Sorry if the following makes little sense, but your comment is interesting and I am quite buzzed on my evening off.
In terms of outcomes, I don’t see the difference between someone not voting and voting third party for president in a first past the post system. If you throw away your vote, it’s the same as staying home.
I think the best way to move a party in a direction is to have the right people join the 2-party system and change it from within.
That’s done by winning primaries. AOC primaried the Chair of the fucking House Democratic Caucus and has been campaigning left very publicly since. Asa Democrat, not a more Left and irrelevant party.
But they also have to be able to win general elections, as we saw many of the craziest Trumpers in 2022 win their primaries, being ideologically what their base wanted, and get their lunch eaten in the general election.
Drunk TLDR: Work the two party system, don’t scare the normies and sink the boat, slow boil the country into a brighter future
Here’s the thing though. You’re not just voting for the president this year. Telling leftists to get in line to support a candidate complicit in genocide is similarly likely to put Trump in the office. If you don’t want to see Trump elected, encourage voting generally. That includes supporting people that want to see Cornel in the office. Because the brass tacks is that most people lean to the left in this country. Telling them that a vote for “their guy” is pointless, keeps them home. It’s a factor as to why he was elected in the first place.
Supreme court is already captured.
Congress is nearly captured.
If Trump wins, there’s a good chance there won’t be another chance at resolving things even remotely democratically.
I’ve voted 3rd party in the past when I lived there. But this election really is gonna be one where they can’t be affordable to do.
This is a “lose the battle to fight the war” situation, because end of the day, ANY choice you make will still result in Palestinians being genocided.
Voting for Trump, Biden, 3rd Party, or None.
Unless you yourself have some military training and think you have a shit at straight up assassinating Netanyahu as a random like rogue assassin, there’s nothing you or I can do about that other than protest and boycott. You can still protest the genocide and criticize Biden. You can do campaign for 3rd party support elsewhere. You can still do so when congressional elections come.
But you won’t have that option at all if Trump wins. The damn dude is literally calling himself a dictator.
Jan 6th happened.
You have to lack complete critical thinking skills to think, at this point, giving the guy who’s in the same ideological bed as Putin and Netanyahu a good chance at the presidency, is a good idea.
giving the guy who’s in the same ideological bed as Putin and Netanyahu a good chance at the presidency, is a good idea.
My brother in christ, he already has a chance at winning because this country clearly has no mechanism to bar insurrectionists from running, despite a constitutional amendment. I’d also appreciate it if you stopped assuming I haven’t been thinking critically about how I’m going to vote. I’m not going to sit on my ass if he wins, I’m going to fight like hell. I hope you do too. Because it’s already a possibility.
Do you know which state has the longest running streak of progressive voting presidential elections, as well as some of the highest voter turn out in the country? It’s Minnesota. This beautiful state has been voting to the left since 1974 for Walter Mondale, and consistently has voter turnout of at least 70%. In 2022 the state legislature won a trifecta state government and passed swathes of progressive liberal bills. Do you know our secret? We don’t vote shame, we just encourage everyone to vote their truth.
You think the dictator in chief Trump will let you vote???
Yes, you do lack critical thinking.
If by “fight like hell” you mean armed resistance, go ahead. That’ll be the only option left for change at that point. He’s not going to give up power the second time. He barely did the first.
Glad I left the USA. Dumbasses like you that have zero tact proved and continue proving there’s no hope over there.
lmao, so you’re just assuming things about me and trying to pin me as “lesser” because I disagree with you. I’m glad you left too, that’s one less toxic “vbnw” person in this country. I will never support a genocide. That is my line. If you can’t respect that, then go fuck yourself.
Not assuming anything. You’ve already shown what you lack.
You’re still supporting genocide no matter what voting choice you take, including not voting at all.
Unless you stop paying your taxes at least. I don’t pay US taxes, therefore I’m actually, literally, not supporting a genocide. Leaving the country and renouncing your citizenship is a way to not support the immoral things the USA does too.
Now all that’s left for you to decide is if you’ll be allowing a greater evil to make things worse, including future genocide - and you have chosen to do so.
I’m no formal teacher, but I’ll still take a crack at it.
Let’s say you’re (by force) part a large military group of 1,000 soldiers and a general. This general has ordered y’all to commit some heinous things.
Soon, however, a new general has a chance at leading the group. He’s one who has done so in the past. He promised he’ll do things that to you, are much worse. He even has an accomplished record.
Both generals either way have agreed to help a foreign army to annihilate a village currently being razed; but the current general at least might not destroy more future villages, while the new one who wants to take power promises he will, and he’ll go further. In the army you’re currently in, 450 support the new general, 400 support the current general, 20 don’t care , 30 don’t support either but only pick the current one because they think it’s better than the other, and 50, like you, don’t want either.
Now, obviously you dislike both generals. And there’s this third general who says he’s opposed to destroying villages. So you want to join his side.
Problem is, his army is only 10 people. Even if you got all 50 of those from your current army to support him, 60 of you can’t stop anything. Especially not the village
So now I’ll end this with a question: what’s the best option to stop future villages from being destroyed further?
Presidential votes are different because the Electoral College. A third of my state’s 2020 voters could abstain from voting Biden or vote 3rd party and Biden will still most likely win. So the calculus is way different than for say, congressional offices. Unless you’re one of the say 100,000 or so people living in a swing district in a swing state your vote for president is probably already decided due to the Electoral college.
It would take a catastrophically unpopular policy stance to threaten the electoral college vote in my state, and the same is true for most US states.
Sorry if the following makes little sense, but your comment is interesting and I am quite buzzed on my evening off.
