userdb: add birthDate field to JSON user records by dylanmtaylor · Pull Request #40954 · systemd/systemd
github.com
Stores the user's birth date for age verification, as required by recent laws in California (AB-1043), Colorado (SB26-051), Brazil (Lei 15.211/2025), etc. The xdg-desktop-portal project is addi...

Fork time? Maybe all the anti-systemd zealots were right all along…

Edit: To address whether it is likely that this change will affect users: Gnome is planning a stronger dependence on userdb, the part of systemd where this change is being implemented. https://blogs.gnome.org/adrianvovk/2025/06/10/gnome-systemd-dependencies/

Final Edit: The PR has been merged into main.

  • amadaluzia@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
    142·
    2 days ago

    I’ll start off my comment with something everyone can agree on: the age verification laws absolutely sucks. It’s a surveillance law masquerading as a means of “protecting” children. It also completely undermines free and open source projects, and therefore, protected speech. The fact systemd had to add a BirthDate field is unfortunate, however, I would blame the lawmakers for creating the law that the developers of systemd now have to comply with.

    I’m okay with the implementation. It is an optional (meaning you have to add it yourself) field which only specifies the date of birth. It doesn’t seem to be at all invasive, nor does it attempt to “verify” it at the moment. Granted, anything is possible, but I don’t think there’s a good enough reason why systemd would EVER feel the need to add age verification. Before you say anything regarding corporations, please answer this: why would a corporation add age verification to a system manager their servers depend on? How will that profit them?

    I get why people are angry, but I think this anger should be funneled towards the lawmakers pulling off nonsense like this. Fight those who are actively trying to take your rights away. Bullying software developers for complying to international laws will lead to nothing but hate.

    • Eggymatrix@sh.itjust.works
      12·
      17 hours ago

      Yea, fucking americans supposed democracy ruining the day again, thanks guys for freeing us all once fucking again

      Then come the script kiddies hating on systemd for doing the actual work necessary for not getting linux banned in the “free” word and acting like this is some kind of gamestop organization action.

    • Internet@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      82·
      2 days ago

      Nah this is more systemd bloat and certainly invites criticism. Other inits aren’t even commenting, let alone complying.

      • Eggymatrix@sh.itjust.works
        21·
        17 hours ago

        Other inits are not relevant, because of their own choice to not do the job correctly last time they had a chance to

        • amadaluzia@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
          3·
          17 hours ago

          I believe those other init systems we’re in the right to, but that’s only because they are JUST init systems. systemd can because it doesn’t just provide an init system, it provide a suite of tools for Linux system management. Something like userdb would have to be implemented by another tool, where they could actually implement BirthDate if they so choose to (and probably should for it’s continued existence).

      • amadaluzia@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
        5·
        2 days ago

        Other inits aren’t even commenting, let alone complying.

        This would be a fair point, if systemd wasn’t more than an init system. While a service manager (init system) is included, systemd is a system manager. OpenRC, runit, and other init systems do not need to comment because their only task is to mount the necessary file systems, setup the device manager, and start daemons1. systemd as a system manager not only needs to manage services, but it also needs to manage devices, logs, the hostname, etc.

        Does this mean systemd is not bloat? Not at all, but it is not as fat as you think it is. Your system could honestly be fatter without systemd if you try to replicate everything it does with external applications. Does this mean systemd should also be justified to add an optional field for your date of birth? I guess I would say it’s weird on it’s own. However, given the context, I believe they are doing what they can.

          • amadaluzia@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
            2·
            19 hours ago

            Unfortunate. However, it seems that is snapd’s fault. Here’s the important part from the article:

            Ubuntu automatically deletes old files from the /tmp directory after a certain number of days. During this cleanup, an important directory used by snap-confine may get removed.

            Ubuntu configured systemd-tmpfiles to clean out /tmp after some days. That’s why the issue is only present in Ubuntu systems. Therefore, systemd was doing it’s job, and it just so happened to create the perfect conditions for a vulnerability in Ubuntu.

  • PieMePlenty@lemmy.world
    322·
    2 days ago

    Looks like this is just for storing the data (birth date). Distros can use it and do age restriction or ignore it. Not a big deal imo. Its not like systemd does anything more with the date.

      • wewbull@feddit.ukEnglish
        141·
        2 days ago

        Unless you’re randomising it constantly, it still becomes part of a fingerprint for you.

        • Jolteon@lemmy.zip
          41·
          2 days ago

          The fingerprint is already pretty effective. Putting something like 01/01/1970 would add a small amount of precision, but likely not enough to make a difference.

