If the alternative to genocide is more genocide, then we are in a failed state for all relevant purposes. I cannot abide the concept of “harm reduction” being applied to voting for genocide (the supreme crime). If I am against harm reduction, then it follows that you are for genocide. Do you see how that works?
The election is nearly 6 months away, so we both have time to think and do a lot of stuff. The world changes around us everyday. Maybe Trump will have a heart attack and die. Maybe Biden will kill himself out of guilt. Who knows? Maybe I’ll keep reading headlines about Biden reaffirming his commitment to genocide, and posts from pugjesus about how dumb (or Russian) I must be for not recognizing how cool Joe actually i.
I hope that answers your question, and I have one for you: Imagine you convince someone like me to vote for Joe, and together we all post pro-Joe content, and we all vote real hard for him in November, and he still doesn’t quite pull it off. Even best case it’s basically a coin toss. What are you planning to do then? I mean, it will be the end of democracy, the new era of fascism and terror. Do you have plans (and means) to leave the country with your loved ones? Do you plan to stay and fight to protect your friends and neighbors? Will you just kind of muddle on going to work and voting? I don’t need your answer as much as I need you to think seriously about it, but I am curious. What preparations are you making for the worst case scenario?
Maybe I’ll keep reading headlines about Biden reaffirming his commitment to genocide, and posts from pugjesus about how dumb (or Russian) I must be for not recognizing how cool Joe actually i.
Sorry that being confronted with the consequences of your decisions is so distressing to you. It would be so nice if you could show Mean Ol’ Joe how very, very cross you are with him without having to think about the millions who will suffer under a Trump regime, or the additional aid to Israeli genocide that would result in.
It’s much nicer when you can plug your ears and not listen to the screams of the genocides you’re enabling, isn’t it?
I think that’s what will happen to me because the opposition is openly fascist, and people like you are doing their damndest to see a fascist regime elected here because you hate the grotesque foreign policy that has been established over the past 50 years.
Like, it’s not something that is unreasonable to see as fucking grotesque; it’s only unreasonable to demand that fascism be implemented here - not in the name of stopping the support of genocidaires in our foreign policy, but in the name of intensifying it. Just straight up saying “Yes, I want the greater evil, in all possible areas”.
For some reason, this endorsement of the mass murder of Palestinians AND American minorities makes an alarming number of self-proclaimed leftists feel good about themselves.
Where have I endorsed the mass murder of American minorities? If I have done that by denying Biden my vote, then you are endorsing the genocide of Palestinians by assuring Biden of yours. Is that fair to say?
No, it’s really not. Either voting is seen as an endorsement, and any vote endorses genocide while not voting doesn’t; or a vote is a choice, and not voting or voting for Trump (or 3rd party) endorses genocide, while voting for Biden doesn’t. They can’t both be correct, you can’t do a tit-for-tat, either you’re supporting genocide or Pug is.
In an ideal world, we would vote for candidates that excite us, that share our views, or who we feel will simply do a good job. In an ideal world, you are afforded the luxury of voting like this. If you see voting as an endorsement then you’re more likely to vote like this, and you’re more likely to assign a moral reaponsibility to voting, such that you’re responsible for the actions of the person that you vote for.
But you’re also responsible for preventing the actions of the person that you didn’t vote for. In the real world, in the US with FPTP, voting is a choice. You can vote for one, or the other, or say you don’t care (not voting), or use your vote to try to take a moral stand (voting 3rd party). But barring a statistical miracle, there are only two options. The actions of the president WILL affect people. Palestinians will be killed. Queer people will be harrassed or protected. Workers will be beaten or supported. Students will be penniless or financially free. The environment will be abused or respected. Ukraine will be slaughtered or strengthened. The US could die or live.
When you choose not to vote, you think that you relieve yourself of the responsibility of killing Palestinian citizens. But how can you possibly say this if by not voting you have made their conditions materially worse? And along with that, caused the same for our own citizens and our planet? When you don’t vote, you aren’t escaping the system. You haven’t avoided making a choice. You’ve simply said that you don’t care what is chosen. So yes, not voting means that you don’t care if things are bad or worse. You don’t care if only some people die, or if the state is wiped out entirely. You don’t care if there is food aid, or if Israel will be allowed to starve Gazans. You don’t care if they die, as long as you get to feel like you wouldn’t have caused it. Well, you would. We all have a choice-- one (mostly) equal vote-- and IT IS YOUR DUTY to make the right choice.
I’m struggling to parse your first paragraph, but I think I’ve got your gist. I do not think that withholding my vote is an endorsement for killing minorities. I do think that a vote for Biden is an endorsement of genocide. I was just trying to point out what a ridiculous accusation it was. I definitely don’t expect pug to cop to endorsing genocide tho.
Again with this “ideal world” imperfect candidate bullshit. This is genocide we are talking about, not free college, or reparations, or fucking anything else.
Third paragraph pretty much more of the second. I don’t care: stop the genocide first.
Fourth paragraph. This isn’t about assuaging my conscience. I am responsible whether I vote or not. I am responsible because I continue to pay taxes that support terror around the world. I am responsible because I don’t act more forcefully against the system that grinds up children. If you think I won’t vote for a genocidaire to feel superior, you are totally misunderstanding me. Maybe it’s your own conscience? All of what you say about Gaza is being done right now, by the guy you are exhorting me to vote for. The state is being wiped out, food aid isn’t getting in, and Biden is allowing Israel to starve them. Are you worried that Trump is going to bomb their corpses?
If the alternative to genocide is more genocide, then we are in a failed state for all relevant purposes. I cannot abide the concept of “harm reduction” being applied to voting for genocide (the supreme crime). If I am against harm reduction, then it follows that you are for genocide. Do you see how that works?
