Biden added: “Let me be clear: I made the decisions during my presidency. I made the decisions about the pardons, executive orders, legislation and proclamations. Any suggestion that I didn’t is ridiculous and false.”

God damn, so politically stupid to not realize that these political attacks works since he’s still defending himself from these same political attacks.

  • midribbon_action@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    1 day ago

    You can be worse or better about genocide, it’s unequivocally false to say that all genocides are equal. There was a choice. We could have had less killing or more.

    And that’s just from the respective platforms. I don’t think people realize the extent to which Republicans do not listen to or care about their voters. We had an opportunity to put Harris in office and then berate the shit out of her the entire term to be better. That’s not an option anymore. We are very much locked in to whatever braindead idea some billionaire spoons Trump.

            • kreskin@lemmy.world
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              16 hours ago

              oh you’re right bud, committing a racist genocide and ethnic cleansing of tens of thousand is “not perfect”.

              Insightful commentary, well done.

                • kreskin@lemmy.world
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                  16 hours ago

                  well maybe if the dems didnt run a half assed pro war crimes, anti-peasant campaign we wouldnt have lost the election? Hey maybe you could talk to them about that for us? They wont talk with progressives beyond just demanding we do whatever they say without question.

        • rumimevlevi@lemmings.world
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          Yeah, this is kinda ridiculous. If electing Harris would have saved a single Palestinian life, it would’ve been the correct choice.

          Literally nothing was proving that it would be the case literally zero. Israel is refusing to make a cease fire Biden blamed Hamas for it , Harris didn’t criticize that . Now Trump is doing the same.

          The west is refusing to do there goddamn job and do Russian level pressure on Israel. Still selling weapons to Israel and have good trade relations

          • midribbon_action@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            24 hours ago

            Things have materially deteriorated in Gaza directly because of the election. The Christian Republican org GHF, created in February, is engaged in forced relocations and massacres. Bibi would not have cut off all aid to Gaza in March without Republicans blessing and support. Things would be bad, but there are some policy differences regarding Israel between the parties. These were very very clear if you watched or read about the convention speeches. Harris acknowledged the genocide and said her goal was for Palestinians to have self determination. Trump said a bunch of unhinged shit. But his policy has always been pro genocide.

            • rumimevlevi@lemmings.world
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              24 hours ago

              What make you think that Harris would have stopped Israel from blocking aid for 3 months? When under Biden Blinken and Matthew Miller defended every single goddamn war crimes Israel has done ?

              All I know is that the terrorist state of Israel will only stop if heavy sanctions are implemented and stop giving billions to it

              I heard about the two state solution and Palestinian self determination for for 2 decades , I am only 31 years old . The strongest western countries did nothing but even helped Israel maintaining 57 year occupation so all of them are big liars who doesn’t believe in Palestinian determination

              Harris never acknowledged the genocide she just said Palestinians are suffering which genocide joe also say. How genocide trump saying people in Gaza are starving any different?

              • midribbon_action@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                23 hours ago

                A large portion of Republicans, including the GHF, believe that war in Israel will bring about the end of days and they will be raptured. There was a clear choice to be made. There were lives on the line. You yourself acknowledged Trump offered a ‘bit faster genocide’. Now religious extremists are actively engaged, on the ground, in genocide while carrying an American flag. Because of the election. Because of your choice.

                • rumimevlevi@lemmings.world
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                  23 hours ago

                  You keep repeating things i already know about genocide trump and republicans. Regardless of motivation inconditional supports to the terrorist state of israel with billions of aids lkke borh party does will make the genocide continue and occupation continue

                  When there is no sign of the genocide ending there is no big difference between a fast and a little slower genocide.

                  I am not an american. Everybody who didn’t try to make a third party option for centuries is responsible for trump winning and for the genocide

    • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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      Like… This defense of Joe Biden/ Kamala Harris approach to the election keeps getting defended. You are arguing that “less bad” should be good enough.

      Listen the fuck up: IT ISN’T

      We have the fucking data. We ran the fucking experiment.

      Less bad LOSES FUCKING ELECTIONS!!

      Democrats need to do better and if you are running static interference for their failed approach to electoralism: you are trying to lose the next election.

      Your phony, insincere approach to electorism ignores the facts on the ground that for the American Electorate, less bad, it DOESN’T WIN ELECTIONS.

      Democrats want to win a certain way where they don’t have to be better for voters.

      If you keep apologizing for it or defending it, you are committing to losing future elections.

      • Baron Von J@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        Like… This defense of Joe Biden/ Kamala Harris approach to the election keeps getting defended. You are arguing that “less bad” should be good enough.

        No. We’re acknowledge the reality that once it gets to the general election the winner will be either the Democratic or the Republican nominee, and one of them will be more aligned to my preferences than the other (even if it turned out to be only marginally better on only one topic). So given that I have the ability to help determine the winner, I will take it, even if I don’t find the “better” choice to be my ideal choice.

