This isn’t very different from the downsizing of the 90’s, every time we go through this song and dance they find new ways to screw us, because often we’ve legally fought for the previous ways to be denied. They’ll do anything to pay the least. They don’t actually care about remote or in-office at all based on this comment over at hackernews:
They’ve also begun heavily pivoting hiring for dev roles to India now as well. I have cousins who attended no name universities in India getting SWE roles in Amazon - something that was unimaginable 5 years ago - and expanding Dev offices to lower CoL cities like Hyderabad while slowly pivoting away from Bangalore.
Addendum:
Also, the Indian branches (edit: of companies that aren’t Amazon) are fairly remote work friendly. Now you have people earning $20-40k/yr living in their ancestral towns and villages where median incomes might be $3-5k
This is why I warned HN that remote first will make tech more competitive.
They’re happy to replace US workers with cheaper workers from other countries, they don’t care that they work remote.
Anyway, I don’t disagree, it makes me want to give up and I believe the system is broken, and it’s been broken since before I was born.
If these people could still own other people as slaves: They would.
I’m of the position that if we allow companies to be international, then they have to pay every employee worldwide at the same payscale just so they fucking stop doing shit like this! If a US worker is worth $100K for a position, don’t pay an Indian worker $20k-$40k for the same fucking work! They have the same value, they’re not worth different things because they’re in a different fucking geographic location!
Use the existing system to build parrellel systems that are not under corporate control and are robust enough to survive the corporate systems either collapsing or becoming too expensive or unreliable to use.
I don’t know what prepper stuff you’re on about, I’m talking about simple bullshit like owning a home and working.
If you want to be safe from the elements and eat food, you need to partake in the BS corpo society we have. You can’t just go out in the wilderness, build a shelter and live off the land. You’re forever owned by and beholden to society, good luck finding a way out of that.
I agree with what you are saying, running off and starting a farm or ranch in the wilderness is not a realistic option for most, and it certainly does not work en masse.
What I am saying is trying to make the area you do live in less reliant on large global corps starting from the ground up: support more locally grown foods, be kind to your neighbors and do mutual aide, repair and reuse what you can instead of buying new, use public transit whenever possible, etc.
Now, you are in Sweden so probably this is not very interesting or novel.
But I am in America, where I have found that actually getting anyone I have ever met to do the basic things I just outlined is nearly impossible.
And I could go on more about how from a technical computer type perspective we should all be using libre code software so as to stop supporting giant evil tech companies. Again though, I have never been able to convince any American I have ever met to do this. Its too inconvenient.
If a US worker is worth $100K for a position, don’t pay an Indian worker $20k-$40k for the same fucking work! They have the same value, they’re not worth different things because they’re in a different fucking geographic location!
So that just means they are going to pay US workers $20k-$40k and be ok if there are few US workers.
The companies will claim it’s the cost of living difference or they are unable to find an American worker.
If they’re doing work of an American. They need to be paid like an American.
Also h1b should be eliminated. H1b are abusive.
If they can’t find an American then they’re paying shit.
Denmark comes up often because McDonald’s workers make a decent wage. Denmark also does not have a minimum wage but wages bargain for as an industry. I wouldn’t mind that system in America.
I’m paid very well but I wouldn’t mind all IT workers must make at least X. It would end those stupid jobs ads where they want 10 years of experience, a masters degree, expertise in 10 specific technologies and want to pay 15 an hour.
So, I work at Amazon, and that comment is very misleading.
Amazon obviously pay less outside of the US, but one of the core reasons they hire in the US, Canada, and India is because there are far fewer protections for worker’s rights. It’s absolutely not about cost, because otherwise they would probably also increase roles across Europe. In the UK, you’d be very lucky to find a role compared to most smaller US locations, and many people believe it’s because it’s been far harder to lay people off. The same goes for locations across France, Spain, and Germany. Big tech in general is downsizing across Europe.
