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Yoooo, I have two kids who I have never laid a hand on, and they behave extremely well compared to their peers (not perfect by any means, but I am very happy with them). My father beat the shit out of me when I was a kid, and what did that get him? Me hating him until now. I still help him and take care of him, but to be 100% honest, I don’t have love for the man. You don’t need to beat a little being who has no defense to make them behave, this is just absurd and stupid.
How about we just say no to the idea of beating kids
If your kid comes home from school saying another kid beat them up ofc you’d be horrified yet some parents are okay with hitting their own kids and it makes no sense
Every child i encounter is extremely well behaved
“Those pesky kids need a beating” is a meme several thousands years old
Yeah but then I see grown ass adults doing the same shit. And since they’re my age they more than likely got beat.
The answer isn’t to beat your kids though. I just think the current generation is taking the good advice to not hit your kids and is too impatient (or doesn’t have enough time) to actually raise kids that aren’t screaming all the damn time.
The whole “don’t say ‘no’ to your child“ …we’re gonna have a whole generation who won’t understand what nonconsent is. In a literal way too.
I do not understand these people who think boundaries break others. It’s massively flawed and problematic to train humans like this. It’s sabotaging their kids into being abusers and thinking they are above being kind.
We all have choices to be assholes. To be an asshole is a choice. Don’t make it their only option.
I have come to understand that the whole “don’t say no” thing is less about directly saying no and leaving it at that and more about taking the time to explain things to your child.
When it comes to new situations for things that I haven’t yet encountered I don’t just say no. I sit down with them and explain to them why.
Yes there are times when I will just say no, like when they know what the answer is going to be and understand why but are just doing it to do it, or if there isn’t time in that specific moment to explain I would preface it with that and then explain it later.
I think people misinterpret the whole don’t say no thing sometimes and literally just give their kids whatever they want which is obviously not good. Boundaries are not optional, and like you mention it is a flawed way of thinking and will absolutely lead to problems down the road.
Try telling your kids not to scream.
… and watch them screaming even more just to annoy you.
/woosh
Kids don’t “scream JUST to annoy you”. If you think that you might be the parent people are complaining about.
Kids are gonna be kids sometimes mate. But they are people not. They aren’t doing something “just to annoy you”. They have reasons they act the way they do. And it’s always because of who raised them.
My point was about actually being a parent and being able to raise a child with mutual respect. It’s obviously not just “stop screaming”.
The biggest thing is teaching your child that screaming does not get them positive results. Lots of parents have a really hard time transitioning from raising an infant, to raising a toddler, to raising a kid.
By the time they are a teenager they are still whining like an infant to get what they want.
I heard a kid screaming in public a couple weeks ago. I swear to God it sounded like a toddler having a tantrum. I look over and it’s literally a kid at least 10 years old. It blew my mind. The parents where treating him like an infant trying to find out what he wanted.
I agree much of this comes down to parenting. I’m right with you on the passive parenting. It’s introducing unnecessary problems upon the child and society.
That said random kids we see could also have learning disabilities that aren’t apparent at first.
My nephew is on autistic spectrum and does tantrums at 12 all because plans change (part of life but he’s still struggling with that despite consistency). He doesn’t appear at first as any different from any teenager until he’s triggered. It’s not appropriate. We always remind him to speak respectfully. He has a younger sister who is way more adjusted by comparison (has normal tween struggles) but she’s not as neurodivergent. Basic parenting advice on behavior is working for her.
Though it can be a struggle to talk a child out of this when it’s beyond just understanding. Learning to cope is just taking longer for this teen. Possibly aging into medication and long term therapy. It took that for my other niece on a different spectrum who’s still finding the right medication and adjusting.
Just something to consider when judging random ppl.
Wow, I was actually agreeing with you here. Telling your kids to not scream does not work.
So yes, woosh apparently.
Well given the equal up and down votes on your comment I think your reply can clearly be interpreted as disagreement. Also, saying kids “scream just to annoy you” is ignorant.
Don’t make an unclear ignorant comment and expect people to take it in good faith.
It’s so fucking insane to me that the majority of Americans think beating your kids is acceptable and even healthy
Then You haven’t met Australians
Well, neither is true, though. Newer generations don’t just magically have less patience. Nor children today are more prone to tantrums and screaming than children in the past 30 million years. That’s just good old, “back in my days”, backwards thinking that has, ironically, also always existed amongst the older generations.