  • Geki@lemmy.ml
    453·
    2 days ago

    Why do the rest of us have to have this shit added in our systems just because some Yankees (and Brazil) passed some bills? My country has already said they won’t be doing any age verification shit. I’m starting to think there’s some big conspiracy here that FOSS isn’t as independent as we believe it is.

    • Ulu-Mulu-no-die@lemmy.zip
      81·
      2 days ago

      FOSS isn’t as independent as we believe it is

      Some parts are indeed sponsored by corporations, that’s not a bad thing per se because financial support is important.

      Problems arise when corporations push changes solely for their own interest instead of the benefit of the community, this PR seems to be that case.

    • jefferyjefferson@lemmy.org
      64·
      2 days ago

      Unfortunately, the internet at large has been embracing cuck behavior and capitulation for years.

      They are genuinely excited to be a bunch of scared little bitches eager to please their masters.

  • Skullgrid@lemmy.world
    397·
    3 days ago

    Final Edit: The PR has been merged into main.

    Fucking hell. All he had to do was fucking nothing, the bastard.

    https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/revoluciana-facing-fascism-sabotage

    Sabotage sounds spicy. It sounds dangerous.

    And yet, the underlying concept is simply this: inefficiency.

    I told you last time, make every inch have its cost.

    Resistance does not have to be violent, and that’s not something I’m advocating here. Resistance is the word no. Resistance is standing in place. Resistance is pushing.

    Resistance is the albatross around the neck of your opposition. Resistance is the anchor that drags along the sea floor.

    Here are some incredibly mundane but effective examples from the manual:

    Make mistakes with purchasing travel tickets

    Make engineering mistakes

    Make long speeches and waste time

    Act ignorant, or ask a lot of questions: if you’re not familiar with the concept of sea-lioning, you should really learn it

    Take longer to do your work

    Even if you’re terrified of doing more, this is simply a place to start.

    You are someone and you have a responsibility to do something.

    You cannot make it easier for the fascists to achieve their goals. You can’t do it today, and you can’t do it later if they claim authority. You must stand in the way of oppression.

    This is fucking horseshit. I’m turning against fucking systemd , and I had no fucking opinion before, now it’s completely clear they’re a bunch of 1940s IBM wannabees.

    EDIT : What a surprise, the fucker that wrote the PR works for IBM and “A Medical Malpractice company” and the one that merged it works for Microsoft.

    • communism@lemmy.ml
      1·
      2 days ago

      The origin of inefficiency as resistance comes from people in concentration camps deliberately doing poor jobs at forced labour as a form of resistance. If you’re posting on Lemmy right now you can do a lot more than inefficiency. The people who had to resort to inefficient slave labour as resistance could only dream of what you can do.

          • Skullgrid@lemmy.world
            11·
            2 days ago

            Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis The Wise? I thought not. It’s not a story the Jedi would tell you. It’s a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life… He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying. The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. He became so powerful… the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. Ironic. He could save others from death, but not himself.

  • iByteABit@lemmy.ml
    455·
    3 days ago

    Wow that’s an insane level of bootlicking, it was completely free for them to do absolutely nothing about this nonsense law and give the middle finger if asked by the US

    I didn’t care before but it turns out the systemd haters were on to something for a long time, fuck these owners for even considering this and even locking the PR to avoid valid criticism, I hope all the contributors create a fork, jump ship and never let the previous owners commit a single line of code to it

    • Homosexual sapiens@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      52·
      2 days ago

      It adds an optional birthdate field to userdb. The desktop does not have to populate it. I’m honestly surprised this wasn’t already a field in UserDB

    • Liketearsinrain@lemmy.ml
      211·
      3 days ago

      It does not help that non insignificant amounts of systemd criticism comes from Lunduke and gang, often ignoring the actual technical problems with systemd and turning into culture war.

      I don’t mean you, just my thoughts.

    • Ulu-Mulu-no-die@lemmy.zipEnglish
      23·
      3 days ago

      Guilty as charged xD

      I know the debate around systemd is going on for quite some time, I understood the basic reasoning behind it but I don’t have the technical knowledge required to truly decide for myself, so I just didn’t pay too much attention to it and followed what my distro of choice does.

      The good thing about this “new development” is that it’s not just a tech debate anymore, it has such wider implications that it’ll be much easier for people to decide where to be.

