Man… how many bricks to the side of y’all’s head do we have to take to get you to understand that a) an election isn’t about individual choice, and b) telling people what to do with their votes is counter productive.
If you were doing in 2023/24 what you are doing now, with that comment: You’re why fascism won.
You aren’t part of the collective that got it right. You’re being the shit lib who handed the world to the fascists.
Fascism won because the Democratic party didn’t want to adopt an anti-genocide stance. Its not harm reduction when it enables the harm. Its not strategic voting when the strategy backfires.
You’re an apologist for fascism if you are blaming voters.
Trump is the fascist. I’m not apologizing for fascism, I hate it with a burning passion. I’m simply stating that anyone who allowed him to get elected was enabling fascism.
Stop trying to obfuscate things by acting like Biden and Harris were as bad as trump.
So what did getting trump elected do for the genocide?
(Hint: if you say anything other than accelerate it with the explicit intention of seeing it through to completion, then you’re wrong)
You can’t hide the fact that the situation in gaza wouldn’t be as bad as it is now, if Kamala Harris won in 2024. So unless you think harm reduction is a myth, then you don’t really have a point.
Saying something over and over doesn’t mean its true.
That said, I hate both the DNC and the non-voters. I can do both. If free will exists, then I can blame both. (I mean I don’t believe in free will, but on an emotional level fuck both anyway, I don’t owe either of them shit.)
I voted for them for tactical purposes. Both because at the time I cared about the well being of my fellow human beings and I care about my own well being. These days I’m not so sure I care about humans or even myself. I’m still grappling with the point of it all now that we’re doomed.
I understand that tactics aren’t likely your strong suit, so let me make it clear: I do not have to love the democrats as a party to vote for them. I just have to have a basic grip on reality that it was either them or fascism. Because its first past the post we are dealing with.
I am saying that objectively looking at the outcome of the election means that running and supporting a pro genocide campaign was a tactical and strategic failure. You shouldn’t do that in the future.
There are many ways to interpret this response. Some are reasonable (HRC did pied piper because she thought it’d help her win) and some are unhinged and stupid (Liberals are fascists).
My tactics were to vote in primaries (when they were available…) for progressive dems. I voted for Bernie Sander’s twice. But then I voted HRC and Biden, and Harris when they were the liberal slop candidates that we got. Because the alternative was helping a fascist win.
My tactics were to canvass, advocate, donate time and money to progressive causes. And when the progressives did not fucking win the primaries, I gritted my teeth and did the same for the centrist dems.
And you know what, sure. Those tactics failed, because US citizens on average are completely selfish and stupid pieces of shit. I don’t owe your glorious revolution my life. I did not choose to be here in this hellscape, that your own advocacy helped create.
So you did what they wanted you to do, vote for the sheepdog in the primary to give you the illusion of choice and progress, they push the sheepdog aside and you are forced to vote for the candidate they wanted you to vote for from the beginning.
The only failed tactic is liberals using the same failed ones over and over, thinking this time has got to be different.
Yeah man its all just an illusion right. All the leaders are coordinating in perfect harmony to manipulate me.
Biden, in his demented state, purposefully selected Harris to serve the interests of capital… and not his own ego because she was his VP. He wasn’t insulted at all when they finally started to insist that he move aside and pick the least charismatic fucking option imaginable as a fuck you to the rest of his own party.
You know… sometimes people in power are just fucking stupid flawed narcissists. Just like the average dipshit voter is.
The revolution is going fine. 2 years ago around here, and on all social media, Democrats and Biden could do no wrong. Biden could provide the weapons to kill 10k children and Dems would still back him. Fast forward their polling numbers are in the tank, public acknowledgment that the party and it’s candidates are shit and they are tired of the same old failed policies and tactics. ‘Lesser evil’ is unacceptable because it’s not lesser.
My revolution? No one is advocating for a glorious revolution. You’re learning about the limits of electoral politics in a capitalist system. Your solution to this is to give up? That’s your right if that’s what you want.
But I don’t think you’ll actually have a choice about dying in this way.
And I think if you’re going to just give up then telling others how to vote is pretty rude.
Saying something over and over doesn’t mean its true.
Denying reality over and over again doesn’t make you right and the perspective you are espousing was the dominant narrative up until the elective. That individually voters just needed to “do better”. You want to blame voters; you need them to win elections. Explain to me how you plan on getting back the 6% of Democratic voters you lost using your approach? You blamed them for failure before the contest was even run and they didn’t show up for you. Now what? How does your analysis change their minds into showing up?