It’s a song and dance, driven by evolution, it has happened before and it will continue to happen. As this thread and hundreds of threads, and newspaper articles, and postcards, and letters, and books, and clay tablets and campfire rants have proven, ever since humans developed speech.
Kids these days.
The internet has drastically and measurably changed the behavior and attention span of children.
Socrates said the same thing about books.
And that is equally true.
We said the same thing. Of the TV. And the radio before that. And of the comics before that. And of the theater before that. And of the circus before that. Etc.
We ought to be careful of many pseudoscientific claims. Specially in psychology. We don’t have a control group of children before the advent of the internet to compare today’s children with. The “i 'member!” crowd are now all adults, a group who are notoriously biased and bad at being objective regarding their own childhood.
We can compare today’s children with and without certain habits, and indeed it has been found that mobile internet access, and social media specially, are detrimental to children in some personality development aspects and cognitive skills. But this is not a pass to make broad generalizations of entire generations of all children and parents across the globe. That’s just generational bigotry.
Like, different habits lead to different behaviors? Sure, no shit. But that doesn’t change the fundamental make up of human beings.
I’m a little confused why you don’t think there have been journaled studies on the differences between children with access to technology and those without. Some examples are impoverished communities and countries and people in strict religious sects. TV, radio, books, they have all had an impact on they way brains develop and process information. Biologically no, if you pluck a newborn and place them in North Sentinel Island, they will adapt perfectly. But that’s the thing, the human mind is meant to adapt to its surroundings. The surrounding of the majority of children today is being absolutely bombarded with distractions, and it has a measurable affect on behavior across the board.
I see a lot of objectionable behavior out in public. A lot of it is from children. But most of it is not. If I’m thinking through my 10 worst flight experiences, or subway experiences, or coffee shop experiences, none of them involve children. Children are mostly a mild annoyance (and I say this as someone who mostly doesn’t like other people’s kids), but mostly harmless.
So the reaction of singling out the children for immediate correction, through physical force and violence, seems to be selectively targeted, and makes me suspect it’s just people who just don’t like children. Unless these same people say that a person holding up the line, playing music too loud on the subway, getting too close in your personal space, throwing trash on the ground, catcalling women, using slurs in public, etc., all deserve to be beaten, too.
And for people in the thread who are saying stuff like “oh yeah you shouldn’t beat your kids, but you should keep those children out of public places,” it also calls to mind the way some people talk about the homeless or the disabled, like they’re ruining your good time by simply existing within your vicinity.
We’re all just trying to coexist. Being in public, in a place open and accessible to everyone else, is inherently going to involve compromise, where we’re not able to exclude others (the deal that comes with them not being able to exclude you). You can’t let other people aggravate you enough to, like, post a TikTok about it (which I also consider to be objectionable behavior).
The kind of attitude you are talking about here is btw called adultism, which is a selective bias against children.
My 11-month old is an absolute saint when we’re out and about, then a horrifying tornado of destruction when he’s at home. I suspect a lot of it is just boredom, but its hard to tell because… 11-mo olds aren’t great at verbalizing their discontent.
As he gets older and he starts losing that starstruck look of wonderment at the mall or a new restaurant or wherever, I suspect he’ll be harder to control. But he’s also incredibly clever, athletic, and curious. I don’t want to discourage any of this just to make parenting a bit easier in the short term.
Can’t fucking imagine actually hitting him. I know what that did to me after the rare few times my mom did it. I still can’t bring myself to forgive her 30 years later. And there’s no way I want my son thinking of me that way.
They’re experiencing restraint collapse.
You’re doing a great job parenting! It’s one of the most difficult jobs in the world to do well. Restraint collapse is a great indicator that you’re doing well. It’s also hell because you take everything on. Thank you for parenting well.
My mom had 4 kids. 3 of us were well behaved in public and she said “I would look at those parents with screaming kids in the store and think I am doing something right, my kids don’t do that. So God gave me Janet. I was so judgemental, then I got one who screamed in the store.”
When I was a kid, my parents used to leave me at home with my brother and he would be abusive af. He tied me up ones with zipties. One time, I felt so scared of my brother, I had to run away from home. I’m so used to all this, every time I hear my mother’s voice, I feel terrified, its like PTSD-inducing.
Then my mother gets [suprisedpikachuface.jpg] when I have depression. What did you expect, bitch, you caused this.
