You’re showing how Zenz’ estimations are baseless, and RationalWiki is wrong. Zenz invented numbers pulled from thin air from a tiny sample size. You aren’t highlighting how the Grayzone is wrong, you’re proving RationalWiki’s problem with statistics and estimation, and highlighting your own willingness to overlook critical flaws in data analysis just to serve your own right-wing political ends.
Secondly, the top result article for “Uyghur genocide” circles back to reports by Zenz for allegations of genocide, and people referencing Zenz. I can go on and on, the most credible report is the UN report that you refuse to look at, and China’s response to it thoroughly debunks or contextualizes everything brought up. The reason you should read the reports is so that you can understand what the actual allegations are, rather than listening to a far-right christofascist propagandist paid by the US government to discredit China and other left wing groups.
Uyghur population growth in Xinjiang exceeeds the average population growth in Xinjiang. Further, the “Xinjiang Police Files,” sourced by Zenz, contain entirely fabricated stories about the vast majority of the people in it (names redacted from the public release):
As for rationalwiki being liberal, they absolutley are. For example, they call Friedrich Engels the “dictator of writing” on their “notable communists” subsection of the communism page:
They also call every socialist leader a “dictator,” and include Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge an example of “communism.” These people are not serious, they are liberals that maintain the US government’s line on its enemies to a T. This goes well with your support of a literal CIA propagandist, Adrian Zenz.
I’ve moved no goalposts. You keep defending and dodging Zenz’ clear biases and proven track record of lying, manipulating data, and belief that China is the anti-christ. For example, Zenz showed a picture of elderly people recieving medical care at a clinic, and used it to boost his “forced sterilization” theory.
This is what Zenz writes:
Why on Earth do you complain about creationists as though they have nothing worthy to say, while simultaneously using a crank propagandist that believes homosexuality is a sin, and that the rapture is coming within decades?
He also downplays actual islamophobia:
RationalWiki tries to claim it is a fallacy to look at Zenz’ views and methodology, as “even the far-right can be correct.” However, this itself is a fallacy meant to stop the reader from seriously considering the validity of the information presented. If known liars and cranks that manipulate data are to be treated the same as scientific analysis, including when groups like the Arab League find no evidence of genocide, then you should certainly trust anti-imperialist reporting like from the Grayzone when it presents information clearly debunking RationalWiki and Adrian Zenz.
Edit: to respond to a few of your edits, you were homophobic by saying I am defending “daddy Xi,” using contextual societal shame towards gay relationships as a weapon against me discrediting far-right slander. As for your defense of the far-right, you’re defending a far-right CIA propagandist and a right-liberal opinion blog in wiki form.
You’re showing how Zenz’ estimations are baseless, and RationalWiki is wrong.
How?
Zenz invented numbers pulled from thin air from a tiny sample size.
Do you not know how to read? I literally gave an answer for this at the very start of my previous response.
You aren’t highlighting how the Grayzone is wrong…
I am though. Is “nuh uh” the best you’ve got?
…you’re proving RationalWiki’s problem with statistics and estimation, and highlighting your own willingness to overlook critical flaws in data analysis…
How? Expand on these baseless statements maybe? It’s also really funny how you’ve essentially turned this into a RationalWiki vs Grayzone argument.
…just to serve your own right-wing political ends.
I thought I was a post-left anarchist. But if you say so I guess.
Secondly, the top result article for “Uyghur genocide” circles back to reports by Zenz for allegations of genocide, and people referencing Zenz.
Hmm I wonder why. Maybe because he is a researcher in this topic?
I can go on and on, the most credible report is the UN report that you refuse to look at, and China’s response to it thoroughly debunks or contextualizes everything brought up.
You must be trolling at this point. Do you want me to repeat myself for the 4th time?
The reason you should read the reports is so that you can understand what the actual allegations are, rather than listening to a far-right christofascist propagandist paid by the US government to discredit China and other left wing groups.
Yes, the left wing group of… China…
Uyghur population growth in Xinjiang exceeeds the average population growth in Xinjiang.
As for rationalwiki being liberal, they absolutley are. For example, they call Friedrich Engels the “dictator of writing” on their “notable communists” subsection of the communism page…
Have you ever heard of jokes?
They also call every socialist leader a “dictator,” and include Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge an example of “communism.”
It’s a wiki, go and discuss changing it if you have evidence against these claims.
These people are not serious, they are liberals that maintain the US government’s line on its enemies to a T.
Damn. This RationalWiki conspiracy goes deep huh? Why are you so mad at this singular source I cited?
This goes well with your support of a literal CIA propagandist, Adrian Zenz.
Damn.
I’ve moved no goalposts.
Except for the ones you did. Instead of engaging with my rebuttal against the claim that Zenz lied about IUD rates, you immediately switched to how Arab League countries found no wrongdoing. Then when I gave a rebuttal to that you immediately switched to how “Zenz claimed to have interviewed 8 Uyghur people and deduced that millions must be incarcerated”. And then when I gave my rebuttal to that you very obviously didn’t read it and switched to how I’m homophobic and far right, how RationalWiki is liberal, and how Zenz is a douchebag.
