Congratulations! You’re learning that gender is actually a spectrum!
What you quoted:
she has the SRY gene
What you said:
Some male babies are born with ambiguous genitalia
But the article did not say anything about her being born with ambiguous genitalia. Did you hallucinate while reading the article or just felt like lying to everyone?
You don’t even understand the basics of what you’re trying to argue about. Please, for everyone’s sake, educate yourself
So let me educate you: there are people born with the SRY gene but only female physical characteristics. There are people born without the SRY gene that have a penis. So what defines a male? Is it being born with a penis, is it having the SRY gene, or is it something more complicated than that?
What makes someone male or female is the type of gametes their body is organized around producing.
Okay, please educate me:
Person A has the SRY gene but their body does not have any male characteristics, and never did. They were born with a vagina and never had a penis. Are they male or female?
Person B does not have the SRY gene but was born with a penis. Are they male or female?
Person C was born with both a penis and a vagina, are they male and female?
You’re suffering from some common misconceptions, namely that genitalia is how sex is defined. It’s not! Sex is defined entirely by gametes, because no other definition makes sense across the animal kingdom. The response to all of your questions is, “What gametes do they produce or are organized around producing?”.
Chromosomes are how sex is determined in humans, but not how sex is defined. Sex is not defined by sex characteristics. Other species have different sex determination systems, such as the ambient temperature determining the sex of a fetus. Trying to define sex by chromosomes for those species just wouldn’t make sense!
To answer your questions for persons A & B, please consult these handy charts:
You will notice that each viable DSD has male or female listed, because their sex is not ambiguous. Person A would likely have CAIS and therefore be male
Person B would likely be have XX male syndrome and also be male
Person C doesn’t exist, as you’re imagining; you’re suffering from another common misconception. Humans aren’t born with fully functional reproductive organs of both sexes. Some species do have that! They have body plans where that is a normal part of development, and you will simultaneously find healthy males, females, and hermaphrodites co-existing (or males+hermaphrodites, or other combinations). Keep in mind that those species still have two sexes, they just have individuals that are male, female, or both sexes (sequentially or simultaneously)
Humans are what’s known as gonochoric, because we don’t have that. You can find humans born with Ovotesticular syndrome, but that still isn’t “produces mature gametes of both types”. It’s “maybe produces gametes of one type, and has a bit of non-functional tissue of the other gamete type, known as streak tissue”. Their bodies are still organized around producing one gamete type or the other.
There are two sexes, because there are exactly two types of gametes in anisogamous species. No more, no less. Note that you’ll often see mating types confused with sex, but those are not sexes. Those are isogamous species and interesting, but irrelevant to this conversation.
So having never had a genetic test it is impossible for me to know my sex? In fact, for the vast majority of people in the world we don’t know their sex at all!
In that case it seems excessively foolish to have laws and policies based around sex, because 99% of the population have not had the appropriate tests to determine their sex.
I take it you accept the biological reality. It’s actually the case that most people know their sex. Anyone that has had a child knows what their sex is.
It’s true that in a lot of cases, sex isn’t particularly important. That’s OK! But sometimes it matters, like in elite sports. Athletes have to go through many invasive testing procedures to compete, and including a simple, noninvasive sex test is not a burden.
So until someone has a child it is impossible to know their sex without genetic testing? Still seems absurd to have any rules or polices regarding sex. How can we separate children by sex if we don’t know their sex?
Congratulations! You’re learning that gender is actually a spectrum!
What you quoted:
What you said:
But the article did not say anything about her being born with ambiguous genitalia. Did you hallucinate while reading the article or just felt like lying to everyone?
So let me educate you: there are people born with the SRY gene but only female physical characteristics. There are people born without the SRY gene that have a penis. So what defines a male? Is it being born with a penis, is it having the SRY gene, or is it something more complicated than that?
You’ve confused gender and sex. Please educate yourself. I’ll help!
What makes someone male or female is the type of gametes their body is organized around producing.
Let’s start with that. Can you acknowledge your previous ignorance now that you have become slightly more educated?
Okay, please educate me:
Person A has the SRY gene but their body does not have any male characteristics, and never did. They were born with a vagina and never had a penis. Are they male or female?
Person B does not have the SRY gene but was born with a penis. Are they male or female?
Person C was born with both a penis and a vagina, are they male and female?
Glad to help!
You’re suffering from some common misconceptions, namely that genitalia is how sex is defined. It’s not! Sex is defined entirely by gametes, because no other definition makes sense across the animal kingdom. The response to all of your questions is, “What gametes do they produce or are organized around producing?”.
Chromosomes are how sex is determined in humans, but not how sex is defined. Sex is not defined by sex characteristics. Other species have different sex determination systems, such as the ambient temperature determining the sex of a fetus. Trying to define sex by chromosomes for those species just wouldn’t make sense!
To answer your questions for persons A & B, please consult these handy charts:
https://theparadoxinstitute.org/articles/sex-development-charts
You will notice that each viable DSD has male or female listed, because their sex is not ambiguous. Person A would likely have CAIS and therefore be male
Person B would likely be have XX male syndrome and also be male
Person C doesn’t exist, as you’re imagining; you’re suffering from another common misconception. Humans aren’t born with fully functional reproductive organs of both sexes. Some species do have that! They have body plans where that is a normal part of development, and you will simultaneously find healthy males, females, and hermaphrodites co-existing (or males+hermaphrodites, or other combinations). Keep in mind that those species still have two sexes, they just have individuals that are male, female, or both sexes (sequentially or simultaneously)
Humans are what’s known as gonochoric, because we don’t have that. You can find humans born with Ovotesticular syndrome, but that still isn’t “produces mature gametes of both types”. It’s “maybe produces gametes of one type, and has a bit of non-functional tissue of the other gamete type, known as streak tissue”. Their bodies are still organized around producing one gamete type or the other.
There are two sexes, because there are exactly two types of gametes in anisogamous species. No more, no less. Note that you’ll often see mating types confused with sex, but those are not sexes. Those are isogamous species and interesting, but irrelevant to this conversation.
I hope that helped!
So having never had a genetic test it is impossible for me to know my sex? In fact, for the vast majority of people in the world we don’t know their sex at all!
In that case it seems excessively foolish to have laws and policies based around sex, because 99% of the population have not had the appropriate tests to determine their sex.
I take it you accept the biological reality. It’s actually the case that most people know their sex. Anyone that has had a child knows what their sex is.
It’s true that in a lot of cases, sex isn’t particularly important. That’s OK! But sometimes it matters, like in elite sports. Athletes have to go through many invasive testing procedures to compete, and including a simple, noninvasive sex test is not a burden.
Clearly not, as you are claiming Khelif’s mother did not know the sex of her own child. So how could anybody know without a gentic test?
Other way around. Khelif’s mother knows what her own sex is. She gave birth to Khelif. Only one sex is capable of that in humans
So until someone has a child it is impossible to know their sex without genetic testing? Still seems absurd to have any rules or polices regarding sex. How can we separate children by sex if we don’t know their sex?