they should be disallowed from participating in a close, intimate relationship
The legal mechanisms required to enforce that would be some form of government permission and approval structure, such as licensing.
No amount of rhetorical flourish can get away from what they are essentially presenting, which is requiring government permission for interpersonal relationships.
How would the government track an individuals approval for personal private relationships?
How would the government enforce penalties on private citizens who engaged in an unauthorized private relationships?
And then we get to some fun questions, like what happens if the government privatizes the relationship approval system that OP is proposing?
The legal mechanisms required to enforce that would be some form of government permission and approval structure, such as licensing.
False.
For example, if one is a sex offender/domestic violence perpetrator in the US, they can be disallowed to have a relationship as part of their probation. Therapy can also be a requirement for probation.
How would the government track an individuals approval for personal private relationships?
How would the government enforce penalties on private citizens who engaged in an unauthorized private relationships?
There are probation officers who handle these cases and violating the terms of probation usually results in a loss of freedom/punishment of the person serving probation.
The state has different obligations to protect children than they do adults. Which is why we have things like drinking age laws and legal concepts such as in loco parentis.
You are completely removing the agency of adults to make their own choices, and instead, inserting the government into those relationships, under the penalty of incarceration and government sanctioned violence, for the crime of having an unauthorized interpersonal consensual relationship between two adults.
And that’s only taking your proposal at face value and ignoring the plethora of unintended consequences, such as perverse political incentives and privatization.
You are completely removing the agency of adults to make their own choices
Violent, reoffending adults who specifically engage in domestic violence - and I clarified that it should be as part of their incarceration/probation. Such restrictions already exist in certain cases as terms for probation and it doesn’t always revolve around protecting children.
Probation officers handle this just fine, there is no need for licenses affecting all adults. You twisted what I said, just admit it.
Every one of your replies simply adds rhetorical flair to my assertion that you are proposing the government should have regulatory power over the rights of adults to engage in private consensual relationships, which would be handled by the criminal legal system.
Unless you’re proposing that these people on your offender lists are only allowed to date other offenders.
You are saying that person B is not allowed to date person A, even if both adults consent to enter a relationship, because one of those parties can be sent to jail for the crime of entering into a private consensual adult relationship.
Ergo, you have removed the ability of both parties to have a mutually consensual relationship of their choosing.
You haven’t even left the confines of Lemmy, and you’re already running headfirst into unintended consequences.
Just because I’m pointing out just some of the deeply unjust and inherent flaws in your proposal, doesn’t mean it’s spin.
You realize that you’re not making these arguments on a libertarian forum, right?
The vast majority of us here are left wing and not inherently opposed to the concept of government or regulation, yet the vast majority of us here seem very much opposed to your ideas.
Just because I’m pointing out just some of the deeply unjust and inherent flaws in your proposal, doesn’t mean it’s spin.
You are saying I’m suggesting it affect “all adults”. That’s false, I gave a very specific example and circumstance for which this could be applied. Probation officers manage almost all aspects of those they are monitoring that are on probation and all adults don’t need to abide by that system.
You realize that you’re not making these arguments on a libertarian forum, right?
Are you seriously suggesting I am a right-wing libertarian for suggesting that there be terms for probation after somebody domestically abuses somebody, especially repeat offenders? Have you ever known somebody on probation or a violent offender and have experience with the systems they go through to reenter society?
The restrictions can be quite harsh and I don’t agree with all of them, but therapy and preventing abuse is desirable after somebody is released from incarceration (and during) for domestic violence.
The vast majority of us here are left wing and not inherently opposed to the concept of government or regulation, yet the vast majority of us here seem very much opposed to your ideas.
They saw your spin and took you at face-value. I’m not hurt.
The legal mechanisms required to enforce that would be some form of government permission and approval structure, such as licensing.
No amount of rhetorical flourish can get away from what they are essentially presenting, which is requiring government permission for interpersonal relationships.
How would the government track an individuals approval for personal private relationships?
How would the government enforce penalties on private citizens who engaged in an unauthorized private relationships?
And then we get to some fun questions, like what happens if the government privatizes the relationship approval system that OP is proposing?
Why couldn’t you just respond like that to me?
False.
For example, if one is a sex offender/domestic violence perpetrator in the US, they can be disallowed to have a relationship as part of their probation. Therapy can also be a requirement for probation.
There are probation officers who handle these cases and violating the terms of probation usually results in a loss of freedom/punishment of the person serving probation.
The state has different obligations to protect children than they do adults. Which is why we have things like drinking age laws and legal concepts such as in loco parentis.
You are completely removing the agency of adults to make their own choices, and instead, inserting the government into those relationships, under the penalty of incarceration and government sanctioned violence, for the crime of having an unauthorized interpersonal consensual relationship between two adults.
And that’s only taking your proposal at face value and ignoring the plethora of unintended consequences, such as perverse political incentives and privatization.
Violent, reoffending adults who specifically engage in domestic violence - and I clarified that it should be as part of their incarceration/probation. Such restrictions already exist in certain cases as terms for probation and it doesn’t always revolve around protecting children.
Probation officers handle this just fine, there is no need for licenses affecting all adults. You twisted what I said, just admit it.
Every one of your replies simply adds rhetorical flair to my assertion that you are proposing the government should have regulatory power over the rights of adults to engage in private consensual relationships, which would be handled by the criminal legal system.
Yes, all adults.
Unless you’re proposing that these people on your offender lists are only allowed to date other offenders.
You are saying that person B is not allowed to date person A, even if both adults consent to enter a relationship, because one of those parties can be sent to jail for the crime of entering into a private consensual adult relationship.
Ergo, you have removed the ability of both parties to have a mutually consensual relationship of their choosing.
You haven’t even left the confines of Lemmy, and you’re already running headfirst into unintended consequences.
You replied to yourself and meant to reply to this comment:
Probation is an established system. You suggested licensing I’m not engaging with you anymore because that’s not my argument. It’s your spin.
Just because I’m pointing out just some of the deeply unjust and inherent flaws in your proposal, doesn’t mean it’s spin.
You realize that you’re not making these arguments on a libertarian forum, right?
The vast majority of us here are left wing and not inherently opposed to the concept of government or regulation, yet the vast majority of us here seem very much opposed to your ideas.
Just some food for thought.
You are saying I’m suggesting it affect “all adults”. That’s false, I gave a very specific example and circumstance for which this could be applied. Probation officers manage almost all aspects of those they are monitoring that are on probation and all adults don’t need to abide by that system.
Are you seriously suggesting I am a right-wing libertarian for suggesting that there be terms for probation after somebody domestically abuses somebody, especially repeat offenders? Have you ever known somebody on probation or a violent offender and have experience with the systems they go through to reenter society?
The restrictions can be quite harsh and I don’t agree with all of them, but therapy and preventing abuse is desirable after somebody is released from incarceration (and during) for domestic violence.
They saw your spin and took you at face-value. I’m not hurt.
Not once did I suggest all adults and I never suggested licensing. Re-read.
Condition. For. Probation. Or. Incarceration. That’s the nuance and it’s not “rhetorical flair”. You misread or you are in bad faith.
Such a system already exists in some individual people’s terms for probation and adults don’t need to get a license.