Some part of this is the male influencers, and some part of this is kids being ignorant. But being a straight woman in that age group must really suck.
There is no better proof that one doesn’t choose their sexuality than the existence of cisgender heterosexual women. I mean, hell, transgender heterosexual women, good luck to them, holy fuck.
I dunno, by that way of thinking there are plenty of ways of dividing up humanity and saying “if all those people died, the world would be a better place” - I don’t know how constructive it is, though. There’s nothing about being a man that prevents us from being good people, though there may be some things that make it harder
I think I know what you mean. There is a lot of focus and attention being put on the shittier kind of masculinity these days – by some because they hate it, by others because they want to convince the world that it’s actually great and the key to unlocking a golden age.
Even though we don’t talk about better kinds of masculinity, I think that most people just know intuitively that they exist, though… unless they’ve just had horrible luck in life.
Don’t project your self hate onto everyone? If all men died all humans will die, along with many many domesticated species across the world. Does that sound like a “better place”?
I’m starting to think that being a straight woman just sucks at any point in time, because young men are not the smartest ones on the block. Today’s young women, though, realize that there’s an off ramp.
Almost nobody is the smartest, unfortunately. Good relationships have always been hard to find, and the more discerning you are, the harder it is.
I think we are seeing that more today because historically, marriage was the default and the fact that most of them were bad for one or both participants was known by everyone but never addressed. See the entire genre of “wife bad” boomer humor as Exhibit A.
Even 100 years ago there was social pressure on young men to learn how to behave properly. Being kicked out of the local church meant that you couldn’t hang with your friends and would probably have to leave town.
Today, you can spend 20 hours a day online, hearing exactly what you want to hear.
I’ve heard this content classified as “traditional” but what I’ve seen of the manosphere+friends is something else truly terrifying. It’s a mix of cult-like masochism and rhetoric you’d expect of a mass shooter or bomber; and it’s public and widely-viewed, liked… I grew up Catholic and in “traditional values”. This stuff goes beyond “woman is the home-maker” and “a family is a man and a woman”; to “women are sex slaves and property that men dominate”. It sounds like the ideology of some vile hentai, and perhaps that’s where it comes from.
Hell…, some of this rhetoric IS from mass-killers. The New Zealand mosque shooter was inspired by “Great Replacement Theory” at a time where that ideology was relegated to niche crevices of 4chan. Now extremist racist/incel beliefs are a core part of the platform of UK Reform, USA MAGA, German AfD, and general pronatalist ideology. And those parties are rising or seized power.
Yeah I’m not going to back up church attendance as a solution but I think the point is they’re missing a real community to hold them accountable and even instill them with positive values in the first place, leaving online male echo chambers of despair to fill that void.
I agree. Everybody agrees young men need to learn to be decent, but seemingly nobody wants to teach them “positive masculinity” without first beating them over the head about their inherant badness and the sins of their bloodline.
…Then these kids run to these disgusting “manosphere” cults that welcome them for being young men and offer the facade of fellowship and community, and everyone’s all surprise_pikachu.jpg that they start to internalize that poison.
Yep. I don’t really see any positive organizations/groups love-bombing young men.
Honestly, my generation also heard rather dire messages of a bleak future for us - literally, one of my first memories of punk was listening to “No Future” by the Sex Pistols. We were watching our parents grinding it out as economic hardship and new ideas about how to run corporations hit our parents. Ronnie Raygunism and Thatcherism seemed to result into young men falling into groups like the neo-Nazi skinheads in some areas, but that was at the margins and there were no “influencers” and there was no way for people like to “find the others” like this.
Back then, if someone bitched like these incels or these douchebros wanting a trad wife - they’d be told they are just too chickenshit and lazy to clean themselves up and learn to talk to women. They were not able to all find each other, en masse, have a few of them profit off of it, and then tell each other it is all the fault of the womenfolk. That’s not to say all of us were in a healthy place, but at least there was no multiplier effect like there is now.
I was one of the biggest fans and boosters of the 'net in the early days. These days, it seems to have so many negative effects, especially on the impressionable.
I think there is a real male loneliness epidemic and a crisis of identity among younger males, it seems.
Few people/institutions seem to be offering men an off-ramp from this confusion and stress…except for this toxic brosphere stuff, sadly. It really explains a lot about things like the Proud Boys.
Like you - I would not suggest a church as the solution. I really don’t know what the answer is for healthy outlets and support structures for men truly is, though. People yelling “men suck” at them is likely to only push them deeper into the worst behaviors.
Historically, this kind of discontent has never ended well.
The billionaire pedofile parasite class has spent a lot of money to radicalize and brainwash them. It’s not looking good now that we’re literally going to war with the globe. I believe the bigger intention was to feed them into the meat grinder for shareholder profits and the imperial ambitions of the Turd Reich
Some part of this is the male influencers, and some part of this is kids being ignorant. But being a straight woman in that age group must really suck.
There is no better proof that one doesn’t choose their sexuality than the existence of cisgender heterosexual women. I mean, hell, transgender heterosexual women, good luck to them, holy fuck.
If all us men died on Nov 24 thr world would be a better place.
That fact will never leave me. I honestly hate myself for existing.
