I’m a cis male and I believe in the importance of feminism, but I hesitate to call myself a feminist because it seems like there is a presumption of understanding women’s experiences as if I was part of the Me Too movement. In some binary sense given how hateful and shitty men can be I’m absolutely a feminist, but I wouldn’t declare myself to be one. What is your standpoint?
Yes, I’m a cis man and I am a Marxist feminist. Feminism is not exclusionary to cis men, and Marxist feminism is critical as patriarchy is a secondary contradiction that rests upon the primary contradiction of class society. Attacking sexism attacks capitalism, and attacking capitalism attacks sexism. They are connected.
Thanks for saying this. There was a rather popular unpopular opinion a while ago about how the only struggle should be the class struggle, and feminism was getting in the way. People need to see that they’re both part of the same fight.
That is a vulgar materialist conception, from those who do not grasp dialectical materialism, as well as those who reject it deliberately. Class reductionism doesn’t recognize secondary contradictions that rest upon the base of primary contradictions, seeing each as separate and butchering how contradiction actually works as an engine of change in dialectics.
Yes, absolutely.
You don’t have to understand a woman’s experience so much as you have to not be a dick when she tells you her experience.
Look at all the men that got butthurt over “bear vs rando man” and I’m gonna be honest, I’d choose the bear over many of them too. They refused to listen to what was actually being said by that statement.
Hit the nail on the head. Being cis white het doesn’t make you automatically the enemy. Your actions do.
There are dozens of us!
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Seriously though when I hear reactionaries complain about the different movements condemning the white patriarchy, all I can think is “oh you thought they were mad at you? Well I guess they were right to be”. It’s really not that hard to recognize the injustice and violence inflicted in the past and to try to stop it from continuing. And most importantly it’s not hard to know when to sit down, shut the fuck up, and listen
That’s a lot of buzzwords to agree with me.
Yes 100% bc the literal definition of feminism is the equal treatment for all genders. I don’t go around just telling people that. They can probably just tell I am bc I’m not shitty to a specific gender…
If Feminism is equality between genders, then yes, I am a feminist.
But if Feminism is unconditional trust towards women, then no, I’m not a feminist.In my experience people who call themselves feminists often put women above men, and will deny any criticism towards them because they’re women, and women never do anything bad.
Was going to say essentially this. It can really feel like the most outspoken feminists have a ‘women good, men bad’ mentality (of course many men are equally deranged).
The injustice towards women is absolutely greater, but look at health and happiness metrics and it looks like men are much worse off, and those two points are very much intertwined, a lot of cause and effect both ways (just my opinion and how I’ve made sense of everything). I think there’s probably no such thing as womens problems or mens problems. Only human problems that bounce around and affect everyone.
I think there’s probably no such thing as womens problems or mens problems. Only human problems that bounce around and affect everyone.
To your point, yes absolutely these issues affect us all, because we’re all connected as humans. But you might want to reconsider how you phrase that. This has big “I don’t see color” energy.
Both men and women absolutely have unique and specific issues that need recognition if we are to meaningfully address them.
True we certainly have lots of issues to recognise and address, but we’ve been trying for decades and not getting all that far. You don’t think it’s at all worth considering these issues in a broader sense? How some men’s treatment of women is influenced by women’s treatment towards men? Or what women can do to help those men be better. It’s not like one person’s actions is anyone else’s responsibility, but surely it could be an area of focus?
I have never met a feminist that does these things despite being a feminist and in feminist circles for decades.
My interpretation of it equals to same standing. Both in duties as well as in wages.
A woman should get the same wage regardless of if they get a child or not.
Same Job? Same output? Same wage!Well feminism is from Latin “femina” - a woman, so it is a fight for women’s rights, and not for gender equality. Men also face lots of expectations that can be called toxic, like supressing their emotions, being the one responsible to bring the beacon home, going at war etc. These things are out of scope for feminism.
If you have to pull out an etymology argument to justify a political position, you’re wrong by default. Because you’re blatantly ignoring the actual movement & extracting whatever meaning you want out of that word.
Feminism fights against the patriarch, which in modern terms include both traditional restrictions placed on women and men. So the fight against patriarchal expectations placed on men, among them toxic masculinity, are absolutely part of feminism as a political stance today.
Of course I would and I do. I find the arguments that there are many branches of feminism to be a reason to not consider yourself a feminist to be kind of ridiculous. There are multiple branches of everything. Not all anarchists agree, not all socialists agree, not all communists agree. No group is a monolith with perfectly aligned values and thoughts.
