Patrick Minnis, an atmospheric scientist with NASA’s Langley Research Center, has said that logic does not dissuade most chemtrail proponents: “If you try to pin these people down and refute things, it’s, ‘Well, you’re just part of the conspiracy’”.
Dude on my Facebook posted a Pic of some repurposed 747 with a bunch of tubes in the cabin with a caption about the chemtrail stuff taking up space. Like, motherfucker, if it takes that much space, how is every passenger jet doing it??
I mean, every single flight spraying chemicals is ridiculous.
But a conspiracy that a small number of jet planes have tanks specifically designed for spraying chemicals at high altitude is not unbelievable at all.
Understanding is cemented in one’s original source of information about the world. Shaping a pre-existing understand requires not just accuracy but volume, because you’re not competing against faulty logic. You’re competing against accumulated memories.
If someone is deep into the conspiracy theory rabbit hole, what is shaping their opinion is the consistent repetition of orthodoxy over time. Similarly, if someone is highly educated in a particular scientific field, their opinion is shaped by the persistent need to reaffirm fundamental truths in order to succeed and progress. We are not computers. We are not creatures of pure logic. We are the accumulation of our prior experiences and exposures.
You should not be surprised if an individual - when confronted with a narrow band of contrary information - does not immediately jettison all their prior information. Because ask yourself - would you? I mean, if a single guy showed up with a stack of papers insisting he’s proved without a shadow of a doubt that chemtrails are real and the entire professional weather reporting community is lying to you, is there anything they could show you that you wouldn’t greet with skepticism proportional to your exposure to professional weather science?
Because, if the answer is “No”, then why would you expect someone immersed in hundreds of hours of conspiracy theory podcasts and think pieces and social media conversations to behave any differently?
Because even if chemtrails were a thing they’re logistically impractical. There are multiple unlikely leaps of logic
There are multiple steps of logic here
can aircraft spray chemicals? Sure, we have ag planes and fire fighting planes. In Vietnamese War we sprayed defoliant
is there a mind control chemical that can be sprayed?
if there was, could someone benefit from widespread dispersion?
can you spread it through jet engine exhaust within it destroying it?
is it possible to include with regularly scheduled air service without passengers or crew noticing?
how many people would have to be in on the conspiracy and what are the chances of keeping it secret so long?
So the current examples of spraying from plane do so all at once through special equipment. You’d notice plus can’t really be widespread. It’s extremely unlikely a chemical could be mixed into jet fuel, survive the combustion process, and be spread with enough concentration to be useful. There’s no way such a large program would go unnoticed, could possibly be kept secret. Most importantly, for what purpose? If someone were trying to mind control the whole country what does it benefit to dose a random person in a field with no special skill or access and where there’s no one around to control them?
Is there something real behind these people’s paranoia and suspicion? Do our government, military, and our corporations inspire trust?
No, the US government, as with every government, does not deserve trust. They are not your friend. They will lie to you, directly or by omission.
However, all governments are bad at coverups. Chem trails would need to have entire leagues and fields paid off and prohibited from investigating it. Not just in America, but world wide. If America was doing Chem trails, there’s nothing really prohibiting China or Russia from calling it out. They have zero reasons to agree to deals to limit their scientists, as it would be a major shake up in geopolitics. America in that instance could not be trusted with any claims of its scientific achievements.
I don’t really buy into a moon landing hoax or a JFK cover up. By now, everything and everyone involved would have had to been paid off, including families, scientists, historians, and more.
You don’t need to be mad at a vague shadow government, you can be mad at the actual government for what they are actually doing. Be mad at Tuskegee and Gulf of Tonkin, not 9/11 with wire bombs and plane holograms.
I’m not making an argument for chemtrails. It’s pointless to speculate about, there is no evidence or smoking gun.
I’m just suggesting that we be kind and empathetic towards individuals that do believe these sorts of things. Is it out of character for the US government? Nah, not really.
Many of these people probably were living in or around 1969. In their lived reality, the US government was doing shit like this. Have things really gotten better?
I really appreciate your take and efforts to be compassionate about the loads of people who simply were let down by a lack of, or sometimes learned cultural opposition to, education. We’re paying for it so hard right now.
I mean, yeah, MK-Ultra was a very real program, for instance. The Cold War Era was loaded with shadowy nonsense conducted by spooks, all over the place! Real conspiracies totally happened!