      • wewbull@feddit.ukEnglish
        151·
        3 days ago

        A large part of the disagreement was never a tech debate. Systemd on a purely technical level had advantages, but the arguments were always about a concentration of functionality into a single critical program. Great while things are going well. Hell when it falls apart. That fear wasn’t totally based in technical reasoning.

        • Ulu-Mulu-no-die@lemmy.zipEnglish
          2·
          2 days ago

          There is indeed a philosophical part to it around the “do one thing and do it well”, but what you call “fear” is not an totally unfounded concern, in that it’s true that the more complex a piece of software is, the more complex maintenance also is.

          But you need serious technical knowledge to fully understand everything that systemd does compared to sysvinit, what are the advantages of this new system and how much its complexity can actually affect maintenance (or not).

          I don’t have that kind of knowledge, you could explain to me all the technical advantages systemd has but I wouldn’t be able to understand them, so I just trust distro maintainers in doing what they believe it’s best for their distro and I never considered the init system as a parameter to choose what distro I want to use, I just use what’s in the distro.

          Now it’s different, because adding a field to comply with a moronic law pushed by Meta to avoid fines has truly nothing to do with technical reasoning, you don’t need any tech knowledge to understand that, anyone can.

    • eldavi@lemmy.mlEnglish
      4·
      3 days ago

      i’m going to start dyeing mine so that people won’t just keep ignoring me like some old man yelling at the neighborhood kids to get off his lawn. lol

    • lilith267@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
      18·
      3 days ago

      SystemD isnt exactly a program but more of a group of projects, the only “core” SystemD software on most distros is the init system… Which you can run completely without SystemD’s UserDB system (the part being talked about in the post).

      Basically this means you as a user dont have to do anything but switch away from projects that depend on SystemD’s UserDB (like Gnome), not SystemD as a whole

      However if you do want to move away from SystemD as a whole you can replace your init system with another one, gentoo’s wiki is a good starting point for learning a bit more: wiki. Personally I love using openrc but of you have no need to touch init files… Dont switch

      • Oinks@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        8·
        2 days ago

        Basically this means you as a user dont have to do anything but switch away from projects that depend on SystemD’s UserDB (like Gnome), not SystemD as a whole

        You can also just… not put your PII into UserDB. It can store clear names, mail addresses, postal addresses and now birthdates… but it can also just serve as an interface to /etc/passwd. Which conveniently also works with LDAP accounts (unlike your hand written /etc/passwd parser) if you’re an organisation that uses LDAP.

        This is the entirety of what UserDB knows about me:

        userdbctl user --output=json $(whoami)
{
        "userName" : "sky",
        "uid" : 1000,
        "gid" : 100,
        "homeDirectory" : "/users/sky/home"
        "shell" : "/run/current-system/sw/bin/fish"
}

        I don’t expect that to change with this PR.

      • kieron115@startrek.websiteEnglish
        2·
        3 days ago

        Thanks for explaining it a bit more. I moved from Windows 11 to CachyOS (limine bootloader and kde plasma DE) sometime last year and that may be a bit above my paygrade right now. Based on what I’m seeing in the Arch Wiki it would seem that quite a few systemd components are in use for my distro.

    • Agent641@lemmy.world
      143·
      2 days ago

      Just use something simple with systemd. The Linux community is its own worst enemy, in inviting people to come to Linux because it’s so simple and beginner friendly, then the trap snaps shut and they tell you to pick a distro and all you have to do is decide on either gnome, plasma or cinnamon, and between arch and debian and ubuntu, and between snap and Flatpack, between Vim, Emacs, nano, and micro, between Wayland and the other one, between systemd and violent self-fellagelation, and whatever you choose, make sure it’s FOSS and exactly what the next person on the forum used and as pure as the driven snow or you’ll be bullied, belittled, and trolled by egomaniacs, elitists, and gatekeepers until you fawn like a thrashed housewife who ‘only gets hit when she fucks up’, or you give up and install windows again.

      Just use whatever works for you, makes your life easier, and avoid the Linux purity circlejerk. When it stops working for you, use something else. Go your own way.

      If you don’t know what systemd does and you aren’t affected by this, use it. If there’s closed source software you wanna run, run it. If you want to install a snap, do it. If you like using VS code, install it on your Linux, it works great. You will never be pure enough to satisfy the Linux community.

      • RumRunningDevil@lemmy.zip
        21·
        2 days ago

        Okay but not really? Systemd does not really provide that much usability that any other init system + elogind doesn’t. The benefit to the FOSS environment is that we, as users and developers, can starve out bad actors.

