But NO ONE has the right to change the outline of borders by means of war. The world has lost a few million people so that everyone should have learned that lesson.
So it’s bad when Russia does it but the US is correct in backing Israel changing its borders through imperialism?
Like xor said, you seem to have quite the understanding of my views on topics I’ve not even discussed. Also whataboutism and gaslighting - have you perhaps run out of arguments? [Edit: after revisiting the thread, I’ve realised that you never even wrote an argument. Gaslighting and whataboutism is the only thing you do. And if you were to count them as arguments, you’re clearly argumenting in bad faith.]
Take a step back and ask yourselves in whose interest you’re argumenting. I myself am arguing in my own interest that is perhaps selfish. Yet based on that interest I believe it is correct to say Ukraine needs to not lose and better yet win. Otherwise Russia set the precedent that war is once again ultima ratio of diplomacy. Something the world more or less unitedly felt to be outdated. Yes, countries have used wars to push interests in other countries, mostly to change the leadership (most famously the USA and the USSR, but also China, France, the UK).
No major power tried to move borders prior to Russia’s illegal attack on Ukraine.
As for Israel my interest lies in lasting peace and to ensure that there will always be a place where Jews are welcome. To that end the war needs to end now. Israel mustn’t further fan the flames. The surrounding countries must find a way to live in peace with Israel. Israel must revise their constitution to allow for actually equal rights of any non-Jewish people, ideally by forming a state union with Palestine with equal representation of the latter. And such a country should be formed in the same mindset as post-war Germany.
But saying all that, there’s a massive difference in complexity between the two. The Gaza war has a convoluted mess of history to it. Solving that is not only challenging but necessary to achieve even a semblance of peace that has any chance of lasting. The war in Ukraine is much simpler. There’s not even a remote semblance of justification to it. It is literally just: Russia must stop the war and attempt to reverse the damages caused as far as that is possible.
And out of interest for future World peace, the ones responsible need to face legal consequences by a tribunal that is impartial and non-partisan.
Otherwise Russia set the precedent that war is once again ultima ratio of diplomacy.
This statement betrays an ignorance of history including military efforts by western nations to create the state of Israel.
No major power tried to move borders prior to Russia’s illegal attack on Ukraine.
You can still delete this blatant misinformation.
to ensure that there will always be a place where Jews are welcome
This place already exists in countless cities around the world outside of Israel. Many cities are home to both thousands of Jews and Muslims who get along fine in tightly packed urban environments.
The surrounding countries must find a way to live in peace with Israel.
Why falsely imply that Israelis have equal agency compared to the desperately poor they occupy?
The war in Ukraine is much simpler
You show no understanding of Slavic history, nor geopolitical balance including the significance of buffer states. Otherwise you would not boldly oversimplify an equally nuanced conflict.
Now you are sort of arguing. Frankly though, I’ve tried to engage in a debate with you, but if all you do after you’ve finally put forth something of an argument is to be condescending, then I am going to stop this here. You could have elaborated on your arguments but you instead chose to use them in attempt to insult me.
So now that all bets are of, you are an apologetic shill for a dictator and you seem to have fallen for all of his blatant lies. But yes sure play the old western imperialism fiddle - that’s all you apparently can do.
You’ve not made any points. You have just stated for my knowledge to insufficient. Do you expect me to counter that? That is simply a waste of effort if you don’t even try to put forth arguments.
“Your inability to see past propaganda and to Folter out unnecessary supposed history and cultural peculiarities is the reason you’re completely lulled in by Russian propaganda”.
So it’s bad when Russia does it but the US is correct in backing Israel changing its borders through imperialism?
No hypocrisy detected by you?
They never even mentioned Israel, you just decided that was their stance so you could call them a hypocrite
Like xor said, you seem to have quite the understanding of my views on topics I’ve not even discussed. Also whataboutism and gaslighting - have you perhaps run out of arguments? [Edit: after revisiting the thread, I’ve realised that you never even wrote an argument. Gaslighting and whataboutism is the only thing you do. And if you were to count them as arguments, you’re clearly argumenting in bad faith.]
Take a step back and ask yourselves in whose interest you’re argumenting. I myself am arguing in my own interest that is perhaps selfish. Yet based on that interest I believe it is correct to say Ukraine needs to not lose and better yet win. Otherwise Russia set the precedent that war is once again ultima ratio of diplomacy. Something the world more or less unitedly felt to be outdated. Yes, countries have used wars to push interests in other countries, mostly to change the leadership (most famously the USA and the USSR, but also China, France, the UK). No major power tried to move borders prior to Russia’s illegal attack on Ukraine.
As for Israel my interest lies in lasting peace and to ensure that there will always be a place where Jews are welcome. To that end the war needs to end now. Israel mustn’t further fan the flames. The surrounding countries must find a way to live in peace with Israel. Israel must revise their constitution to allow for actually equal rights of any non-Jewish people, ideally by forming a state union with Palestine with equal representation of the latter. And such a country should be formed in the same mindset as post-war Germany.
But saying all that, there’s a massive difference in complexity between the two. The Gaza war has a convoluted mess of history to it. Solving that is not only challenging but necessary to achieve even a semblance of peace that has any chance of lasting. The war in Ukraine is much simpler. There’s not even a remote semblance of justification to it. It is literally just: Russia must stop the war and attempt to reverse the damages caused as far as that is possible.
And out of interest for future World peace, the ones responsible need to face legal consequences by a tribunal that is impartial and non-partisan.
This statement betrays an ignorance of history including military efforts by western nations to create the state of Israel.
You can still delete this blatant misinformation.
This place already exists in countless cities around the world outside of Israel. Many cities are home to both thousands of Jews and Muslims who get along fine in tightly packed urban environments.
Why falsely imply that Israelis have equal agency compared to the desperately poor they occupy?
You show no understanding of Slavic history, nor geopolitical balance including the significance of buffer states. Otherwise you would not boldly oversimplify an equally nuanced conflict.
Now you are sort of arguing. Frankly though, I’ve tried to engage in a debate with you, but if all you do after you’ve finally put forth something of an argument is to be condescending, then I am going to stop this here. You could have elaborated on your arguments but you instead chose to use them in attempt to insult me.
So now that all bets are of, you are an apologetic shill for a dictator and you seem to have fallen for all of his blatant lies. But yes sure play the old western imperialism fiddle - that’s all you apparently can do.
Your inability to respond to even a single point is little surprise.
You’ve not made any points. You have just stated for my knowledge to insufficient. Do you expect me to counter that? That is simply a waste of effort if you don’t even try to put forth arguments.
“Your inability to see past propaganda and to Folter out unnecessary supposed history and cultural peculiarities is the reason you’re completely lulled in by Russian propaganda”.
There, now I’ve done the same, respond then
Would you rather discuss the weather?
Q.e.d. you’re not discussing anyway so what’s the point
Words words words