But people on the whole crave sensation and don’t have the logic or education to discern between whistleblowers and grifters.
I think the part that is so painful is that there’s just so much noise.
It feels like conspiracy theories generally used to be…More harmless? More often the stuff of kooky neighbors and not always dangerously deluded basement militants and chart-topping podcasts.
Now it’s a carefully engineered, algorithmically driven pipeline from the former to the latter.
Now, thanks to social media, they’re politically weaponized psy-ops: Get the masses all riled up about aliens, mind-control vaccines, and satanic child-farming underground pizza delivery chain networks…
…And they won’t bother to focus their energy any real and “boring” conspiracies, like monopoly-forming, price fixing, shrinkflation, planned obsolescence, cop unions, the insurance industry, manufacturing consent, stock market manipulation, wage theft, billionaire bunkers, car-required civic planning, surveillance normalization, gerrymandering, Cambridge Analytica, McKinsey, class warfare, too-much-to-list about Boeing…
Because those are very real problems perpetuated by very bad powerful people, and they take a ton of very risky work to fix.
And those conspiracies are so very boring and predictable, because it’s a massive shell game with a million little nodes that all lead to countless instances of “Someone is doing these bad things to amass more money or influence.”
Last note: It’s also really odd and telling how the ones who are SO adamant about government conspiracies don’t tend to care much about corporations.
Government mind control chips in water (to make us more… subservient or something?) Totes!
But ad companies listening to your devices to figure out when you’re at your weakest to push ads for foolish purchases?
If I was there, if I was involved in law enforcement, if I had access to the crime scene and raw footage I might be able to speculate. Armchair speculation is insufficient for me.
There are plenty of events that raise legitimate questions and concerns - like suspicious, high profile deaths that are immediately ruled as suicide. Everybody is free to hold their own positions and perspectives as far as I am concerned. Question on, sate your concern and curiosity, you’ll get no arguments against that from me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory
Dude on my Facebook posted a Pic of some repurposed 747 with a bunch of tubes in the cabin with a caption about the chemtrail stuff taking up space. Like, motherfucker, if it takes that much space, how is every passenger jet doing it??
Isn’t the conspiracy that some planes are doing it. Not all planes?
Depends on who you ask.
I mean, every single flight spraying chemicals is ridiculous.
But a conspiracy that a small number of jet planes have tanks specifically designed for spraying chemicals at high altitude is not unbelievable at all.
Those diagrams and pictures are a disinformation campaign. They show a system that obviously can’t function, so you dismiss the theory out of hand.
But the reality is that they mix the mind control chemicals directly into regular jet fuel. The pilots don’t even know they are involved.
/s
You can’t ration people out of positions they did not rationalize themselves into.
That or you’re just “asleep” and need to “wake up”.
But these are the same people saying things are too “Woke”
So which is it?
🤣
Wake up, but don’t be woke, obviously.
So be half asleep
Understanding is cemented in one’s original source of information about the world. Shaping a pre-existing understand requires not just accuracy but volume, because you’re not competing against faulty logic. You’re competing against accumulated memories.
If someone is deep into the conspiracy theory rabbit hole, what is shaping their opinion is the consistent repetition of orthodoxy over time. Similarly, if someone is highly educated in a particular scientific field, their opinion is shaped by the persistent need to reaffirm fundamental truths in order to succeed and progress. We are not computers. We are not creatures of pure logic. We are the accumulation of our prior experiences and exposures.
You should not be surprised if an individual - when confronted with a narrow band of contrary information - does not immediately jettison all their prior information. Because ask yourself - would you? I mean, if a single guy showed up with a stack of papers insisting he’s proved without a shadow of a doubt that chemtrails are real and the entire professional weather reporting community is lying to you, is there anything they could show you that you wouldn’t greet with skepticism proportional to your exposure to professional weather science?
Because, if the answer is “No”, then why would you expect someone immersed in hundreds of hours of conspiracy theory podcasts and think pieces and social media conversations to behave any differently?
Because even if chemtrails were a thing they’re logistically impractical. There are multiple unlikely leaps of logic
There are multiple steps of logic here
So the current examples of spraying from plane do so all at once through special equipment. You’d notice plus can’t really be widespread. It’s extremely unlikely a chemical could be mixed into jet fuel, survive the combustion process, and be spread with enough concentration to be useful. There’s no way such a large program would go unnoticed, could possibly be kept secret. Most importantly, for what purpose? If someone were trying to mind control the whole country what does it benefit to dose a random person in a field with no special skill or access and where there’s no one around to control them?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea-Spray
From the page:
239 open-air tests of biological agents in a 20 year period. Remind me again why people have no reason to be paranoid? This wasn’t that long ago.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States
These aren’t conspiracy theories.