        The general election is not where you pick the best candidate, that’s what the primaries are for. Yes, Biden could have chose to step aside and not run so that other serious candidates could have stepped forward (they still could have even with him running, but they chose not to, and that’s on them individually to have made that choice).

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          24 hours ago

          What you describe sure lookss like the big donors for the DNC define your reality for you and you lap it up dutifully. There has to be more than that. If there isnt then we need to create it, or tear this system down.

          • Baron Von J@lemmy.world
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            23 hours ago

            There has to be more than that. If there isnt then we need to create it

            That is exactly what I’m advocating for. When someone says they didn’t vote because the candidates were bad, I’m going to ask if they voted in the primary, and odds are they did not. In 2022 not one state hit >40% turnout for the primaries (only 1 hit 40%), and in 2020 only 5 states were >40% (but none >45%).

            https://statesunited.org/resources/voter-turnout-since-2000/

            We aren’t creating it, because we aren’t participating in the process to select the nominees. I’m advocating for people to stop waiting to the DNC to and instead rise up and dictate it to them with the power of our vote (something we have not statistically done so far).

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          1 day ago

          It’s not me you have to convince.

          It’s the voters. And they find your reasons wanting.

          You want things to be different than they are, but they aren’t.

          You either meet the voters where they are at or you fail the next election cycle.

          • Baron Von J@lemmy.world
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            23 hours ago

            It’s not me you have to convince.

            If you’re a voter who doesn’t vote in the primaries then you are who I have to convince. If you’re a regular non-voter then you are who I have to convince. If you regularly vote in both, then you’re not who I have to convince.

            It’s the voters. And they find your reasons wanting.

            I’m not talking to voters. I’m talking to people who don’t vote in the primaries and then say they won’t vote in the general because the candidates suck.

            You either meet the voters where they are at or you fail the next election cycle.

            The problem is that is actually what the neolib leaders are doing. They see Republicans coming out to vote more consistently than progressives, so they’re going where the voters are, which happens to be on the right. My argument is for more people on the left to actually be a consistent voter (specifically in the primaries), and then there will better candidates trying to meet you, because you are a vote they can try to win.

            • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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              22 hours ago

              Bro, do not even fucking dare to pretend to know how I vote or how deeply involved I am in politics. I’ve got decades of experience on campaigns in the US.

              If the Democrats continue to do what you are expressing, and thats a key fucking word, because they already tried to do what you are outlining, they will lose all future elections. There is no hope that the imaginary centrist, the actual most unreliable voter in the fucking world, is going to fix this. Democrats only shot at retaking power is to embrace their actual left wing base instead of trying to be diet Republican.

              I keep having to repeat it for you. You don’t know what the fuck you are talking about. We already tried your approach: Its a fucking disaster.

              Remove the centrists, remove the corporatists. Kick them to the fucking curb for the worthless, and key word, unreliable pieces of shit that they are. Give the people something they actually want to fucking vote for and they will.

              • Baron Von J@lemmy.world
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                22 hours ago

                Bro, do not even fucking dare to pretend to know how I vote or how deeply involved I am in politics

                I’m not. I said a bunch of ‘if’ including acknowledging that if you’re already actively engaged then you’re not to whom my advocacy is addressed.

                I’ve got decades of experience on campaigns in the US.

                Nice. I applaud you for that.

                If the Democrats continue to do what you are expressing

                I’m advocating for the eligible voters who don’t vote in one or both of the primaries or the general to vote. I’m telling them to stop waiting for “the Democrats” to altruistically change track and cater to them, because “the Democrats” aren’t going to do that.

                Democrats only shot at retaking power is to embrace their actual left wing base instead of trying to be diet Republican.

                If the left wing base comes out to vote. I’m arguing that they have not been coming out to vote (in the primaries, to ensure the nomination of left wing candidates), and therefore the Democrats do not target them to win the votes they don’t cast.

                We already tried your approach: Its a fucking disaster.

                When? Primary turnout sucks. Looking at all the even years back to 2000 I’m not seeing a single state hitting 50.

                https://statesunited.org/resources/voter-turnout-since-2000/

                Remove the centrists, remove the corporatists. Kick them to the fucking curb for the worthless, and key word, unreliable pieces of shit that they are

                That’s what I’m saying. I’m just saying we the people should do it by voting instead of losing elections by not voting.

                Give the people something they actually want to fucking vote for and they will.

                I don’t believe they will. They didn’t give Bernie to the people of Vermont or AOC to the people of New York or Ilhan Omar to the people of Minnesota. All of them ran in the primary for the Democratic nomination and won by the voters (you probably already know but Bernie won the Vermont Democratic primary for Senator in 2008 then turned it down and ran as an Independent). So let’s take our future ourselves by voting. If the numbers are there and they come out in the primaries then we get what we want.

                • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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                  21 hours ago

                  There isn’t enough time in the world to go through and correct the factual inaccuracies in what you just wrote, let alone the strategic mistakes you are advocating for.