        Want Nix but don’t like systemd? Guix. Want Arch but don’t like systemd? Void. You know what “compile” means and don’t want systemd? Gentoo.

    • pedz@lemmy.ca
      4·
      2 days ago

      Most distributions use systemd but there are still distros and other unix-like operating systems that are using something else. However, they are not “user friendly” and will probably not be what most people are looking for.

      Slackware uses its own init system and never used systemd but it has the reputation of being difficult to use. Gentoo also lets users choose between systemd and OpenRC. Alpine Linux uses OpenRC too. There’s more than a dozen distros not using systemd, but again, probably not what most people want to use. It’s also possible to replace systemd with OpenRC on some distros, but it possibly, probably, might cause some quirks.

      Otherwise, there are other unix-like operating systems. Debian GNU Hurd also has its own init system but it’s not using the Linux kernel, so it’s a different beast. OpenBSD and FreeBSD also have their own init system, but not Linux. And AFAIK there’s no such thing as modern gaming on those.

      There are ways not to use systemd, but realistically speaking, it will probably not be worth it unless you’re really militant about this. I started with Slackware at the end of the 90ies, I know how to compile a kernel, and tried GNU Hurd at some point, but I will not change something unless it’s really implemented deeper into the general software. It’s frustrating that the systemd devs are “collaborating”, but we’ll see what happens after a few rounds of updates.

    • DFX4509B@lemmy.wtfEnglish
      1·
      2 days ago

      Alt-init distros exist but it’s only a matter of time before either they’re screwed or age-gating goes down to firmware or hardware level.

  • CrackedLinuxISO@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    387·
    3 days ago

    Has anyone even looked at the PR? Why is there such a big stink about adding an optional birthday field to a JSON schema? It’s opt-in and can’t be validated in any way.

    That’s like saying OpenSSL is the thin end of an anti-encryption wedge because they provide FIPS compliant modules. Or complaining that it puts your privacy at risk when you generate an SSH key and it asks for your address.

    The problem is the laws getting passed, not with software that gives people a choice about whether to comply.

    • skyline2@lemmy.dbzer0.comOP
      242·
      3 days ago

      Yes, the PR specifically calls out the laws as the reason for this change. The problem is BOTH the laws getting passed, and corporate interests complying in advance.

    • Brargenzilian@lemmy.orgEnglish
      24·
      3 days ago

      … can’t be validated in any way.

      I feel like this will be a problem for the future.

      Edit: another user already pointed out the “problem for the future” here.

      • CrackedLinuxISO@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        6·
        3 days ago

        It definitely will be a problem, but it will be a legal problem, not a software problem. Even if the systemd devs decided to revert this commit and never collect age data, the law would still be just a shitty as it is now.

        If this law said that everyone needed to provide a phone number instead of a birthday, would everyone here be just as angry at the Bell Labs developers who wrote the GECOS standard?

    • Atomic@sh.itjust.works
      193·
      3 days ago

      Personally, I just don’t like the taste of asslicking in my distributions. Time to change to a non systemd distro.

    • ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml
      2·
      2 days ago

      The problem is the laws getting passed, not with software that gives people a choice about whether to comply.

      Is it going to give a choice, though? As more and more of these laws are passed, soon people will have no choice. Open-source software was supposed to be about freedom, and I see this as anything but that.

    • Skullgrid@lemmy.world
      104·
      3 days ago

      The problem is the laws getting passed, not with software that gives people a choice about whether to comply.

      OK, but the law didn’t even get written. That asshole decided to open up and deepthroat the boot before it even entered the room.

  • stravanasu@lemmy.ca
    1132·
    3 days ago

    Something feels fishy… The user who made this pull request has more than doubled his contributions to various repositories since January (from 20–400 to more than 1100), and this is his first pull request in the systemd repo.

      • Geki@lemmy.ml
        71·
        2 days ago

        That guy is either a massive bootlicker or a fucking plant. Who goes around vulentarily adding birth date fields to EVERY project they can contribute to?

    • Buddahriffic@lemmy.world
      9·
      3 days ago

      This is a big weakness in FOSS communities, hell, in capitalist existence. People with resources can afford to spend their own time or hire someone else to focus on their contributions like a full time job while most honest contributers will be doing it during their free time because they need to pay bills and such.

    • LincolnsDogFido@lemmy.zip
      131·
      3 days ago

      Fishy how? As in a state-level backdooring like was the case with XZ and Jia Tan or are you weary of something else?