Is there something real behind these people’s paranoia and suspicion? Do our government, military, and our corporations inspire trust?
No, the US government, as with every government, does not deserve trust. They are not your friend. They will lie to you, directly or by omission.
However, all governments are bad at coverups. Chem trails would need to have entire leagues and fields paid off and prohibited from investigating it. Not just in America, but world wide. If America was doing Chem trails, there’s nothing really prohibiting China or Russia from calling it out. They have zero reasons to agree to deals to limit their scientists, as it would be a major shake up in geopolitics. America in that instance could not be trusted with any claims of its scientific achievements.
I don’t really buy into a moon landing hoax or a JFK cover up. By now, everything and everyone involved would have had to been paid off, including families, scientists, historians, and more.
You don’t need to be mad at a vague shadow government, you can be mad at the actual government for what they are actually doing. Be mad at Tuskegee and Gulf of Tonkin, not 9/11 with wire bombs and plane holograms.
I’m not making an argument for chemtrails. It’s pointless to speculate about, there is no evidence or smoking gun.
I’m just suggesting that we be kind and empathetic towards individuals that do believe these sorts of things. Is it out of character for the US government? Nah, not really.
Many of these people probably were living in or around 1969. In their lived reality, the US government was doing shit like this. Have things really gotten better?
EDIT: Sorry for the essay LOL.
I really appreciate your take and efforts to be compassionate about the loads of people who simply were let down by a lack of, or sometimes learned cultural opposition to, education. We’re paying for it so hard right now.
I mean, yeah, MK-Ultra was a very real program, for instance. The Cold War Era was loaded with shadowy nonsense conducted by spooks, all over the place! Real conspiracies totally happened!
But people on the whole crave sensation and don’t have the logic or education to discern between whistleblowers and grifters.
I think the part that is so painful is that there’s just so much noise.
It feels like conspiracy theories generally used to be…More harmless? More often the stuff of kooky neighbors and not always dangerously deluded basement militants and chart-topping podcasts.
Now it’s a carefully engineered, algorithmically driven pipeline from the former to the latter.
Now, thanks to social media, they’re politically weaponized psy-ops: Get the masses all riled up about aliens, mind-control vaccines, and satanic child-farming underground pizza delivery chain networks…
…And they won’t bother to focus their energy any real and “boring” conspiracies, like monopoly-forming, price fixing, shrinkflation, planned obsolescence, cop unions, the insurance industry, manufacturing consent, stock market manipulation, wage theft, billionaire bunkers, car-required civic planning, surveillance normalization, gerrymandering, Cambridge Analytica, McKinsey, class warfare, too-much-to-list about Boeing…
Because those are very real problems perpetuated by very bad powerful people, and they take a ton of very risky work to fix.
And those conspiracies are so very boring and predictable, because it’s a massive shell game with a million little nodes that all lead to countless instances of “Someone is doing these bad things to amass more money or influence.”
Last note: It’s also really odd and telling how the ones who are SO adamant about government conspiracies don’t tend to care much about corporations.
Government mind control chips in water (to make us more… subservient or something?) Totes!
But ad companies listening to your devices to figure out when you’re at your weakest to push ads for foolish purchases?
Naaaaah!
Thanks for the response, I enjoyed reading it and our sentiment largely aligns.
They once were, and then they were proven to be true.
Of course, a true conspiracy unfolds because the masses are unaware. The masses are gaslit if they start catching on.
But in the absence of compelling evidence, it’s pointless to wildly speculate about from my perspective.
I think that is lazy and naive. For example, is it really pointless to speculate about the official explanation for, say, the deadliest mass shooting by a lone gunman in American history?
If I was there, if I was involved in law enforcement, if I had access to the crime scene and raw footage I might be able to speculate. Armchair speculation is insufficient for me.
There are plenty of events that raise legitimate questions and concerns - like suspicious, high profile deaths that are immediately ruled as suicide. Everybody is free to hold their own positions and perspectives as far as I am concerned. Question on, sate your concern and curiosity, you’ll get no arguments against that from me.