I was raised with Gloria Steinem’s definition of feminism shaping my understanding, and have called myself a feminist since I was a child:
“A feminist is anyone who recognizes the equality and full humanity of women and men.”
A more modern and inclusive version of that same idea, adopted by UN Women:
“Feminism is the belief that everyone, regardless of gender, should have equal rights and opportunities.”
Feminism is a very complex grouping of movements and ideologies, but I think “membership” within them is very simple: if you believe in equality regardless of gender, you’re a feminist.
This raises the question whether feminist is the right word for those definitions. Humanist, maybe?
I’m not trying to “all lives matter” the situation – the history of the treatment of women warrants specific advocacy. But I think of a feminist as someone who (regardless of gender) is actively an advocate for change, not just someone who believes in equality.
That’s the connotation I have for the word anyway. Clearly UN Women are a more authoritative source, and they specifically use the word “belief,” so my connotation seems to be wrong.
How does it feel that the person who defined feminism for you was a CIA agent?
Not great!
Are you implying that feminism is a CIA initiative?
Steinem worked with the CIA to promote reactionary propaganda and helped direct the women’s liberation movement into a corporate-friendly, anti-socialist direction.
Source: Jacobin
They didn’t imply feminism is a CIA initiative, but the CIA definitely worked with her to influence the feminist movement.
Sure, because they cared about controlling the direction of the political movement, same way they influenced the Civil Rights movement. But once again, unless they are implying that the definition of feminism as offered by Steinem, quoted above, is part of a CIA influence op, or tainted by their influence, then what’s the point of bringing that up?
To have a conversation? To get further insight into how a person thinks? To gain understanding? To talk about the ideological framework through which the person views the world, and hopefully gain some perspective out of that talk?
If they truly intended it to be a neutral question, then they used a particularly bad choice of phrasing.
Most people understand the CIA is a tool of imperialist violence/authority, but framing that as “how does it feel to x” is clearly a condemnation of the association being pointed out, which in this case would only matter if that association itself in some way taints the topic it was brought up in response to… I.e. the definition of feminism by Steinem.
Fair point.
Woman here and we could use more male feminists
Is there anything in paericular you think would be helpful to see from male feminists?
Solidarity
In my humble enby opinion you can call yourself a feminist if you believe in equality between genders. There are many flavours of feminism and they often contradict each other. You will never be a perfect feminist in every feminists’ eyes. And you shouldn’t try to be.
But be humble and curious when other feminist and particularly women try to explain their point of view.
No. I think every sane person is against sexual harassment. Term has become so broad and there are many things under that label that I disagree with. And because its so broad and popular it has attracted all sorts of slimy politicians to it.
My eyes roll 720 degrees when I see prolific feminists addressing EU parliament and taking photos with all sorts of celebrities and politicians. At the same time there is loud silence when the most high profile sexual scandal comes out that involves one of the top politicians in the country. And the rest of “feminist” nomenclature just rolls with it domestically and internationally. Bunch of spineless politicians.
Hard yes. If you believe in equality and justice what the fuck else would you be?
Though, I suppose there are those that don’t… They can fuck off
Absolutely.
If you’re a guy, you’ve heard guys talk about women when none are around. Maybe it’s coworkers, maybe it’s family, but the culture of misogyny is not some on-the-wane thing, it is alive and well.
I think in the purest sense yes, a general platform of equality for genders.
However I’m growing increasingly cynical and wary of continuing to advocate more in this direction. Not that it’s inherently wrong, it’s that the movement has been co-opted by the capitalists. Very swift to make sure women still bear all of their responsibilities, now also must enter the workforce in order to make a combined living family income. Yet no additional social supports. Men’s gender roles changing in society, but absolutely no future planning or accommodation for what men are supposed to change into, or what role to take.
We are slaves and I think it’s always important to remember that. We get the scraps we’re allowed. And all of the forward progress isn’t as forward as we want to self-smugly believe. We are still being played as the underclass.
Yeah. I wouldn’t bring it up as a non sequitur but it’s pretty important.
YES
No I’m not a feminist.
Feminism has had several waves with varying ideology behind it and I definitely don’t agree with all of the ideals espoused by feminists.
I’m a humanist egalitarian which better describes my position.
What ideals don’t you agree with?
I somewhat recognize my own position in the message above and to me it’s not so much about not being a feminist, as it is that I’ve seen too many people calling themselves feminist while proceeding to do things like: call all men pigs, be transphobic, generally try to push down others in an attempt to rise themselves. If by feminist you mean “for equality between men and women (and all others)”, then sure I can agree to that, but I’m not sure that’s the best way to describe that position anymore
