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bubblybubbles@lemmy.ml to Memes@lemmy.ml · 4 days ago

Average convo with liberals when Ukraine comes up

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Average convo with liberals when Ukraine comes up

lemmy.ml

bubblybubbles@lemmy.ml to Memes@lemmy.ml · 4 days ago
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  • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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    2 days ago

    Yanukovych was not a puppet. The IMF loan came with stipulations requiring austerity, the Russian loan did not. Secondly, Russia is intervening directly in the Donbass region. It isn’t dubious at all that Crimea and the Donbass are heavily Russian, they were added to Ukraine only a century ago.

    • MyMindIsLikeAnOcean@piefed.world
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      2 days ago

      Not a puppet? Spare me. Where is he right now? What a coincidence!

      Did you intentionally misunderstand what I said? They could have just taken the territories they wanted that were supposedly majority Russian and left it at that…the west wouldn’t have done shit about it. But they didn’t, did they?

      • Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml
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        2 days ago

        They’re right, cry about it

      • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
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        2 days ago

        Not a puppet? Spare me.

        Faith based politics

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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        2 days ago

        They are taking historically Russian areas like Donetsk and Luhansk. The west is doing what it wants because it’s using Ukraine as a proxy war to damage Russia, and is carving Ukraine out for resources. Yanukovych escaping the far-right Banderites that the west supported doesn’t mean he was a puppet either. You’re deeply confused here.

        • MyMindIsLikeAnOcean@piefed.world
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          2 days ago

          Imagine being so communist and/or anti-American that you can’t criticize a fascist capitalist state over a liberal capitalist state.

          You’re too smart to make the argument that Russia’s actions are restricted to the areas they allege are majority Russian.

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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            19 hours ago

            Kiev is run by far-right neo-Nazis that uphold Stepan Bandera. The Russian Federation isn’t socialist by any means, but it isn’t run by literal neo-Nazis and it isn’t ethnically cleansing anyone.

            • MyMindIsLikeAnOcean@piefed.world
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              17 hours ago

              This is just Russian propaganda.

              Here in reality, no, Ukraine isn’t run by neo Nazis. Are some people in the army Nazis? Yes, of course…people who like to kill other people are generally terrible people.

              It’s amazing that, for whatever reason, people give such a pass to Russia. Russia is a fascist dictatorship that absolutely ethnically cleanses groups all over the country and it’s satellites.

              • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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                13 hours ago

                This post is three days old, this thread is buried deep, and the only people still here are ones who you’re not going to convince because they know you don’t know what you’re talking about. It is you who are repeating propaganda, as if we haven’t heard it all a thousand times before.

                We know all the same things you know and a whole lot of things you don’t, because we’ve actually investigated. If you have a commitment to the truth and the luxury of time, you can, too. Previously.

                • MyMindIsLikeAnOcean@piefed.world
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                  11 hours ago

                  I know exactly what I’m talking about. I’m more skeptical than all these zero sum pro Russians combined.

                  If you read what I wrote instead of babbling what you wanted to react to…you’d not mice I’m not pro Ukraine…I’m just aware that Russia is a dictatorship that’s also full of Nazis.

                  • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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                    11 hours ago

                    Russia is no more a dictatorship than the US or Ukraine are. They’re all oligarchies, run by the consent of the bourgeoisie. [Princeton & Northwestern] Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy

                    Putin actually is popular. Russians have good reason to like him: he kicked the Western capitalist neoliberal shock therapy plunderers out of the country, whom Yeltsin let in. It’s still a capitalist shithole, but at least it’s their shithole and not a neocolonized state anymore.

                    Russia isn’t “full” of Nazis, though it certainly does have some fascists. I don’t know where you get that from. It’s not like you provide any evidence for your assertions.

              • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                14 hours ago

                No, it’s reality that you’re denying. Ukraine is run by neo-Nazis, as was reported by the west, which you still disagree with as “Russian propaganda.” From @[email protected]

                • BBC, 2014: Ukraine underplays role of far right in conflict
                • Human Rights Watch, 2014: Ukraine: Unguided Rockets Killing Civilians
                • The Hill, 2017: The reality of neo-Nazis in Ukraine is far from Kremlin propaganda
                • The Guardian, 2017: ‘I want to bring up a warrior’: Ukraine’s far-right children’s camp – video
                • WaPo, 2018: The war in Ukraine is more devastating than you know
                • Reuters, 2018: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem
                • The Nation, 2019: Neo-Nazis and the Far Right Are On the March in Ukraine
                • openDemocracy, 2019: Why Ukraine’s new language law will have long-term consequences
                • Jacobin, 2022: A US-Backed, Far Right–Led Revolution in Ukraine Helped Bring Us to the Brink of War
                • Consortium News, 2022: Evidence of US-Backed Coup in Kiev
                • Al Jazeera, 2022: Why did Ukraine suspend 11 ‘pro-Russia’ parties?
                • History of Fascism in Ukraine: Part I, Part II, Part III, Part IV

                Russia isn’t ethnically cleansing people, Kiev is.