I also 100% call bullshit on the remote point. Everyone is back 3 days a week, worldwide. If anything, the rules in India regarding RTO are far harsher than anywhere else.
US software engineers get paid far better than us outside of the US, but if Amazon truly cared about cost, they would’ve moved lots of roles away years ago.
Exploitation has never changed.
This isn’t very different from the downsizing of the 90’s, every time we go through this song and dance they find new ways to screw us, because often we’ve legally fought for the previous ways to be denied. They’ll do anything to pay the least. They don’t actually care about remote or in-office at all based on this comment over at hackernews:
They’re happy to replace US workers with cheaper workers from other countries, they don’t care that they work remote.
Anyway, I don’t disagree, it makes me want to give up and I believe the system is broken, and it’s been broken since before I was born.
If these people could still own other people as slaves: They would.
I’m of the position that if we allow companies to be international, then they have to pay every employee worldwide at the same payscale just so they fucking stop doing shit like this! If a US worker is worth $100K for a position, don’t pay an Indian worker $20k-$40k for the same fucking work! They have the same value, they’re not worth different things because they’re in a different fucking geographic location!
Slavery isn’t needed anymore, and no one is really free anyway. You can’t opt out of the system.
Doesn’t mean these people still don’t want that. You can tell, they get perverse joy in being control of others lives. It’s literally pathological.
You can’t opt out so do not try.
Use the existing system to build parrellel systems that are not under corporate control and are robust enough to survive the corporate systems either collapsing or becoming too expensive or unreliable to use.
I don’t know what prepper stuff you’re on about, I’m talking about simple bullshit like owning a home and working.
If you want to be safe from the elements and eat food, you need to partake in the BS corpo society we have. You can’t just go out in the wilderness, build a shelter and live off the land. You’re forever owned by and beholden to society, good luck finding a way out of that.
I agree with what you are saying, running off and starting a farm or ranch in the wilderness is not a realistic option for most, and it certainly does not work en masse.
What I am saying is trying to make the area you do live in less reliant on large global corps starting from the ground up: support more locally grown foods, be kind to your neighbors and do mutual aide, repair and reuse what you can instead of buying new, use public transit whenever possible, etc.
Now, you are in Sweden so probably this is not very interesting or novel.
But I am in America, where I have found that actually getting anyone I have ever met to do the basic things I just outlined is nearly impossible.
And I could go on more about how from a technical computer type perspective we should all be using libre code software so as to stop supporting giant evil tech companies. Again though, I have never been able to convince any American I have ever met to do this. Its too inconvenient.
So that just means they are going to pay US workers $20k-$40k and be ok if there are few US workers.
Such is the plight of the nursing and education industries
The companies will claim it’s the cost of living difference or they are unable to find an American worker.
If they’re doing work of an American. They need to be paid like an American.
Also h1b should be eliminated. H1b are abusive.
If they can’t find an American then they’re paying shit.
Denmark comes up often because McDonald’s workers make a decent wage. Denmark also does not have a minimum wage but wages bargain for as an industry. I wouldn’t mind that system in America.
I’m paid very well but I wouldn’t mind all IT workers must make at least X. It would end those stupid jobs ads where they want 10 years of experience, a masters degree, expertise in 10 specific technologies and want to pay 15 an hour.
So, I work at Amazon, and that comment is very misleading.
Amazon obviously pay less outside of the US, but one of the core reasons they hire in the US, Canada, and India is because there are far fewer protections for worker’s rights. It’s absolutely not about cost, because otherwise they would probably also increase roles across Europe. In the UK, you’d be very lucky to find a role compared to most smaller US locations, and many people believe it’s because it’s been far harder to lay people off. The same goes for locations across France, Spain, and Germany. Big tech in general is downsizing across Europe.
I also 100% call bullshit on the remote point. Everyone is back 3 days a week, worldwide. If anything, the rules in India regarding RTO are far harsher than anywhere else.
US software engineers get paid far better than us outside of the US, but if Amazon truly cared about cost, they would’ve moved lots of roles away years ago.