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I love that lemmy is so techy, this is in c/memes of all places
I’ll give that whole system the d.
And I wanna emphasize it’s a “d” not a “D.” I got a lil one, ok?
Erm acturally its GNU/Linux/Systemd/pipewire/networkmanager/wayland
deleted by creator
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systemd haters are the antivaxxers of the Linux world. There. I’m sure this statement won’t lead to any heated discussion at all.
The UNIX philosophy is “Everything is a file.”
systemd doesn’t follow that, with its binary logs and stuff.
Just part of why I keep going back to FreeBSD.
Replace everything is a file with “everything is a byte stream with a file handle” and your there.
There is A LOT of Unix that doesn’t stick to the convention of “everything is a text file” and for good reason.
No. It does some things right and many things wrong. Difference in priorities, that’s all. Except you often don’t have a choice, because of some of the things Systemd does (intentionally) wrong.
Wrong from my view, that is.
‘new standards’ vs ‘dunning-kruger-based decisions you are locked into’. Sure.
Systemd ‘haters’ are the people who know better and learned from best-practice.
Systemd ‘haters’ are no more haters than your parents who told you not to eat candy all day were candy haters.
To any new Linux users, this is a good example of Linux “antivax” mindset.
Actual Linux admins, people who use Linux at scale, people who design things and use Linux to do things disagree.
There is a reason why Redhat, Debian, Ubuntu, and Arch all ship with and recommend systemd as the startup system. ALL as in 100% of large Linux deployments on bare metal use systemd.
If you want to play with startup systems that’s fine there are obscure distros out there for you. Startup system swapping can be a fun hobby.
But don’t be tricked by the very loud but very small Linux “antivaxers” group.
I dislike system D. I actively choose to use it tho because I don’t hate myself more then I dislikelt system D.
Give me a better option and I’ll use it. Till then I choose to not hate my self.
Linux system administrator here.
Systemd fucking sucks, and it’s a very big issue in the Linux world, because it centralizes everything into what should be the simplest process of the OS. It has a huge attack surface (and many recent critical CVEs have happened due to systemd). It forces everything into their unit files, which are very flawed and lack features that previous systems actually had. One of the big reasons the enterprise Linux community is looking to Alpine instead of the more traditional RHEL or Ubuntu Server is exactly the lack of systemd.
Aside from that, on the personal side, systemd has bit me in the ass way more times than any of the more traditional systems. I wish it wasn’t so common. It’s very rapidly taking over the Linux ecosystem, limiting freedom to choose another init system. And it’s lead by a Microsoft employee.
A few issues here.
It’s very rapidly taking over the Linux ecosystem, limiting freedom to choose another init system.
Nobody working with Linux professionally in 2026 would say this. Systemd has taken over and has been the defacto choice for a LONG TIME. The last production grade Linux to not use Systemd was rhel 6. Rhel 6 was released in 2010 and full support ended in 2016.
Also no companies are using Alpine for “lack of systemd” Companies aren’t installing alpine Linux on bare metal outside of embedded devices. The appeal of Alpine Linux is containerization or embedded. Alpine Linux lets you release 20mb container images compared to 200mb for even slim Debian images. This is a great thing. But not related to systemd.
If we look at what professionals working with Linux use on bare metal or even on non ephemeral cloud hosts we find RHEL / OEL / Rocky / Alma, Ubuntu LTS, Suse Enterprise, Amazon Linux, Azure Linux, and rarely Debian.
Yes there are outliers but antivax doctors are outliers too.
Notice how I put the “taking over” part in the personal issues. It has long taken over in the enterprise world, as I mentioned with RHEL and Ubuntu Server. Mainly because those are the biggest 2 options, and most other enterprise systems are based on them or try to be like them. The enterprise Linux scene is very homogeneous. Systemd is now taking over consumer Linux, where you historically saw less homogeneous systems.
Alpine Linux has already been used a lot for containers and embedded devices, but companies are starting to see the value in it. It’s fast, it’s lightweight, it has a small attack surface and it can be used for many things, not just containers. We have full VMs running on Alpine and hosting systems, and they’re very appealing because they’re reliable, and their images are smaller. Alpine also takes less time to install, and it’s more reliable when starting from a generic image than any other systemd distro.
The grand majority of systemd haters have no idea why they hate systemd or what an init system even is, they just know their favorite youtuber told them “systemd bad” and blindly agreed.
Linux tech types told me Linux windows
Exactly. A very small but VERY disproportionally loud group.
They uninstalled systemd from their computers and installed it on their brains.
Systemd is running rent-free in their heads
What’s systemd? (I use OpenRC btw.)
Perfect example. This person has systemd so much on the brain I actually tagged them as weirdly against systemd some time ago. lol
Perfect example. This person has systemd so much on the brain I actually tagged them as weirdly against systemd some time ago. lol
“This person plays volleyball, he must hate basketball so much.”
No?? In the past you were saying weirdly anti systemd stuff. So much so that I went out of my way to tag you.
More like “this person rants so much against basketball that it’s weird”
I’m against the systemd monopoly; the lack of choice on most major distros while other init systems are perfectly fine for the majority of users; as a consequence against the perhaps unintentional incorrect narrative that systemd is the only reasonable/modern option.
systemd has flaws, but I’m not anti.
There’s nothing weird about being against metastacizing cancer.
But there is something weird about comparing any start up system to cancer. It was weird when Balmer compared Linux to cancer. It was weird then and it’s weird now.
As someone else in the thread said „Rent Free“. It’s true.
Ragebait for old nerds
Because we know it’s true, and we hate it.