You keep defending and dodging Zenz’ clear biases and proven track record of lying, manipulating data, and belief that China is the anti-christ.
Are you okay? Hallucinating? I never defended or dodged those things. I gave rebuttals. I acknowledged that he’s biased, but also acknowledged that that singular reason doesn’t make his research untrustworthy. I debunked your claims about him lying and manipulating. And I really couldn’t give two shits about how evangelical he is. It is also weird how you’re so focused on this one researcher.
For example, Zenz showed a picture of elderly people recieving medical care at a clinic, and used it to boost his “forced sterilization” theory.
Did he now? Where’s the source?
This is what Zenz writes…
Okay.
Why on Earth do you complain about creationists as though they have nothing worthy to say, while simultaneously using a crank propagandist that believes homosexuality is a sin, and that the rapture is coming within decades?
I never complained about creationists, nor did I ever say they have nothing worthy to say. I just referenced how creationists tend to omit parts of texts that hurt their feelings.
He also downplays actual islamophobia…
Okay. Like you continuing to poison the well doesn’t prove his research or data wrong.
RationalWiki tries to claim it is a fallacy to look at Zenz’ views and methodology…
No they don’t. RationalWiki addressed criticisms made against Zenz’s methodology, and accurately identified how using what kind of person Zenz is against his research is an ad hominem. And not ad hominem in the insult sense.
However, this itself is a fallacy meant to stop the reader from seriously considering the validity of the information presented.
If known liars and cranks that manipulate data are to be treated the same as scientific analysis…
You still haven’t proven any of this. But keep repeating. Maybe it’ll become reality.
…including when groups like the Arab League find no evidence of genocide…
then you should certainly trust anti-imperialist reporting like from the Grayzone when it presents information clearly debunking RationalWiki and Adrian Zenz.
I know how to read, rationalwiki is wrong. Again, they extrapolated numbers based on a tiny sample size. It’s pretty simple, RationalWiki goes to great lengths to justify the US State Department narrative. Funny that you cite another CIA cutout, Radio Free Asia. Statistical analysis shows no evidence of sterilization campaigns for Uyghur people.
You’re getting lost in the sauce, Zenz used this picture of a clinic as evidence of sterilization:
The reason why I focus on Zenz, is because the only “evidence” you’ve brought is from him alone. I asked you to read the UN report, and China’s response, and instead you decided that it’s better to keep going back to Adrian Zenz and the Xinjiang Police Files as your only allegations. I gave you something more credible to work with, with more serious allegations, and you instead picked RFA (CIA cutout), the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation (CIA cutout), Adrian Zenz (far-right professional propagandist, islamophobe, downplayer of Palestinian genocide, and christofascist homophobe), and one opinion blog.
The fact that independent muslim sources that found no evidence of genocide, and as such are in favorable trade agreements with China, does not in any way mean that they were pressured into doing so. Many orgs have gone to China to see the re-education centers in Xinjiang, and allegations of genocide have been dropped by everyone except CIA cutouts and western propagandists for lack of evidence.
Disengage if you want, but you can’t both disengage and get the last word in in the same comment. I’m not a troll, but I suspect you are.
You’re showing how Zenz’ estimations are baseless, and RationalWiki is wrong. Zenz invented numbers pulled from thin air from a tiny sample size. You aren’t highlighting how the Grayzone is wrong, you’re proving RationalWiki’s problem with statistics and estimation, and highlighting your own willingness to overlook critical flaws in data analysis just to serve your own right-wing political ends.
Secondly, the top result article for “Uyghur genocide” circles back to reports by Zenz for allegations of genocide, and people referencing Zenz. I can go on and on, the most credible report is the UN report that you refuse to look at, and China’s response to it thoroughly debunks or contextualizes everything brought up. The reason you should read the reports is so that you can understand what the actual allegations are, rather than listening to a far-right christofascist propagandist paid by the US government to discredit China and other left wing groups.
Uyghur population growth in Xinjiang exceeeds the average population growth in Xinjiang. Further, the “Xinjiang Police Files,” sourced by Zenz, contain entirely fabricated stories about the vast majority of the people in it (names redacted from the public release):
As for rationalwiki being liberal, they absolutley are. For example, they call Friedrich Engels the “dictator of writing” on their “notable communists” subsection of the communism page:
They also call every socialist leader a “dictator,” and include Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge an example of “communism.” These people are not serious, they are liberals that maintain the US government’s line on its enemies to a T. This goes well with your support of a literal CIA propagandist, Adrian Zenz.
I’ve moved no goalposts. You keep defending and dodging Zenz’ clear biases and proven track record of lying, manipulating data, and belief that China is the anti-christ. For example, Zenz showed a picture of elderly people recieving medical care at a clinic, and used it to boost his “forced sterilization” theory.