      • stravanasu@lemmy.ca
        14·
        3 days ago

        That memory surely also prompted this feeling. It’s just that Meta seems to be putting a lot of effort everywhere to push for this. Not so difficult to put, or corrupt, or push, people in dev communities and repos.

  • davel [he/him]@lemmy.mlEnglish
    1511·
    4 days ago

    Unless it is fought, this corporate-driven rot will burrow all the way down to the sub-processor TEE/TPM and all the way up to the web browser/app.

      • tyler@programming.dev
        30·
        3 days ago

        Email your legislators telling them that parents already have access to network block tools, these laws won’t stop the problem anyway (run through a vpn), they’re a free speech nightmare, they’re collecting more data on American citizens when America has data breaches losing data every few days, and Congress literally studied this twenty years ago and decided it wasn’t a good idea then, what makes it a good idea now?

        • IronBird@lemmy.world
          16·
          3 days ago

          uh…$? same reason the majority of US politicians vote anyway on anything put in front of them.

          the only thing sacred in the USA is $

      • krashmo@lemmy.world
        27·
        3 days ago

        I’ll never buy a computer that can’t be run without this shit. If that means I run what I have until it breaks and then never have a PC again then that’s what I’ll do

        • wltr@discuss.tchncs.de
          5·
          3 days ago

          The last computer I bought (a couple of years back) was a decade old PC, the price was €10 or so. I needed to add RAM, SSD, and used it for a couple of years as a Fedora Workstation desktop. It was plenty powerful for most of my needs. I’m not too worried about it. I think I can survive on a machine like that.

      • antrosapien@lemmy.ml
        3·
        3 days ago

        What if users are redefined as context? Now the is does not have users anymore. That’s not a ‘root’ user, it’s a ‘root’ context. And that’s non root context with supercontext privileges

      • Orygin@sh.itjust.works
        34·
        3 days ago

        The least effective way is whining on a Lemmy community about open source projects.
        Go talk to your lawmakers, not the people complying with the law.

  • CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world
    1287·
    3 days ago

    I was ambivalent about systemd up until now. If this gets merged I’m moving to a non-systemd distro. I do not live in California or even the USA. I do not want age verification garbage in my OS.

    • Holytimes@sh.itjust.works
      29·
      3 days ago

      Iv not given a shit one way or another as well. But as a Californian I refuse to have this shit on my PC damn be what the law says.

    • corsicanguppy@lemmy.caEnglish
      141·
      3 days ago

      Consider PCLinuxOS: they’re an RPM-based mandriva (mandrake/conectiva) derivative with really great and wide compatibility in stacks without the ‘modules’ shitfest RH started after no one remembered what ‘alternatives’ was for.

      They don’t use systemd, but their installation is a bit shite as it’s a “live CD” installer – they pruned out the proper templatey install that mandriva has. But so far that’s the biggest issue. If they can get off networkManager we’ll be even better off, though.

      • CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world
        142·
        3 days ago

        It’s being added as a response to the age verification laws with the intended purpose to provide the age signal.

        It’s age verification/attestation.

        • Orygin@sh.itjust.works
          49·
          3 days ago

          No. It’s a date of birth. You’re right that age verification comes next, but this is not it. Had this field been present before, none of this would matter.

          Contact your representative, not your local FOSS maintainer.

          • Atomic@sh.itjust.works
            113·
            3 days ago

            Contact your representative, not your local FOSS maintainer.

            They’re not a US citizen.

            They also didn’t say they would contact the maintainers. They said they’d just change distro to a non-systemd one.

            And you’re nothing but silly trying to act like this isn’t about age “verification”. We know it is, because it comes in response to the new california law

          • CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world
            52·
            3 days ago

            Contact your representative

            Right, so that they can ask if I’m stoned or stupid for asking them to affect laws in another country?

            • Orygin@sh.itjust.works
              27·
              3 days ago

              Then this doesn’t impact you in any form. (Especially since it’s just a DoB).
              You can continue to whine but frankly I don’t see the point then.

              • lucas@startrek.websiteEnglish
                41·
                2 days ago

                Of course it does. This particular change may seem innocuous in itself, but the idea of compliance with ridiculous laws like this one, in one jurisdiction, being implemented in a project used globally will result in compromising everyone’s privacy/security, regardless of whether they are even subject to that law or not.

                If anything, it’s more troubling for those outside the relevant jurisdiction, since we get 0 say on the laws, and have no actual reason to comply.