There is essentially universal agreement in the field of child psychology that “beating” your child is the wrong approach.
I’ve yet to meet a parent that completely ignores their child in a public venue. In many cultures children are considered to be a part of society / community and so they are given some autonomy to discover the world with their peers. Hyper individualistic Western society is really the odd one out here and Western cultures are the only ones where I’ve seen this take expressed openly. Conclude from that what you will.
I think many use “beating” as a hyperbole, just like if I said my mom would kill me if I did that. I don’t mean she would literally kill me.
Before I go on, could you be more specific on what “western culture” and which “hyper individualistic western society” you are talking about?
Now I’ve traveled quite a bit all over the world. I’ve seen parents of all cultures just straight up ignoring their child’s awful behavior.
And maybe it’s just me seeing these specific tourists the most. The Chineese parents are the biggest offender that I’ve seen in my travels. Their children do whatever they want and they don’t say anything. Just an example from the top of my head, climbing on shelves in a grocery store while the parents just watched.
A few weeks ago my wife and I were getting breakfast at a local bakery. Inside, a dad had decided that it did not matter that his small child was running around, screaming at the top of his lungs. The little gremlin started trying to steal pastries off other people’s tables and dad stiff didn’t do anything until the staff announced loudly that all unattended children would be reported to CPS.
That kid didn’t need a beating, but that dad sure did.
Agreed, that’s unacceptable.
I have many times seen parents ignoring their child’s behaviour in public, pretty much every time I go shopping.
That’s incredible, there may be some regional variation at play here.
I mostly agree except for the initial phase of teaching a kid to listen and control themselves. The part of the brain that forces them to sit still and focus doesn’t really develop imo without some fear. I wouldn’t at all advocate for beating your child, but when they are young a little spank sometimes that isn’t that bad seems scary as hell to them. It’s very effective to get them to learn to listen, to stop running around, that sort of thing. After you get past that point you can talk to them, it’s much easier. Also you have to talk to them afterwards so they know you aren’t being mean, but need them to learn to control themselves and not let their emotions take over all the time. If you do it well, you won’t have to do it but a few times. Not intensity, but as little as possible, just so they know that they can’t get away with it. A kid has almost unlimited energy to fight and yell. It’s not good for you, and it’s not good for them. It’s not really normal for an animal to never have any fear. The brain isn’t supposed to work that way. Yet also it’s not good to abuse them obviously. Some people are kind of bad parents and they will use that as an excuse to avoid doing what they should for their kids, like cooking healthy food and stuff. When kids arent eating well or are trapped inside all day they also get restless. That is not the time to be spanking. The one time where spanking is appropriate is simply to make them realize that they can’t just ignore you and walk on you, and that they have to actually talk with you when you are serious. Talking is the part where they learn. They should just learn fear. This will make them depressive and lazy and resentful and psychotic.
There is not a single ounce of anything scientific provable in what you are saying. You are making shit up to justify hitting your children. That’s really it.
I mostly agree except for the initial phase of teaching a kid to listen and control themselves.
When would that be? It is a learning process for children to control themselves. Some grown ups haven’t mastered it.
The part of the brain that forces them to sit still and focus doesn’t really develop imo without some fear.
This is the core piece of your little theory, right? I challenge you to give me any reputable source, be it from a psychological or pedagogical paper. Just one. To the best of my knowledge, not a single developmental theory backs this up.
I wouldn’t at all advocate for beating your child, but when they are young a little spank sometimes that isn’t that bad seems scary as hell to them.
In other words, you are advocating for beating children. You have no idea how “a little spank” feels for your child. If they are scared about it afterwards it’s a little bit hypocritical to assume that it was not “that bad”.
It’s very effective to get them to learn to listen, to stop running around, that sort of thing. After you get past that point you can talk to them, it’s much easier.
“My child was running around and wouldn’t listen, so i spanked it.” Are you sure there are no other avenues available to get your child to listen?
Also you have to talk to them afterwards so they know you aren’t being mean
You just beat a person that has no way of protectong themselves against somebody much stronger and that they rely on for savty and security. That is mean. Even if you managed to convonce yourself that it’s not. It realy is.
but need them to learn to control themselves and not let their emotions take over all the time.
