US Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth condemned for sinking Iranian ship in international waters. Indian politicians criticize US attack as cowardly and despicable.
Sub killing capabilities as of right now. I highly doubt it.
But it would not be unreasonable to think they might have sent a mig to investigate. Submarines have very limited radar capabilities. It could be dangerous for them to surface for a prolonged time to conduct rescue.
How plausible is that? Probably not very, a Kuwaiti f18 shooting down 3 friendly f15 is also pretty low on the plausibility scale. But it still happened.
I agree, the criteria of what is and isn’t good faith decisions with the information currently at hand is difficult to prove or disprove.
What is the story on those planes. Are they really saying one f18 shot down 3 f15s before noticing they were US jets? Would have to be long range missles I assume, but can they carry that many?
As far as I’m aware. They were all shot down by an F18. I don’t know if they’ve confirmed exactly which missile was used, but last i heard, it was believed to have been IR seeking missiles. Which are short range missiles compared to radar missiles which can probably go at least 10x as far.
Most modern jets are capable of carrying at least 6 missiles, as in, they have at least 6 hardpoints to attach weapons on. So the F18 carrying 3 is not a problem, I assume he had lot more than that.
But how they made that mistake I don’t understand. Jets have so many tools available to them to identify what it is they’re locking. Some speculate it wasn’t a mistake. That it was a pilot sympathetic to Iran. But that is just speculation.
So when you say short range… are we talking dogfight range?
Just seems like one jet taking out 3 should be harder. But if the speculation were to be true, I guees they could have willingly let him get behind them and stayed in formation or something. Do those jets even have the programming to fire at three targets simultaneously? I assumed nowadays dodging air to air missles wasn’t too hard if you knew it was coming. The high speeds on both the plane and missle should make it easier to avoid them meeting if that’s your goal.
well, there’s new footage from the ground, showing both the f18 and the third and final f15 in the same frame. So yes, that would be within what you called “dogfight range”
Just seems like one jet taking out 3 should be harder.
From what I’ve read and heard, the f15 were all cruising home at 300 knots. That is mach .45, so they are going quite slow, and they are not expecting any danger since they are now inside kuwaiti airspace.
I assumed nowadays dodging air to air missles wasn’t too hard if you knew it was coming.
I’d say it’s the opposite. It’s more difficult than ever to “dodge” a missile. Not that it can’t be done if the circumstances are in your favour.
In this case, the f15 is going subsonic. A missile coming from behind at probably mach 2-3. There’s nothing in the world a pilot can do about that.
Do those jets even have the programming to fire at three targets simultaneously?
No. You would have to “lock” the missile on your target, fire. Lock the next missile on your new target, fire, lock again for a third time, then fire.
But in the case of the third airplane shot down. The F18 was well within visual range. He should have been able to visually identify that those were F15 SE
For the dodging, the faster something goes, usually the easier it is to dodge because it can’t change direction as fast. Like a bullfighter stepping aside to let the bull run through the red cape. But I guess the target can’t change it’s position very fast, and would have a hard time timing the move against something coming that fast.
And for the third jet. How long do you think it would be between the first missle launch and the third? Like how much time did he theoretically have to react. I assume alarms would have gone off in the cockpit of all three when the first missle launched.
Hey, lots of text ahead, but it seemed like you wanted some information of the situation so I did my best.
For the dodging, it’s the opposite, the faster something goes, the harder it is to dodge it in the air. You can only move so fast, and you can only change direction so fast. Especially if you’re only doing 300 knots
The missile is faster than you, and it’s more maneuverable than you. Best case you can bleed it out of energy. But that’s not gonna happen in this situation.
The f18 shot them from within visual range. Don’t quote me on it. But from what I heard, he used IR seeking missiles. I don’t believe the planes can give you an alarm for them. They’re not blasting you with a detectable radar wave. It’s looking at your IR signature with a camera. In this case, from a rear aspect. And modern missiles will narrow their focus a lot to avoid locking onto flares. You’d have to pre-flare a lot, and/or bloom your flares out while making a maneuver to have even the slightest chance of avoiding it coming from the rear.
Regardless, even if they would get an alarm. I highly doubt there’s anything they could do. It’s very short range, they’re going slow. The missile is very fast. It’s like you decided to go to the bathroom. And mid shit someone kicks the door open and starts to punch you. You don’t exactly have a lot of options.
I do not have a time frame of the entire event. I’m not sure that kind of information have been made available. Though I have not been active in researching this daily. There are some very qualified people on YouTube that have been breaking down the few videos we have available. I’ve seen a few as they pop up. It’s a very strange situation.
Shooting down 1 friendly is bad, really really, really bad… it can happen. But it’s bad. Shooting down 2 is unthinkable, and 3, we’re into the territory of seriously considering it must have been deliberate.
Maybe at some point in the future we will get a full rapport of what and how it happened.
But the F18, if it had its radar on, should have seen that those were friendly contacts. Planes “squawk” a signal. And we use that to determine if it’s a friendly plane or not. Planes also have what’s called a RWR system. Radar Warning Reciever. It detects when you are hit by radar waves, and can thus give you an alarm that someone can see you. And this is also what will detect if you are locked on to by another plane.
But it can’t detect if something is visually locking on to you. Such as an IR seeking missile.
People familiar with the F18 and the training those pilots recieve, are very suspicious because they know what the training entails. You have to KNOW what it is you’re shooting at. If you’re not entirely 100% sure, they say the procedure is to fly within visual range and visually identify the target. At that point. It should be obvious for the pilot that it’s not a drone, it’s an aircraft. And it should be obvious that it’s first of all, not a mig29. And should also be obvious that Iran isn’t going to fly migs inside of Kuwait, while cruising at 300 knots.