To kids, anyone with 15 years in is “old”.
Guess what they called us when we pointed out the procedural failures in its design? Yep: old.
Meanwhile I’m just here booting my sysV box reliably and not cringing about HUPping dbus. I’ve never seen as frail a shit bag as a Systemd-afflicted install.
What do you mean old 😅
I mean most young nerds have no idea how to use a computer never mind anything about the internals of Linux - I feel like the generations of nerds who know what systemd is are all over 30, and the ones who are mad about how systemd took over a bunch of things and kinda acted like dicks towards existing patterns are mostly over 40
I guess i got declassed from nerd or my age is all a lie
I am almost 40 and have been using Linux for 3 years now and I am computer literate. However, I couldn’t tell you what exactly systemd other than vague generalities.
I feel like there isn’t a generation of nerds, just nerds in general, that use Linux deeply and are knowledgeable about Linux low level systems.
Well yeah how am I supposed to fit systemd on a milkv duo of ram? My gen z brain can only handle compiling a kernel to minimize its footprint, hardly even scraping the surface of linux experience.
(Non sarcastically though, why would anyone under 30 not know about systemd? Sure mainstream OS’ have more users than ever, but thats cause the world is techier than ever - growing up with fiber makes getting distro and tutorials trivial. I theorise youre getting pulled into the boomer mindset of “this person online does this so is an accurate representation of an entire generation”, which is kinda foolish.)
(PPS I know some gen z’s who dont even know what a file or folder is, so I’m not saying everyone is techy, but just that is almost statistically gaurenreed some people will be with a gen z population of almost billion people).
(PPPS, yeah Im talking about the 64mb milkv duo. No its not fun. But fuck is it informative.)
I’m making broad generalisations I guess but I’ve heard and read (and been told, verbally by some teacher friends) a lot of anecdotes about computer literacy being super low among the younger generations. I’m early 30s and feel old - it sometimes feels like general interest in the inner workings of computers has been in decline for a while. Obviously on lemmy we’re in a massive echo chamber but out the in the normy world is getting more rare that I encounter anyone younger than me who is nerdy about computers in the way I was as a teenager. Even just owning a computer is getting less common I think. My theory is to blame smartphones - they meet most young people’s computing needs and aren’t as tinkerable as computers (for better and worse)
I want a sysv init + DJB daemontools setup.
System V forever, Solaris 9 gang reporting in.
I’m doing my part!
excellent bait
I remember when systemd was a replacement for sysvinit and it was a slight delay to relearn but overall an improvement.
Then they started adding services, and that’s where I started to not get along with it.
ntpd, resolver, networking, replacing ssh startup with a triggered socket. These got on my nerves and felt like it was overstepping.
Yeah that was the good time! Just kidding I have no clue what you’re talking about.
replacing ssh startup with a triggered socket
Socket activation itself isn’t exactly new, inetd got added to BSD in 1986.
Well, most of those aren’t really part of the “systemd init system”, they are just part of the “systemd project” which is more than just the init system.
As such they are just optional services that you can install (except the ssh part which is still the same ssh but with a different default configuration), but the init system of systemd is still the same. They are just more convenient and/or advanced for distro maintainers.
As a matter of fact, most desktop distributions don’t even use “systemd-networkd” which is the networking manager of systemd. Instead they use “networkmanager”, which many people associate with systemd, but it’s really an entirely different project.
You are still free to use the systemd init system in place of sysvinit, and not use all those services you dislike, you just have to configure them. Which most people think is inconvenient, but shouldn’t be a problem for you seeing as you don’t like the convenience of the systemd ecosystem.
I’d like to interject for a moment…
You have to do that using
systemctl start interjectd@message.mdoh you … you got me good. Here take this https://preview.redd.it/941u10hnykcb1.jpg?width=821&auto=webp&s=9cd1cf2f4e33270ba2b8d2a4d85b5f0cb952c4aa
What’s this? This ain’t Reddit; we award differently here
With farts and no pooping?
(And polishing wizard orbs, Taylor Swift’s jet, and so much more besides. What else more, you ask? Well I will tell you. S-s-shut up you, there is definitely something else besides that!!)
systemd+(gnu+Linux)
Yeah, but how do you feel about this sentence an old colleague used to say: “I like Ubuntu. Its a really good program!”
Makes me think of the old saying that Emacs is a great operating system that’s only missing a decent text editor
You used to be able to install Ubuntu on Windows via mingw, so for some people Ubuntu was just a program
The Tragedy of systemd - presentation by Benno Rice
What I hope that this talk has provided is a removal of fear and particularly a removal of pity of SystemD and the people who actually use it. […] So, yeah, what I would challenge everyone here is look at SystemD and try and find at least one thing that you like, and then go see if you can implement it. Thank you.
Great talk
Me, who knows next to nothing about how my 3 Linux machines work: *taking notes*
Don’t take too many, this is a shitpost about how bloated systemd is
I literally don’t even know what systemd is, I think I’ve seen it in the Resource Manager 😅
Shout-out to the open source community and Steam for making Linux gaming so simple that even I can do it
Edit: I now have a passing understanding of what systemd is, and understand there is a Holy War to be fought between those in support of it, and those who prefer more modular init scripts. To arms!
Is an init script just a very British version or systemd? As in “it’s systemd, init?”
I think it comes from Spanish-speaking Brits, or maybe a British Yoda, that’s why it’s “init, scripts?” and not “scripts, init?”
Ahh, yes. That makes total sense. British Spanglish coders. It was right in front of my face the whole time
Oh god please don’t
Listen, you little shit…