What you are doing is the same thing petroleum companies did around recycling in the 90s. By believing this is some negotiation of individual choice, you are obscuring the fact that the Democrats structurally undermined their own ability to stop fascism. Blaming the individual is why fascism won.
You want to blame voters; you need them to win elections. Explain to me how you plan on getting back the 6% of Democratic voters you lost using your approach?
I don’t need to win shit anymore. I don’t care, its obviously a fool’s errand to give a shit. The 2024 US election taught me that. All worrying about politics does is hurt me and waste my time with fools.
You blamed them for failure before the contest was even run and they didn’t show up for you. Now what? How does your analysis change their minds into showing up?
All that’s left is rot, so I’m going to pick through the garbage and hope to find some gems before we all drown in shit. My analysis is just based on brutal reality. They did not show up “for themselves” as well. Its not just me they’ve hurt. Leopards are eating faces, and not all the owners of those faces are “shitlibs” and MAGA, some of them are protestors who didn’t vote.
There is no means for me to change people’s minds on voting so you don’t need worry about me trying. I just want people to understand that the very virtue obsessed moral framework they are using to make their decision to not vote has hurt them. Its doomed them. I want them to feel bad about it because in so far that someone can deserve to feel bad about it, they definitely should.
What you are doing is the same thing petroleum companies did around recycling in the 90s. By believing this is some negotiation of individual choice, you are obscuring the fact that the Democrats structurally undermined their own ability to stop fascism. Blaming the individual is why fascism won.
No its not. In a purely rational sense, I don’t really blame anyone. Free will doesn’t actually exist.
But within the context of people I can like, dislike, or hate as the emotional creature that I am: I definitely can fucking loathe multiple groups at the same time and feel catharsis at their suffering.
I think you are still operating under the delusion that this second Trump term is something we will escape from, but the thing is, bad times don’t create good times. They create more bad times. We are in the gravity well of a metaphorical political and environmental black hole, and you are in denial.
The dems will win in 2028, and it wont matter much, other than we’ll get some sweet painkillers as we pass into oblivion. Because the GOP will win in 2032. Or society will completely collapse. Or the globe will roast all of our food and we’ll all starve. There are not much in the way of good things to look forward to.
You need to do the work to undo the Fascism you enabled. Simple as. Make it clear in this next election cycle that no oro ice, pro genocide candidates get your vote. And it’s not because you individually won’t vote for them. You need to make it clear that if the candidate doesn’t move to your more moral policy positions, they don’t get to have your vote.
Your individual vote doesn’t matter. Neither does mine. What matters is the 6% left on the table by Harris being pro genocide. We’ve got to to get them back which means you have to do the work of cleaning out the cynicism you injected into the system by insisting people vote or genocide.
I can see both sides of this. Yes, the moral and proper thing to do is to be anti-genocide and to take an anti-Israal, anti-Zionist position after the Gaza invasion. We were right to insist upon it as a condition for our vote and whoever the Dem nominee was should have taken a hard anti-Gaza war stance. However, the reality of the situation is that the vile monsters that control the party didn’t listen to us and ignored or talked around this issue for those sweet, sweet AIPAC dollars. We all know that they didn’t listen to us for an entire year. This was the reality on election day.
Knowing this, if you still voted for Trump, a third party, or “not at all” on election day instead of holding your nose and voting for Harris, you are just as responsible for the fascism we have now as any shitlib who was screaming at anyone and everyone to “fuck off, and fall in line” or “vote blue no matter who” before and during the election.
You didn’t have to tell anyone you were going vote for Harris. In fact, we should have been telling the Dem party that we will refuse to vote for them right up until the end. Hell, you can still deny today that you ever voted for Harris in 2024, as long as you actually did in secret.
Man… how many bricks to the side of y’all’s head do we have to take to get you to understand that a) an election isn’t about individual choice, and b) telling people what to do with their votes is counter productive.
If you were doing in 2023/24 what you are doing now, with that comment: You’re why fascism won.
You aren’t part of the collective that got it right. You’re being the shit lib who handed the world to the fascists.
Fascism won because millions of people refused to vote against it, because the alternative wasn’t perfect.
Stop blaming the people who literally voted against fascism. Does believing in harm reduction make one a “shitlib” in your view?
Fascism won because the Democratic party didn’t want to adopt an anti-genocide stance. Its not harm reduction when it enables the harm. Its not strategic voting when the strategy backfires.
You’re an apologist for fascism if you are blaming voters.
Biden and Harris were nowhere near as bad for Gaza as trump is, and papering over that detail hasn’t helped the situation
An entire fucking genocide happened under their “deeply concerned” watch bruh.
