See, I know you can’t understand what’s being said because you’ve already relegated yourself to the role of “reviewer” and are no longer an artisan invested in the state of your craft.
Oh fucking hell, we’ve reached the “artisan” stage of the argument.
Yes, brother. I have abandoned the sacred art of software engineering by allowing a machine to draw rectangles for me. Somewhere, an ancient guild master has snapped his mechanical keyboard over his knee in disgust.
This is exactly the kind of self-important wank that happens when someone realizes the technical argument isn’t going particularly well and retreats into aesthetics.
My guy, dragging the boxes is the easy part. If you already know what these services do, what is the AI accomplishing for you?
IT’S DRAGGING THE FUCKING BOXES.
Holy shit.
That is literally the point.
I know what the services do. I know which services communicate. I know what the request flow should look like. I describe that information, the machine performs the tedious mechanical transformation into a diagram, and then I verify that the representation matches what I intended.
You’ve somehow managed to identify the exact value proposition while presenting it as a rebuttal.
“But if you already know what you want the PowerPoint to say, what is AI accomplishing by making the PowerPoint?”
Making. The. Fucking. PowerPoint.
The intellectual work and the mechanical production of an artifact are not the same thing. This really shouldn’t require a fucking topology seminar.
And no, knowing that A calls B, B publishes an event, and C consumes it does not mean I’m “0.9” of the way through creating a polished diagram any more than knowing the numbers I want plotted means I’m 90% of the way through formatting a chart.
You’ve simply assigned essentially zero value to execution time and then triumphantly discovered that tools which reduce execution time have essentially zero value.
Very impressive result.
The “artisan” thing makes this even funnier because apparently craftsmanship, in your conception of software engineering, isn’t understanding systems, making good architectural decisions, identifying tradeoffs, debugging difficult problems, or communicating designs clearly.
No, the sacred craft begins when I manually position the fucking rectangle.
And your argument about verification is still just as broken as it was before.
I don’t need to independently produce an artifact to determine whether it represents something I already understand correctly. That’s why reviewing a 20-line diff can take thirty seconds even though discovering and implementing the correct change might have taken someone an hour.
Recognition and generation are different cognitive tasks with different costs.
You keep trying to erase that distinction because your entire “ticket-to-implementation continuum” depends on it not existing.
Profound.
I agree it wasn’t particularly profound.
It wasn’t supposed to be.
It was an extremely simple analogy for an extremely simple point, and somehow we’ve now established that even that needed further explanation.
But please, tell me more about the lost artisanal tradition of manually drawing sequence-diagram arrows. I’m beginning to understand why AI isn’t saving you any time.
Oh fucking hell, we’ve reached the “artisan” stage of the argument.
You’re being hired as one, so I don’t understand what all this contempt is for. I didn’t realize you hated your profession so much.
If you spend only 30-seconds looking at my 20-line changes, I’m just going to skip you and hit the merge button myself. What value add are you possibly providing. A check mark?
I know what the services do. I know which services communicate. I know what the request flow should look like.
Oh, I see. So, by
“Create a sequence diagram showing the interaction between these five services for this request flow”
You did not mean that the AI would discover these connections for you, something I might consider to be saved time, you meant that you would write:
Service A connects to service B. Service A connects to service C. Service B connects to service D. Service D connects to service E with the label “Once per day”. …
You know, this is starting to look like a fairly typical mermaid diagram. I suppose you’re counting the semi-colons as saved time?
You keep trying to erase that distinction because your entire “ticket-to-implementation” continuum depends on it not existing.
My friend, my beloved brother in arms, it’s not just Suno. This “screwdriver” you’re fond of does not live up to my standards. At all. I can only assume that you are satisfied by the tangled mess of bullshit I’ve seen these AI-programmers produce because you care fuck-all about the work you’re doing.
If I have it generate a sequence diagram, and it comes out wrong, and I correct it, and I have it generate a new sequence diagram, and it comes out wrong, and I have to correct it, and I have it generate a new sequence diagram, and it comes out wrong again—I may as well just have made the damn thing myself. This has been my experience every fucking time.
You are free to let the buzzards spread your garden seeds for you, I suppose. But not in my garden. I would ban you from my repos so fucking fast.
Oh fucking hell, we’ve reached the “artisan” stage of the argument.
Yes, brother. I have abandoned the sacred art of software engineering by allowing a machine to draw rectangles for me. Somewhere, an ancient guild master has snapped his mechanical keyboard over his knee in disgust.
This is exactly the kind of self-important wank that happens when someone realizes the technical argument isn’t going particularly well and retreats into aesthetics.
IT’S DRAGGING THE FUCKING BOXES.
Holy shit.
That is literally the point.
I know what the services do. I know which services communicate. I know what the request flow should look like. I describe that information, the machine performs the tedious mechanical transformation into a diagram, and then I verify that the representation matches what I intended.
You’ve somehow managed to identify the exact value proposition while presenting it as a rebuttal.
“But if you already know what you want the PowerPoint to say, what is AI accomplishing by making the PowerPoint?”
Making. The. Fucking. PowerPoint.
The intellectual work and the mechanical production of an artifact are not the same thing. This really shouldn’t require a fucking topology seminar.
And no, knowing that A calls B, B publishes an event, and C consumes it does not mean I’m “0.9” of the way through creating a polished diagram any more than knowing the numbers I want plotted means I’m 90% of the way through formatting a chart.
You’ve simply assigned essentially zero value to execution time and then triumphantly discovered that tools which reduce execution time have essentially zero value.
Very impressive result.
The “artisan” thing makes this even funnier because apparently craftsmanship, in your conception of software engineering, isn’t understanding systems, making good architectural decisions, identifying tradeoffs, debugging difficult problems, or communicating designs clearly.
No, the sacred craft begins when I manually position the fucking rectangle.
And your argument about verification is still just as broken as it was before.
I don’t need to independently produce an artifact to determine whether it represents something I already understand correctly. That’s why reviewing a 20-line diff can take thirty seconds even though discovering and implementing the correct change might have taken someone an hour.
Recognition and generation are different cognitive tasks with different costs.
You keep trying to erase that distinction because your entire “ticket-to-implementation continuum” depends on it not existing.
I agree it wasn’t particularly profound.
It wasn’t supposed to be.
It was an extremely simple analogy for an extremely simple point, and somehow we’ve now established that even that needed further explanation.
But please, tell me more about the lost artisanal tradition of manually drawing sequence-diagram arrows. I’m beginning to understand why AI isn’t saving you any time.
You’re being hired as one, so I don’t understand what all this contempt is for. I didn’t realize you hated your profession so much.
If you spend only 30-seconds looking at my 20-line changes, I’m just going to skip you and hit the merge button myself. What value add are you possibly providing. A check mark?
Oh, I see. So, by
You did not mean that the AI would discover these connections for you, something I might consider to be saved time, you meant that you would write:
You know, this is starting to look like a fairly typical mermaid diagram. I suppose you’re counting the semi-colons as saved time?
My friend, my beloved brother in arms, it’s not just Suno. This “screwdriver” you’re fond of does not live up to my standards. At all. I can only assume that you are satisfied by the tangled mess of bullshit I’ve seen these AI-programmers produce because you care fuck-all about the work you’re doing.
If I have it generate a sequence diagram, and it comes out wrong, and I correct it, and I have it generate a new sequence diagram, and it comes out wrong, and I have to correct it, and I have it generate a new sequence diagram, and it comes out wrong again—I may as well just have made the damn thing myself. This has been my experience every fucking time.
You are free to let the buzzards spread your garden seeds for you, I suppose. But not in my garden. I would ban you from my repos so fucking fast.