                • MyMindIsLikeAnOcean@piefed.world
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                  11 hours ago

                  You don’t need to flood the zone…everybody is aware there’s Neo-Nazis in Ukraine, like there’s Neo-Nazis in Russia, and everywhere else.

                  It’s absolutely Russian propaganda to present them as the entirely of Ukraine, and ignore that Russia is also  full of Nazis. Russia is also a repressive fascistic dictatorship.

                  Don’t know what cooked your brain that you need to hyper focus on Ukraine’s problems and ignore Russia’s:

                  https://www.sova-center.ru/en/xenophobia/reports-analyses/2025/02/d47102/ Independent Russian monitoring group SOVA documents trends in ideologically motivated violence, victim counts, and state responses, highlighting a resurgence of street attacks and online glorification of violence.

                  https://jacobin.com/2024/12/neo-nazis-russia-ukraine-violence/ Long-form analysis linking wartime propaganda and online clout culture to renewed visibility of violent neo‑Nazi groups and their recruitment tactics.

                  https://russianlife.com/the-russia-file/neo-nazis-return-to-russian-streets/ Magazine piece synthesizing reporting on street violence, Telegram channels, and SOVA statistics showing rising incidents in 2024.

                  https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RRA3450-1.html Policy research on how Kremlin narratives about “denazification” are used strategically; useful for understanding state propaganda and external messaging.

                  https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/2/4/503446.pdf Official OSCE materials and delegations’ statements addressing neo‑Nazi glorification and related regional concerns.

                  https://carnegie-mec.org/russia-eurasia/research Scholarly analyses on Russian nationalism, state‑far‑right interactions, and implications.

                  https://carnegieendowment.org/research/2024/11/how-the-traumas-of-2004-blinded-putin?lang=en Contextual piece linking historical trauma narratives to contemporary securitized rhetoric that can empower extremist frames.

                  https://www.brookings.edu/regions/europe-eurasia/russia/ Policy briefs and expert commentary on Russian domestic politics, including far‑right trends and security implications.

                  https://meduza.io/en/feature/2024/12/06/neo-nazi-street-attacks-are-making-a-comeback-in-russia-experts-link-it-to-2000s-nostalgia-internet-clout-culture-and-the-war Investigative reporting on viral attack videos, Telegram ecosystems, and cultural drivers behind renewed violence.

                  https://www.isdglobal.org/isd-in-the-news/isds-steven-rai-on-the-resurgence-of-the-neo-nazi-accelerationist-group-the-base/ Expert commentary on transnational neo‑Nazi networks, recruitment, and links to conflict zones.

                  https://www.dagens.com/war/neo-nazi-terror-group-with-ties-to-russia-recruits-for-attacks-in-ukraine News coverage of recruitment and alleged operational ties between extremist cells and Russian interests.

                  https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jarees2001/2002/31/2002_31_57////_article Academic study tracing ideological roots, party actors, and social drivers of neo‑Nazi movements in Russia.

                  https://academic.oup.com/book/45836/chapter/400752581 Scholarly chapter on neo‑Nazi networks in Russian prisons and their social dynamics.

                  https://www.academia.edu/41133663/From_Red_to_Black_The_rise_of_Neo_Nazism_in_Russia_in_the_90 Historical overview useful for tracing evolution from 1990s skinhead subculture to modern groups.

                  https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/9/30/putin-says-ukraine-goals-will-be-achieved-as-he-repeats-neo-nazi-claims Reporting on official rhetoric that invokes “neo‑Nazi” narratives as justification for policy and war.

                  No idea what radicalized you…for some people it’s because they’re tankies…for others it’s because they’re insane anti Americans. At the end of the day you’ve got tunnel vision and blinders.

                  • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                    9 hours ago

                    The leadership in Kiev is neo-Nazi, it isn’t just a small group. Ukrainian citizens are suffering under the Banderite regime. Russia has neo-Nazis too, but they aren’t infesting the leadership, who are mostly nationalists supported by the majority of people for kicking out foreign imperialists that were plundering the country in the 90s. What radicalized me against western imperialism is living in a dying capitalist empire. I consume plenty of media from the west, there’s no tunnel vision nor blinders on. Being a communist and being anti-US Empire isn’t “insane.”

          • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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            2 days ago

            Imagine being so communist and/or anti-American that you can’t criticize a fascist capitalist state over a liberal capitalist state.

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