                  I’m advocating for the eligible voters who don’t vote in one or both of the primaries or the general to vote. I’m telling them to stop waiting for “the Democrats” to altruistically change track and cater to them, because “the Democrats” aren’t going to do that.

                  What it comes down to: You want voters to be different than they are.

                  They aren’t. They are how they are. Meet them where they are at or lose.

                  If the left wing base comes out to vote. I’m arguing that they have not been coming out to vote (in the primaries, to ensure the nomination of left wing candidates), and therefore the Democrats do not target them to win the votes they don’t cast.

                  Who the fuck is it that you think does the actual boots-on-the ground volunteering on these campaigns? Fucking Jake Tapper viewers? You have no fucking clue how elections work and who the actual volunteers are, and it shows.

                  You’ve drank a giant bottle of getting mixed the fuck up kool-aid when it comes to cause and effect, and your entire approach to electoralism, one we’ve shown as a failure, depends on basically “wishing” voters to be different than they are. They arent.

                  I don’t believe they will.

                  Bro, no one, not one single soul, should care what you believe. You don’t have a strategy and you are advocating to lose another cycle to fascism.

                  • Baron Von J@lemmy.world
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                    20 hours ago

                    You want voters to be different than they are.

                    I want non-voters to vote. They aren’t voters if they don’t vote. I’m not addressing my comments to people who are already voting. I do don’t know why you find this to be such a controversial take, but you do you.

                    Edit to fix typo.

      • midribbon_action@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        1 day ago

        We are literally watching your accelerationist theory fall apart at this very moment and you still defend it. This is the result you wanted, right? Democrats got their ass handed to them last November so they were forced to admit their mistakes and began pushing their platform further left and taking stronger stances against Republicans and genocide. Right? Surely by now your theory of voting for the worse outcome should have taught them the correct lesson? You aren’t just a useful tool to enable fascism with no upside? Right??

        • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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          Accelerationsism is saying that the Democrats need to step to the right and be more like Republicans to win elections.

          Accelerationism is not saying that Democrats need to focus on their base and speaking to the issues the base finds important, to win elections.

          Your claim that what I’m describing is accelerationist shows you both don’t understand the point I’m making, or what accelerationism is.

          Apologizing and defending the Democrats continued step to the right is accelerationism. You are arguing that voters just need to catch up to this rightward shift.

            • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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              You are just gaslighting at this point.

              The voters aren’t different than they are. They didn’t want to vote for genocide so they didn’t. Harris didn’t offer them another choice so they didn’t show up.

              That’s her fault, and yes, her rightward shift is accelerationism. The defense of that as an approach to electoralism is also accelerationism.

              And it fucking loses elections. Democratic voters aren’t having it. They don’t want right wing politics. They don’t want a right wing Democratic party. They won’t vote for it.

              You have to decide between being an apologist for genocide or winning elections.

              • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                4 hours ago

                Gotta love how liberals have decided to call “I want less murder” now accelerationism.

                They just parrot whatever some commenter said without ever checking what words mean.

                • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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                  I’m just constantly exhausted by having to reign this fantastical thinking in. Years of having to push back against this adolescent and mediocre drivel.

                  And we’ve made great progress. The narrative has truly shifted and people really have moved on their understanding that the Democrats and the manner in which they conduct themselves are fundamental to why fascism continues to accelerate. Not all of them, but its way better than where we were a year ago.

                  But jfc, its tiring.

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                Once again, here we are though, in a paradise of your own creation. Isn’t it great? Aren’t you happy with the state of things? Fascism is in full bloom, access to the polls is shrinking, genocide has sped up. Socialism must be right around the corner, right? Looks like your vote against Harris is going to save the world after all.

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                  23 hours ago

                  genocide has sped up.

                  Check your murder numbers, so far thats just not true. You might be right long term, but the vast bulk of the genocide of civilians based on their ehtnicity happened on Bidens watch. And your couching those words the way you did shows you are in denial about it. You think “our side” must be “the good guys” where the ‘slightly better’ outcomes happen.

                  All dem voters were betrayed and thats a big part of why the lefty Dem voters are extremely angry and are revolting against centrist leadership and the fundamentals of our party setup. They have very good reasons to be angry. It would be a good start for the party to acknowledge that betrayal, apologize, and state unequivocally they wont do that again. Until that happens this wound will sit and fester, and more elections that should be slam dunks will be lost-- assuming we have any more.

                  You cant just dust over genocide and pretend its not there. Enough of us are well past helping you pretend thats the case. Thats my definition of accelerationism, and its not up for your approval.

                • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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                  1 day ago

                  Who is living the fiction here?

                  Democrats litterally did precisely what you’ve outlined here. They lost the election. The failed to engage with their voters on their voters terms.

                  They lost. Your approach loses. It’s a losing strategy. You can’t move an electorate. You can move a candidate. Expecting voters to change to accept a bad candidate loses elections. Stop fucking advocating for it.