THEY ARE CHILDREN! Children have to learn to controll emotions. It’s part of growing up. The way to support them is to help them undersuand their emotions and giving them tools to deal with them. Don’t expect it to work imedeatly, it’s a process. Spanking them will teach them to suppress and bottle their emotion, because the single person they rely on for safety is hitting them if they don’t. You are not teaching your children to deal with emotions in a healty manor.
Well I wrote a long response but I couldn’t post it. Maybe I can reply later when I’m not busy with work.
This is an area with a ton of debate and I appreciate your insights. I was on the receiving end of corporal punishment growing up and have chosen not continue that cycle. That doesn’t mean that my child will grow up without consequences, which is I think what most posters are frustrated with here.
According to the World Health Organization:
Evidence shows corporal punishment harms children’s physical and mental health, increases behavioural problems over time, and has no positive outcomes.
All corporal punishment, however mild or light, carries an inbuilt risk of escalation. Studies suggest that parents who used corporal punishment are at heightened risk of perpetrating severe maltreatment
Corporal punishment is linked to a range of negative outcomes for children across countries and cultures, including physical and mental ill-health, impaired cognitive and socio-emotional development, poor educational outcomes, increased aggression and perpetration of violence.
There is also evidence that fear based parenting can lead to anxiety, depression, behavioral problems, and poor self-esteem and sows mistrust and emotional distance between parent and child. I can personally attest to experiencing quite a few of these in relation to corporal punishment.
Now it sounds like you are using fear judiciously and to each their own. But I am determined to find another way, while also making consequences as clear as possible. Age 1 to 3 is difficult for everyone since the child is mobile and exploratory but has very little reasoning capabilities.
I am similar, I grew up with a great deal of that and I barely ever use it for my kids. I actually have a fair bit of trauma and PTSD because my father was an alcoholic and very mean. I never use it anymore I did a little when they were toddlers to get them to do stuff like not pee in the bed, to not leave trash laying around, to not be disrespectful. I had a severe concussion when I was raising them in that phase and I couldn’t handle the yelling because it would trigger massive migraines. I understand most people who use it do ruin their kids with it, and most people who use it are really trashy parents who are arrogant and have bad morality, but really the point in trying to make is that it’s very healthy for a kid to learn how to deal with the emotion of fear and to experience it a bit. This is something the modern world doesn’t realize as much. It helps them to focus. It’s a very narrow window of course. Fear is a strong work and don’t want you to think that I mean your kid should be terrified of you, but they should learn to have respect to feel a bit of consequences to get past that basic part where their higher mind can take control. Their fear needs to be able to calm their mind. I think of it as two pillars that lean against each other creating an arch, your positive and negative emotions. That is a really complicated way of saying, the only thing spanking is good for, is to teach a kid to stop, think, and listen, anything beyond that is abuse imo. You really need to talk to them and explain, not just preach, but back and forth about why something is right or wrong. Tell them about your life and what you have to deal with. Ask them what they think. Ask them how they feel about it. Let them be honest, let them have autonomy where you can. Being safe and respectful is important but beyond that you don’t own your child and your child doesn’t need to be molded by you as a parent. They need to bloom into their own type of flower. That is what actually makes them a highly motivated person.
It works good for me because I completely support my kids autonomy. I want them to have their own style, their own desires, their own preferences, I want them to be themselves. I don’t police their sexuality or what video games or movies they can watch. What clothes they can buy. I do forbid them from some things of course. Hanging out with people who do drugs is one example. I will talk to them about these things in an adult fashion. I will challenge them and ask them questions about why they are doing something, and ask them to tell me how it makes people around them feel, how it makes them feel. It’s not that they should live their life to please other people, not at all, but to be aware of how their actions affect others. To be aware of other people’s pain and limitations. Talk is best, a respectful adult conversation as equals. A conversation as a friend.
You never want to use physical punishment anymore then you have to, because your child will come to see the world through the lens of a victim. They will never really develop an ability to take pride in themselves and stand up for themselves and to chase their own dreams. Survival becomes their only true friend when they learn to hide themselves from the world.
I’d like to thank you again for your insights. It sounds like you exercise a lot of self control and have thought about this meticulously which unfortunately many parents do not. I agree that theres value in children experiencing and understanding fear in a controlled environment.
Ultimately I do want them to experience and better understand fear though I certainly don’t want them to fear me. I’m still hoping I can impart those lessons without threatening their bodily autonomy since it is personally a hard line for me (just from personal experiences and the psychological issues it caused). But time will tell, mine have yet to enter the stage of chaos and irrationality known as toddlerhood haha.