I dunno, by that way of thinking there are plenty of ways of dividing up humanity and saying “if all those people died, the world would be a better place” - I don’t know how constructive it is, though. There’s nothing about being a man that prevents us from being good people, though there may be some things that make it harder
But we seem to always be defined by those bad people
I think I know what you mean. There is a lot of focus and attention being put on the shittier kind of masculinity these days – by some because they hate it, by others because they want to convince the world that it’s actually great and the key to unlocking a golden age.
Even though we don’t talk about better kinds of masculinity, I think that most people just know intuitively that they exist, though… unless they’ve just had horrible luck in life.
I don’t believe that anymore. At best it seems we can only be ‘one of the good ones’
Don’t project your self hate onto everyone? If all men died all humans will die, along with many many domesticated species across the world. Does that sound like a “better place”?
I meant to say all the men in the US.
All the men in the US dying would be insanely devastating for the world too. You really don’t mean that.
I don’t. But I can’t stop thinking about it.
I’m starting to think that being a straight woman just sucks at any point in time, because young men are not the smartest ones on the block. Today’s young women, though, realize that there’s an off ramp.
Almost nobody is the smartest, unfortunately. Good relationships have always been hard to find, and the more discerning you are, the harder it is.
I think we are seeing that more today because historically, marriage was the default and the fact that most of them were bad for one or both participants was known by everyone but never addressed. See the entire genre of “wife bad” boomer humor as Exhibit A.
Even 100 years ago there was social pressure on young men to learn how to behave properly. Being kicked out of the local church meant that you couldn’t hang with your friends and would probably have to leave town.
Today, you can spend 20 hours a day online, hearing exactly what you want to hear.
I’ve heard this content classified as “traditional” but what I’ve seen of the manosphere+friends is something else truly terrifying. It’s a mix of cult-like masochism and rhetoric you’d expect of a mass shooter or bomber; and it’s public and widely-viewed, liked… I grew up Catholic and in “traditional values”. This stuff goes beyond “woman is the home-maker” and “a family is a man and a woman”; to “women are sex slaves and property that men dominate”. It sounds like the ideology of some vile hentai, and perhaps that’s where it comes from.
Hell…, some of this rhetoric IS from mass-killers. The New Zealand mosque shooter was inspired by “Great Replacement Theory” at a time where that ideology was relegated to niche crevices of 4chan. Now extremist racist/incel beliefs are a core part of the platform of UK Reform, USA MAGA, German AfD, and general pronatalist ideology. And those parties are rising or seized power.
Someone was talking about online sports betting.
The pointed out that it’s aimed at young men who like sports anyway. Now they have a toxic and addictive app running 24/7.
Ah yes, the kids these days are missing out on the church-provided misogyny, that’s the issue.
Yeah I’m not going to back up church attendance as a solution but I think the point is they’re missing a real community to hold them accountable and even instill them with positive values in the first place, leaving online male echo chambers of despair to fill that void.
I agree. Everybody agrees young men need to learn to be decent, but seemingly nobody wants to teach them “positive masculinity” without first beating them over the head about their inherant badness and the sins of their bloodline.
…Then these kids run to these disgusting “manosphere” cults that welcome them for being young men and offer the facade of fellowship and community, and everyone’s all surprise_pikachu.jpg that they start to internalize that poison.
Yep. I don’t really see any positive organizations/groups love-bombing young men.
Honestly, my generation also heard rather dire messages of a bleak future for us - literally, one of my first memories of punk was listening to “No Future” by the Sex Pistols. We were watching our parents grinding it out as economic hardship and new ideas about how to run corporations hit our parents. Ronnie Raygunism and Thatcherism seemed to result into young men falling into groups like the neo-Nazi skinheads in some areas, but that was at the margins and there were no “influencers” and there was no way for people like to “find the others” like this.
Back then, if someone bitched like these incels or these douchebros wanting a trad wife - they’d be told they are just too chickenshit and lazy to clean themselves up and learn to talk to women. They were not able to all find each other, en masse, have a few of them profit off of it, and then tell each other it is all the fault of the womenfolk. That’s not to say all of us were in a healthy place, but at least there was no multiplier effect like there is now.
I was one of the biggest fans and boosters of the 'net in the early days. These days, it seems to have so many negative effects, especially on the impressionable.
I think there is a real male loneliness epidemic and a crisis of identity among younger males, it seems.
Few people/institutions seem to be offering men an off-ramp from this confusion and stress…except for this toxic brosphere stuff, sadly. It really explains a lot about things like the Proud Boys.
Like you - I would not suggest a church as the solution. I really don’t know what the answer is for healthy outlets and support structures for men truly is, though. People yelling “men suck” at them is likely to only push them deeper into the worst behaviors.
Historically, this kind of discontent has never ended well.
I’m an old man and still dumb as fuck. But at least I believe in equality. Dunno what’s wrong with the young dudes, they need to get a grip.
The billionaire pedofile parasite class has spent a lot of money to radicalize and brainwash them. It’s not looking good now that we’re literally going to war with the globe. I believe the bigger intention was to feed them into the meat grinder for shareholder profits and the imperial ambitions of the Turd Reich
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