Stop apologizing for fascism.
Trump is the fascist. I’m not apologizing for fascism, I hate it with a burning passion. I’m simply stating that anyone who allowed him to get elected was enabling fascism.
Stop trying to obfuscate things by acting like Biden and Harris were as bad as trump.
Ahh yes. The “I’m not pro genocide, I’m just advocating for the candidates who are pro genocide”.
If you argued people needed to vote for Harris instead of advocating that Harris needed to change her stance, you are pro genocide.
So what did getting trump elected do for the genocide?
(Hint: if you say anything other than accelerate it with the explicit intention of seeing it through to completion, then you’re wrong)
You can’t hide the fact that the situation in gaza wouldn’t be as bad as it is now, if Kamala Harris won in 2024. So unless you think harm reduction is a myth, then you don’t really have a point.
Its fucking irrelevant because she lost the fucking election supporting a genocide.
Saying something over and over doesn’t mean its true.
That said, I hate both the DNC and the non-voters. I can do both. If free will exists, then I can blame both. (I mean I don’t believe in free will, but on an emotional level fuck both anyway, I don’t owe either of them shit.)
You hated the DNC so much you voted for them and defend their actions tooth and nail?
I voted for them for tactical purposes. Both because at the time I cared about the well being of my fellow human beings and I care about my own well being. These days I’m not so sure I care about humans or even myself. I’m still grappling with the point of it all now that we’re doomed.
I understand that tactics aren’t likely your strong suit, so let me make it clear: I do not have to love the democrats as a party to vote for them. I just have to have a basic grip on reality that it was either them or fascism. Because its first past the post we are dealing with.
Well then tactically you fucked up lol
You either don’t understand what tactics mean or you have some really Pepe Silvia shit to share with me.
You voted for genocide and still lost. Tactical and strategic woopsie.
So you don’t understand what tactics are. Or at least are pretending not to.
Ok. How was this successful tactically?
Everyone has lost, and there’s more genocide.
Well there’s the same amount of genocide. But yes, we agree, and that means voting this way was a tactical and strategic failure.
Ah yes, because giving Trump the win instead has ended genocide and improved the lives of millions
Jfc you idiot. YOU STILL GAVE TRUMP THE WIN!!
I am saying that objectively looking at the outcome of the election means that running and supporting a pro genocide campaign was a tactical and strategic failure. You shouldn’t do that in the future.
Who do you think helped prop up and build the foundations for fascism? That’s what your tactics resulted in.
There are many ways to interpret this response. Some are reasonable (HRC did pied piper because she thought it’d help her win) and some are unhinged and stupid (Liberals are fascists).
My tactics were to vote in primaries (when they were available…) for progressive dems. I voted for Bernie Sander’s twice. But then I voted HRC and Biden, and Harris when they were the liberal slop candidates that we got. Because the alternative was helping a fascist win.
My tactics were to canvass, advocate, donate time and money to progressive causes. And when the progressives did not fucking win the primaries, I gritted my teeth and did the same for the centrist dems.
And you know what, sure. Those tactics failed, because US citizens on average are completely selfish and stupid pieces of shit. I don’t owe your glorious revolution my life. I did not choose to be here in this hellscape, that your own advocacy helped create.
So you did what they wanted you to do, vote for the sheepdog in the primary to give you the illusion of choice and progress, they push the sheepdog aside and you are forced to vote for the candidate they wanted you to vote for from the beginning.
The only failed tactic is liberals using the same failed ones over and over, thinking this time has got to be different.
Yeah man its all just an illusion right. All the leaders are coordinating in perfect harmony to manipulate me.
Biden, in his demented state, purposefully selected Harris to serve the interests of capital… and not his own ego because she was his VP. He wasn’t insulted at all when they finally started to insist that he move aside and pick the least charismatic fucking option imaginable as a fuck you to the rest of his own party.
You know… sometimes people in power are just fucking stupid flawed narcissists. Just like the average dipshit voter is.
You should evaluate your tactics and evaluate the limits of electoralism then. And you should adjust accordingly.
I am not going to fight and die in your stupid dumb fuck revolution (that will happen any day now I’m sure).
My tactics have changed: Understand that I can’t fix things. That I am wasting my short life trying to. Its time to seek the most pleasant oblivion.
deleted by creator
The revolution is going fine. 2 years ago around here, and on all social media, Democrats and Biden could do no wrong. Biden could provide the weapons to kill 10k children and Dems would still back him. Fast forward their polling numbers are in the tank, public acknowledgment that the party and it’s candidates are shit and they are tired of the same old failed policies and tactics. ‘Lesser evil’ is unacceptable because it’s not lesser.