Fair enough, you sound like a good one anyways. Best of luck
I don’t mind rambunctious children, as long as they aren’t hurting anyone, doing ear piercing screaming, or doing something that spreads disease. (Like putting their hands directly into ice cream topping trays instead of using the fucking scoop)
Frequently I see parents be way overly harsh with their kids where I’m at like the parent is terrified of being seen as a bad/lazy parent so they take it out on their kid by way over reacting to a kid doing something disruptive but ultimately pretty harmless.
There are occasional situations where the parent just dumbly stands there doing nothing to stop their kid doing something they really shouldn’t (like that Ice Cream Topping example… which is a thing I recently witnessed). But that’s less common than the former. Might be because I live in a rural conservative hellhole where kids are seen as their parent’s property.
My kids are respectful but they’re kids and I have an autistic 4 year old who is so cute and cuddly but he has the energy of a thousand suns, one time he was skipping around, hopping over cracks in the sidewalk and being happy and laughing loud, we go to a store and hes asking me a million questions and laughing and talking loud while being energetic and hopping. this one old Karen tells me I need to keep him quieter and calm, because he is disturbing others by laughing and being a kid. Without skipping a beat i said “well good thing hes a kid, the world belongs to the kids, not miserable Old people who are gonna die any day now” She had that look that if she were wearing a monocle it would have popped out.
I’m definitely the kind of adult who applies a disproportionately large punishment for small public disruptive behavior from kids I’m watching. It sucks because I know I’m going to far but I’m also so scared of the other adults in the room that I don’t know how else to react. It sucks.
What exactly are you afraid of them doing?
Embarrassing me, which when I say that why should I care if they embarrass me in front of other adults? So long as I’m trying to resolve the situation in a reasonable and mature way, why do I care about what other random adults are thinking.
[S] Is Lemmy better than therapy? [/S]
ITT people taking issue with parenting methods not even being advocated for. If you take your children to public places, of course everyone knows they are children, but they still shouldn’t be pulling stuff off racks, running around screaming and licking the windows, or putting hands on other people or children.
You don’t have to yell at them or beat them or anything else, but if they can’t pull themselves together in public then work on it and consider not bringing them to such places. My mom made us all repeat the rules before we left the car (no running, no putting things in the cart without being asked, keep one hand on the cart while we are moving or something like those) and if we didn’t follow the rules we all went back to the car. Simple as that.
Edit: sometimes you gotta go do something and take the kids. If they’re acting feral at least maybe don’t be the parent who looks like they are totally cool with it and just pretend it isn’t happening?
My mom made us all repeat the rules before we left the car (no running, no putting things in the cart without being asked, keep one hand on the cart while we are moving or something like those)
Wow, I’d forgotten this till just now - my mother did the same. Thanks for the memory jog!
I can remember being 2 or 3 years old and the golden rule then was to always be holding someone’s hand - parent/sibling, etc.
I don’t hit my kids, I barely even yell. They’re the most well-behaved kids I know. Almost as though respecting your kids and spending time with them makes them happier? And maybe kids that feel respected act better? It’s a parenting problem. Youth are the future, we the parents decide what that future looks like.
It’s boundaries, expectations and consistancy in consequences if they break the rules.
Yes, teaching kids to behave is far more effective than beating them into compliance. Sure, they have difficulty grasping it in their early years, but with repetition it eventually sinks in like all of the other things we teach them.
Can we please leave TikTok face on TikTok? I come here specifically to escape the brain rot.
boy are you in the wrong place
I’m talking about a specific level of brain rot mind you, I can accept the lower level that is typical of Lemmy meme communities but not quite corporate social network levels.
brainrot has levels now?
Always had levels
I’m on level 69
A small example of the low-level brain rot I’m looking for in Lemmy meme communities
nice
nice
If you’re a brainrot connoisseur like them you have to differentiate everything.
it has layers, like an onion
you know, not everybody likes onions…
🤣 it’s amazing how you people actually think you are better.
deleted by creator
Than TikTok? Sure we are. It’s an incredibly low bar. Most everything is better than TikTok.
🤣👌👍
Whatever you need to tell yourself.
I’m genuinely curious about affected people - are you able to express yourself without the use of reaction gifs and emojis?
“you people”
It’ll never live up to the first, but I want a sequel so bad .
