rather than what makes sense for the story or original IP. For example: A story set in Kamakura period, Japan shouldn’t have Native Americans in the back-ground drinking steins of beer. A character who is described in a book as a middle-aged British Victorian butler shouldn’t be a 20-something, lesbian, black woman.
2 happens in every male action movie ever made but it’s men being awesome.
Yes, there are examples of male characters being awesome out-of-the-gate. But I would submit that the ones that resonate are the ones that had to grow. These resonating characters & stories are what Hollywood studios are re-working in the laziest way possible. (One quick example: Skywalker had to grow into his role, Rey automatically understands everything.) It just seems that every new movie based on an established IP has to make the Strong Female Character good at anything.
4 happens for movies with men, constantly.
We’re talking about what makes something woke. Weak character and story arcs are a staple of wokeness, but not the only one.
You list Ripley but how is that different? If alien was made in 2019 you’d be saying the same shit
I disagree. Ripley, for the movies time, was an original character. Moreover: She made mistakes, grew as a person, and had a decent arc.
To wrap this up: ‘Woke’ is a synonym for lazy writing when applied to established IP - especially when pointing out the laziness opens one to accusations of misogyny.
Cheers!
When people accept something happening in a male character they do not accept in a female character that is at least sexist. If Rey was male perhaps there still would have been some whining, but the sheer amount of angry men tears online over Rey being too good is in part due to her being a woman.
I don’t think people accept it happening in a male character, in both cases it makes for a bad movie. The term woke is just so politically charged it doesn’t really apply to when it is a male character.
Why is it woke when female or “minority” characters are this way but not when white male characters are this way? Your points describe the majority of movies featuring a male white protagonist.
And how is Galadriel not the way she is described in the original IP?
Why is it woke when female or “minority” characters are this way but not when white male characters are this way?
Not OP but both are bad movies for the same reason, the term woke just only applies to those that seem to have been made this way to promote some idea that minority women are amazing and white men suck. That’s just how the term woke evolved since it’s a politically charged term.
And how is Galadriel not the way she is described in the original IP?
I don’t know much about this but is this the dwarf queen who was supposed to have a beard but didn’t? If so then yeah definitely not as described in the original IP. If not, well yeah no idea then.
I haven’t seen the movie, but I can blindly assume its either
- Common/traditional protagonists are now black for the sake of pleasing a “minority”
or
- Everyone is a “woman” and/or male characters with “lowlife” roles (thiefs, submissive to women, etc.)
Increased diversity in casting isn’t just to please a minority. Those of us in majority demographics also love seeing the demographics of real life reflected in media. Pushing the boundaries of what could/SHOULD have been is perfectly lovely.
As for your second paragraph: so it’s when women- led stories are like men’s stories have been since time immemorial.
Please explain to me what is woke…oh a bunch of things you hold predjudice to but won’t admint to properly
My definition of woke, if you ever need it:
When a person who enjoys an entitlement advocates for other to be allowed to do the same for no personal gain.
If anyone ever criticises ‘woke’ - especially in a group - I always, always press them for their definition. Not examples; definitions.
Thank you. Exactly this
It reminds me of a story I tell of a lady on FB or whatever cancer portal and she was saying that it’s bullshit that an “illegal” in line at the grocery store who “doesn’t work” gets $800 a month for doing nothing
First of all, being able to look at someone and knowing their citizenship status is an amazing talent. Secondly, this lady who lives in a town where the median income is $100k was pissed that someone made less than $10k a year
Tonhwe, she was mad that the income gap for her family was only like $190k instead of $200k. If that person made $0 their lives wouldn’t change one but. They’re just that petty
Originally the term meant in the black community to be awake and watch out for racist cops and officials.
The right didn’t like that of course and appropriated that word, redefining it as positive discrimination of non-white and women so all something that should be stopped and went from there to mean anything vaguely leftists or non-conservative values.
So it doesn’t have one fixed value. By now it’s just a political term that makes people angry but nobody really knows why.
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Liberalism is the core ideology of the historical “west.” The “west” you want isn’t the “west” that ever existed and your problem is the core defining feature of “western” nations