My revolution? No one is advocating for a glorious revolution. You’re learning about the limits of electoral politics in a capitalist system. Your solution to this is to give up? That’s your right if that’s what you want.
But I don’t think you’ll actually have a choice about dying in this way.
And I think if you’re going to just give up then telling others how to vote is pretty rude.
Denying reality over and over again doesn’t make you right and the perspective you are espousing was the dominant narrative up until the elective. That individually voters just needed to “do better”. You want to blame voters; you need them to win elections. Explain to me how you plan on getting back the 6% of Democratic voters you lost using your approach? You blamed them for failure before the contest was even run and they didn’t show up for you. Now what? How does your analysis change their minds into showing up?
What you are doing is the same thing petroleum companies did around recycling in the 90s. By believing this is some negotiation of individual choice, you are obscuring the fact that the Democrats structurally undermined their own ability to stop fascism. Blaming the individual is why fascism won.
I don’t need to win shit anymore. I don’t care, its obviously a fool’s errand to give a shit. The 2024 US election taught me that. All worrying about politics does is hurt me and waste my time with fools.
All that’s left is rot, so I’m going to pick through the garbage and hope to find some gems before we all drown in shit. My analysis is just based on brutal reality. They did not show up “for themselves” as well. Its not just me they’ve hurt. Leopards are eating faces, and not all the owners of those faces are “shitlibs” and MAGA, some of them are protestors who didn’t vote.
There is no means for me to change people’s minds on voting so you don’t need worry about me trying. I just want people to understand that the very virtue obsessed moral framework they are using to make their decision to not vote has hurt them. Its doomed them. I want them to feel bad about it because in so far that someone can deserve to feel bad about it, they definitely should.
No its not. In a purely rational sense, I don’t really blame anyone. Free will doesn’t actually exist.
But within the context of people I can like, dislike, or hate as the emotional creature that I am: I definitely can fucking loathe multiple groups at the same time and feel catharsis at their suffering.
I think you are still operating under the delusion that this second Trump term is something we will escape from, but the thing is, bad times don’t create good times. They create more bad times. We are in the gravity well of a metaphorical political and environmental black hole, and you are in denial.
The dems will win in 2028, and it wont matter much, other than we’ll get some sweet painkillers as we pass into oblivion. Because the GOP will win in 2032. Or society will completely collapse. Or the globe will roast all of our food and we’ll all starve. There are not much in the way of good things to look forward to.
Great. Then just keep it all to yourself then. All bottled up deep inside so you don’t hand the fascists another victory.
No lol, eat shit, scumbag.
Still insistent on the delusions I see.
You don’t deserve charity. You objectively supported fascism with your actions. And now youre saying you don’t care enough to stop it.
I already tried to stop it. You continuously reframing this like I’m a DNC cheerleader is actually pathetic.
Your proposition that I continue means rewarding people like yourself, who actually is at least in part responsible for this.
That said, now I’m curious. What exactly would you expect someone like myself to do now to stop the fascism you enabled? Do I owe you?
You need to do the work to undo the Fascism you enabled. Simple as. Make it clear in this next election cycle that no oro ice, pro genocide candidates get your vote. And it’s not because you individually won’t vote for them. You need to make it clear that if the candidate doesn’t move to your more moral policy positions, they don’t get to have your vote.
Your individual vote doesn’t matter. Neither does mine. What matters is the 6% left on the table by Harris being pro genocide. We’ve got to to get them back which means you have to do the work of cleaning out the cynicism you injected into the system by insisting people vote or genocide.
You have work to do.
I can see both sides of this. Yes, the moral and proper thing to do is to be anti-genocide and to take an anti-Israal, anti-Zionist position after the Gaza invasion. We were right to insist upon it as a condition for our vote and whoever the Dem nominee was should have taken a hard anti-Gaza war stance. However, the reality of the situation is that the vile monsters that control the party didn’t listen to us and ignored or talked around this issue for those sweet, sweet AIPAC dollars. We all know that they didn’t listen to us for an entire year. This was the reality on election day.
Knowing this, if you still voted for Trump, a third party, or “not at all” on election day instead of holding your nose and voting for Harris, you are just as responsible for the fascism we have now as any shitlib who was screaming at anyone and everyone to “fuck off, and fall in line” or “vote blue no matter who” before and during the election.
You didn’t have to tell anyone you were going vote for Harris. In fact, we should have been telling the Dem party that we will refuse to vote for them right up until the end. Hell, you can still deny today that you ever voted for Harris in 2024, as long as you actually did in secret.