The election is nearly 6 months away, so we both have time to think and do a lot of stuff. The world changes around us everyday. Maybe Trump will have a heart attack and die. Maybe Biden will kill himself out of guilt. Who knows? Maybe I’ll keep reading headlines about Biden reaffirming his commitment to genocide, and posts from pugjesus about how dumb (or Russian) I must be for not recognizing how cool Joe actually i.
I hope that answers your question, and I have one for you: Imagine you convince someone like me to vote for Joe, and together we all post pro-Joe content, and we all vote real hard for him in November, and he still doesn’t quite pull it off. Even best case it’s basically a coin toss. What are you planning to do then? I mean, it will be the end of democracy, the new era of fascism and terror. Do you have plans (and means) to leave the country with your loved ones? Do you plan to stay and fight to protect your friends and neighbors? Will you just kind of muddle on going to work and voting? I don’t need your answer as much as I need you to think seriously about it, but I am curious. What preparations are you making for the worst case scenario?
Sorry that being confronted with the consequences of your decisions is so distressing to you. It would be so nice if you could show Mean Ol’ Joe how very, very cross you are with him without having to think about the millions who will suffer under a Trump regime, or the additional aid to Israeli genocide that would result in.
It’s much nicer when you can plug your ears and not listen to the screams of the genocides you’re enabling, isn’t it?
“It’s much nicer when you can plug your ears and not listen to the screams of the genocides you’re enabling, isn’t it?”
It’ll be so fun when I’m going to the death camps and you’re safe and sound in your suburban home, listening to the news reports on the radio. 😊
You think that’s what will happen to you because that’s what you’re supporting in Gaza right now.
I think that’s what will happen to me because the opposition is openly fascist, and people like you are doing their damndest to see a fascist regime elected here because you hate the grotesque foreign policy that has been established over the past 50 years.
Like, it’s not something that is unreasonable to see as fucking grotesque; it’s only unreasonable to demand that fascism be implemented here - not in the name of stopping the support of genocidaires in our foreign policy, but in the name of intensifying it. Just straight up saying “Yes, I want the greater evil, in all possible areas”.
For some reason, this endorsement of the mass murder of Palestinians AND American minorities makes an alarming number of self-proclaimed leftists feel good about themselves.
Where have I endorsed the mass murder of American minorities? If I have done that by denying Biden my vote, then you are endorsing the genocide of Palestinians by assuring Biden of yours. Is that fair to say?
No, it’s really not. Either voting is seen as an endorsement, and any vote endorses genocide while not voting doesn’t; or a vote is a choice, and not voting or voting for Trump (or 3rd party) endorses genocide, while voting for Biden doesn’t. They can’t both be correct, you can’t do a tit-for-tat, either you’re supporting genocide or Pug is.
In an ideal world, we would vote for candidates that excite us, that share our views, or who we feel will simply do a good job. In an ideal world, you are afforded the luxury of voting like this. If you see voting as an endorsement then you’re more likely to vote like this, and you’re more likely to assign a moral reaponsibility to voting, such that you’re responsible for the actions of the person that you vote for.
But you’re also responsible for preventing the actions of the person that you didn’t vote for. In the real world, in the US with FPTP, voting is a choice. You can vote for one, or the other, or say you don’t care (not voting), or use your vote to try to take a moral stand (voting 3rd party). But barring a statistical miracle, there are only two options. The actions of the president WILL affect people. Palestinians will be killed. Queer people will be harrassed or protected. Workers will be beaten or supported. Students will be penniless or financially free. The environment will be abused or respected. Ukraine will be slaughtered or strengthened. The US could die or live.
When you choose not to vote, you think that you relieve yourself of the responsibility of killing Palestinian citizens. But how can you possibly say this if by not voting you have made their conditions materially worse? And along with that, caused the same for our own citizens and our planet? When you don’t vote, you aren’t escaping the system. You haven’t avoided making a choice. You’ve simply said that you don’t care what is chosen. So yes, not voting means that you don’t care if things are bad or worse. You don’t care if only some people die, or if the state is wiped out entirely. You don’t care if there is food aid, or if Israel will be allowed to starve Gazans. You don’t care if they die, as long as you get to feel like you wouldn’t have caused it. Well, you would. We all have a choice-- one (mostly) equal vote-- and IT IS YOUR DUTY to make the right choice.
I’m struggling to parse your first paragraph, but I think I’ve got your gist. I do not think that withholding my vote is an endorsement for killing minorities. I do think that a vote for Biden is an endorsement of genocide. I was just trying to point out what a ridiculous accusation it was. I definitely don’t expect pug to cop to endorsing genocide tho.
Again with this “ideal world” imperfect candidate bullshit. This is genocide we are talking about, not free college, or reparations, or fucking anything else.
Third paragraph pretty much more of the second. I don’t care: stop the genocide first.
Fourth paragraph. This isn’t about assuaging my conscience. I am responsible whether I vote or not. I am responsible because I continue to pay taxes that support terror around the world. I am responsible because I don’t act more forcefully against the system that grinds up children. If you think I won’t vote for a genocidaire to feel superior, you are totally misunderstanding me. Maybe it’s your own conscience? All of what you say about Gaza is being done right now, by the guy you are exhorting me to vote for. The state is being wiped out, food aid isn’t getting in, and Biden is allowing Israel to starve them. Are you worried that Trump is going to bomb their corpses?
Have…you not been explained how FPTP works or are you deliberately ignoring everyone ?
I understand how it works, yes. What would you like to know about it?