Sub killing capabilities as of right now. I highly doubt it.
But it would not be unreasonable to think they might have sent a mig to investigate. Submarines have very limited radar capabilities. It could be dangerous for them to surface for a prolonged time to conduct rescue.
How plausible is that? Probably not very, a Kuwaiti f18 shooting down 3 friendly f15 is also pretty low on the plausibility scale. But it still happened.
I agree, the criteria of what is and isn’t good faith decisions with the information currently at hand is difficult to prove or disprove.
What is the story on those planes. Are they really saying one f18 shot down 3 f15s before noticing they were US jets? Would have to be long range missles I assume, but can they carry that many?
As far as I’m aware. They were all shot down by an F18. I don’t know if they’ve confirmed exactly which missile was used, but last i heard, it was believed to have been IR seeking missiles. Which are short range missiles compared to radar missiles which can probably go at least 10x as far.
Most modern jets are capable of carrying at least 6 missiles, as in, they have at least 6 hardpoints to attach weapons on. So the F18 carrying 3 is not a problem, I assume he had lot more than that.
But how they made that mistake I don’t understand. Jets have so many tools available to them to identify what it is they’re locking. Some speculate it wasn’t a mistake. That it was a pilot sympathetic to Iran. But that is just speculation.
So when you say short range… are we talking dogfight range?
Just seems like one jet taking out 3 should be harder. But if the speculation were to be true, I guees they could have willingly let him get behind them and stayed in formation or something. Do those jets even have the programming to fire at three targets simultaneously? I assumed nowadays dodging air to air missles wasn’t too hard if you knew it was coming. The high speeds on both the plane and missle should make it easier to avoid them meeting if that’s your goal.
well, there’s new footage from the ground, showing both the f18 and the third and final f15 in the same frame. So yes, that would be within what you called “dogfight range”
From what I’ve read and heard, the f15 were all cruising home at 300 knots. That is mach .45, so they are going quite slow, and they are not expecting any danger since they are now inside kuwaiti airspace.
I’d say it’s the opposite. It’s more difficult than ever to “dodge” a missile. Not that it can’t be done if the circumstances are in your favour.
In this case, the f15 is going subsonic. A missile coming from behind at probably mach 2-3. There’s nothing in the world a pilot can do about that.
No. You would have to “lock” the missile on your target, fire. Lock the next missile on your new target, fire, lock again for a third time, then fire.
But in the case of the third airplane shot down. The F18 was well within visual range. He should have been able to visually identify that those were F15 SE
For the dodging, the faster something goes, usually the easier it is to dodge because it can’t change direction as fast. Like a bullfighter stepping aside to let the bull run through the red cape. But I guess the target can’t change it’s position very fast, and would have a hard time timing the move against something coming that fast.
And for the third jet. How long do you think it would be between the first missle launch and the third? Like how much time did he theoretically have to react. I assume alarms would have gone off in the cockpit of all three when the first missle launched.
Hey, lots of text ahead, but it seemed like you wanted some information of the situation so I did my best.
For the dodging, it’s the opposite, the faster something goes, the harder it is to dodge it in the air. You can only move so fast, and you can only change direction so fast. Especially if you’re only doing 300 knots
The missile is faster than you, and it’s more maneuverable than you. Best case you can bleed it out of energy. But that’s not gonna happen in this situation.
The f18 shot them from within visual range. Don’t quote me on it. But from what I heard, he used IR seeking missiles. I don’t believe the planes can give you an alarm for them. They’re not blasting you with a detectable radar wave. It’s looking at your IR signature with a camera. In this case, from a rear aspect. And modern missiles will narrow their focus a lot to avoid locking onto flares. You’d have to pre-flare a lot, and/or bloom your flares out while making a maneuver to have even the slightest chance of avoiding it coming from the rear.
Regardless, even if they would get an alarm. I highly doubt there’s anything they could do. It’s very short range, they’re going slow. The missile is very fast. It’s like you decided to go to the bathroom. And mid shit someone kicks the door open and starts to punch you. You don’t exactly have a lot of options.
I do not have a time frame of the entire event. I’m not sure that kind of information have been made available. Though I have not been active in researching this daily. There are some very qualified people on YouTube that have been breaking down the few videos we have available. I’ve seen a few as they pop up. It’s a very strange situation.
Shooting down 1 friendly is bad, really really, really bad… it can happen. But it’s bad. Shooting down 2 is unthinkable, and 3, we’re into the territory of seriously considering it must have been deliberate.
Maybe at some point in the future we will get a full rapport of what and how it happened.
But the F18, if it had its radar on, should have seen that those were friendly contacts. Planes “squawk” a signal. And we use that to determine if it’s a friendly plane or not. Planes also have what’s called a RWR system. Radar Warning Reciever. It detects when you are hit by radar waves, and can thus give you an alarm that someone can see you. And this is also what will detect if you are locked on to by another plane.
But it can’t detect if something is visually locking on to you. Such as an IR seeking missile.
People familiar with the F18 and the training those pilots recieve, are very suspicious because they know what the training entails. You have to KNOW what it is you’re shooting at. If you’re not entirely 100% sure, they say the procedure is to fly within visual range and visually identify the target. At that point. It should be obvious for the pilot that it’s not a drone, it’s an aircraft. And it should be obvious that it’s first of all, not a mig29. And should also be obvious that Iran isn’t going to fly migs inside of Kuwait, while cruising at 300 knots.