This is what Zenz writes:
Why on Earth do you complain about creationists as though they have nothing worthy to say, while simultaneously using a crank propagandist that believes homosexuality is a sin, and that the rapture is coming within decades?
He also downplays actual islamophobia:
RationalWiki tries to claim it is a fallacy to look at Zenz’ views and methodology, as “even the far-right can be correct.” However, this itself is a fallacy meant to stop the reader from seriously considering the validity of the information presented. If known liars and cranks that manipulate data are to be treated the same as scientific analysis, including when groups like the Arab League find no evidence of genocide, then you should certainly trust anti-imperialist reporting like from the Grayzone when it presents information clearly debunking RationalWiki and Adrian Zenz.
Edit: to respond to a few of your edits, you were homophobic by saying I am defending “daddy Xi,” using contextual societal shame towards gay relationships as a weapon against me discrediting far-right slander. As for your defense of the far-right, you’re defending a far-right CIA propagandist and a right-liberal opinion blog in wiki form.
How?
Do you not know how to read? I literally gave an answer for this at the very start of my previous response.
I am though. Is “nuh uh” the best you’ve got?
How? Expand on these baseless statements maybe? It’s also really funny how you’ve essentially turned this into a RationalWiki vs Grayzone argument.
I thought I was a post-left anarchist. But if you say so I guess.
Hmm I wonder why. Maybe because he is a researcher in this topic?
You must be trolling at this point. Do you want me to repeat myself for the 4th time?
Yes, the left wing group of… China…
No, it doesn’t.
Have you ever heard of jokes?
It’s a wiki, go and discuss changing it if you have evidence against these claims.
Damn. This RationalWiki conspiracy goes deep huh? Why are you so mad at this singular source I cited?
Damn.
Except for the ones you did. Instead of engaging with my rebuttal against the claim that Zenz lied about IUD rates, you immediately switched to how Arab League countries found no wrongdoing. Then when I gave a rebuttal to that you immediately switched to how “Zenz claimed to have interviewed 8 Uyghur people and deduced that millions must be incarcerated”. And then when I gave my rebuttal to that you very obviously didn’t read it and switched to how I’m homophobic and far right, how RationalWiki is liberal, and how Zenz is a douchebag.
Are you okay? Hallucinating? I never defended or dodged those things. I gave rebuttals. I acknowledged that he’s biased, but also acknowledged that that singular reason doesn’t make his research untrustworthy. I debunked your claims about him lying and manipulating. And I really couldn’t give two shits about how evangelical he is. It is also weird how you’re so focused on this one researcher.
Did he now? Where’s the source?
Okay.
I never complained about creationists, nor did I ever say they have nothing worthy to say. I just referenced how creationists tend to omit parts of texts that hurt their feelings.
Okay. Like you continuing to poison the well doesn’t prove his research or data wrong.
No they don’t. RationalWiki addressed criticisms made against Zenz’s methodology, and accurately identified how using what kind of person Zenz is against his research is an ad hominem. And not ad hominem in the insult sense.
Oh yes, the Fallacy of Stopping the Reader from Seriously Considering the Validity of the Information Presented. Look, they even have a page for it 🤡.
They indeed point out how his beliefs call for significant scrutiny to his research:
And it’s really weird how you’re still so focused on this singular source I cited.
You still haven’t proven any of this. But keep repeating. Maybe it’ll become reality.
Yeah, the anti-imperialist reporting from… the pro-kremlin, antivax, anti-renewable Grayzone.
At this point I’m fully convinced that you’re a troll. If anybody isn’t, I feel sorry for them. Disengage.
I know how to read, rationalwiki is wrong. Again, they extrapolated numbers based on a tiny sample size. It’s pretty simple, RationalWiki goes to great lengths to justify the US State Department narrative. Funny that you cite another CIA cutout, Radio Free Asia. Statistical analysis shows no evidence of sterilization campaigns for Uyghur people.
You’re getting lost in the sauce, Zenz used this picture of a clinic as evidence of sterilization:
The reason why I focus on Zenz, is because the only “evidence” you’ve brought is from him alone. I asked you to read the UN report, and China’s response, and instead you decided that it’s better to keep going back to Adrian Zenz and the Xinjiang Police Files as your only allegations. I gave you something more credible to work with, with more serious allegations, and you instead picked RFA (CIA cutout), the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation (CIA cutout), Adrian Zenz (far-right professional propagandist, islamophobe, downplayer of Palestinian genocide, and christofascist homophobe), and one opinion blog.
The fact that independent muslim sources that found no evidence of genocide, and as such are in favorable trade agreements with China, does not in any way mean that they were pressured into doing so. Many orgs have gone to China to see the re-education centers in Xinjiang, and allegations of genocide have been dropped by everyone except CIA cutouts and western propagandists for lack of evidence.
Disengage if you want, but you can’t both disengage and get the last word in in the same comment. I’m not a troll, but I suspect you are.