In terms of outcomes, I don’t see the difference between someone not voting and voting third party for president in a first past the post system. If you throw away your vote, it’s the same as staying home.
I think the best way to move a party in a direction is to have the right people join the 2-party system and change it from within.
That’s done by winning primaries. AOC primaried the Chair of the fucking House Democratic Caucus and has been campaigning left very publicly since. Asa Democrat, not a more Left and irrelevant party.
But they also have to be able to win general elections, as we saw many of the craziest Trumpers in 2022 win their primaries, being ideologically what their base wanted, and get their lunch eaten in the general election.
Drunk TLDR: Work the two party system, don’t scare the normies and sink the boat, slow boil the country into a brighter future
Here’s the thing though. You’re not just voting for the president this year. Telling leftists to get in line to support a candidate complicit in genocide is similarly likely to put Trump in the office. If you don’t want to see Trump elected, encourage voting generally. That includes supporting people that want to see Cornel in the office. Because the brass tacks is that most people lean to the left in this country. Telling them that a vote for “their guy” is pointless, keeps them home. It’s a factor as to why he was elected in the first place.
Here’s the thing though.
Supreme court is already captured. Congress is nearly captured.
If Trump wins, there’s a good chance there won’t be another chance at resolving things even remotely democratically.
I’ve voted 3rd party in the past when I lived there. But this election really is gonna be one where they can’t be affordable to do.
This is a “lose the battle to fight the war” situation, because end of the day, ANY choice you make will still result in Palestinians being genocided.
Voting for Trump, Biden, 3rd Party, or None.
Unless you yourself have some military training and think you have a shit at straight up assassinating Netanyahu as a random like rogue assassin, there’s nothing you or I can do about that other than protest and boycott. You can still protest the genocide and criticize Biden. You can do campaign for 3rd party support elsewhere. You can still do so when congressional elections come.
But you won’t have that option at all if Trump wins. The damn dude is literally calling himself a dictator.
Jan 6th happened.
You have to lack complete critical thinking skills to think, at this point, giving the guy who’s in the same ideological bed as Putin and Netanyahu a good chance at the presidency, is a good idea.
My brother in christ, he already has a chance at winning because this country clearly has no mechanism to bar insurrectionists from running, despite a constitutional amendment. I’d also appreciate it if you stopped assuming I haven’t been thinking critically about how I’m going to vote. I’m not going to sit on my ass if he wins, I’m going to fight like hell. I hope you do too. Because it’s already a possibility.
Do you know which state has the longest running streak of progressive voting presidential elections, as well as some of the highest voter turn out in the country? It’s Minnesota. This beautiful state has been voting to the left since 1974 for Walter Mondale, and consistently has voter turnout of at least 70%. In 2022 the state legislature won a trifecta state government and passed swathes of progressive liberal bills. Do you know our secret? We don’t vote shame, we just encourage everyone to vote their truth.
You think the dictator in chief Trump will let you vote???
Yes, you do lack critical thinking.
If by “fight like hell” you mean armed resistance, go ahead. That’ll be the only option left for change at that point. He’s not going to give up power the second time. He barely did the first.
Glad I left the USA. Dumbasses like you that have zero tact proved and continue proving there’s no hope over there.
I’d like to know what specifically leads you to believe I’m not critically thinking.
I’ve already mentioned how in the first post of mine replying to you.
Unfortunately I do not have a Master’s in Teaching so I could clarify any better at this point.
lmao, so you’re just assuming things about me and trying to pin me as “lesser” because I disagree with you. I’m glad you left too, that’s one less toxic “vbnw” person in this country. I will never support a genocide. That is my line. If you can’t respect that, then go fuck yourself.
Not assuming anything. You’ve already shown what you lack.
You’re still supporting genocide no matter what voting choice you take, including not voting at all.
Unless you stop paying your taxes at least. I don’t pay US taxes, therefore I’m actually, literally, not supporting a genocide. Leaving the country and renouncing your citizenship is a way to not support the immoral things the USA does too.
Now all that’s left for you to decide is if you’ll be allowing a greater evil to make things worse, including future genocide - and you have chosen to do so.
I’m no formal teacher, but I’ll still take a crack at it.
Let’s say you’re (by force) part a large military group of 1,000 soldiers and a general. This general has ordered y’all to commit some heinous things.
Soon, however, a new general has a chance at leading the group. He’s one who has done so in the past. He promised he’ll do things that to you, are much worse. He even has an accomplished record.
Both generals either way have agreed to help a foreign army to annihilate a village currently being razed; but the current general at least might not destroy more future villages, while the new one who wants to take power promises he will, and he’ll go further. In the army you’re currently in, 450 support the new general, 400 support the current general, 20 don’t care , 30 don’t support either but only pick the current one because they think it’s better than the other, and 50, like you, don’t want either.
Now, obviously you dislike both generals. And there’s this third general who says he’s opposed to destroying villages. So you want to join his side.
Problem is, his army is only 10 people. Even if you got all 50 of those from your current army to support him, 60 of you can’t stop anything. Especially not the village
So now I’ll end this with a question: what’s the best option to stop future villages from being destroyed further?
Presidential votes are different because the Electoral College. A third of my state’s 2020 voters could abstain from voting Biden or vote 3rd party and Biden will still most likely win. So the calculus is way different than for say, congressional offices. Unless you’re one of the say 100,000 or so people living in a swing district in a swing state your vote for president is probably already decided due to the Electoral college.
It would take a catastrophically unpopular policy stance to threaten the electoral college vote in my state, and the same is true for most US states.