The exact chilling effect that they want. Next they’ll do it to trans people.
The white power dickheads in power will be determined to make sure only those who can have citizenship are either white and Christian, or have enormous amounts of money.
I’d be afraid to leave the house documented rn tbh
In most countries you won’t be able to function at all without documents.
yup. even tourists!
Why are you downvoted? This is entirely true. When people visit Japan, for example, they have to carry with documents everywhere they go, and the police do ask for them if you seem to be doing something sketch.
Ok. I’m not from the US and thought this was obvious. Is anyone in favor of undocumented or illegal immigrants? I thought the actual problem was deportations with no trials. It seems obvious no one should support illegal immigration. I think instead you should support allowing more people to inmigrate
The problem is that system changes arbitrarily from one administration to the next, and people who thought they were protected suddenly find themselves unprotected, and then some clown comes along, and just starts throwing out people who thought they were safe for YEARS.
Even Ronald Reagan was able to come up with a fairly reasonable program to deal with the issue at the time, but the current MAGA Nazis literally take pleasure in oppressing people, and undocumented people are easy, low hanging fruit.
While you’re right, there’s still a big difference from legal immigrants who were granted temporary residence and illegal immigrants. The former were allowed into the country for a limited duration of time, but the latter weren’t allowed in the first place.
There’s people that qualified for a process, then that process was suspended/ eligibility is changed etc etc etc.
“Illegal immigrants” basically all start as legal migrants working through the paperwork.
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There have been all sorts of asylum programs, DACA, pathways to citizenship, etc. Trump recently cancelled a program that was protecting 200,000 people from countries like Venezuela. Many people were recruited into the military with the false promise that serving in the military would protect them. Many, many people have legitimately thought they were here under the protection of one program or another, only to have it end, and replaced by a new one.
Now, even people with Green Cards, or even CITIZENSHIP, are being scrutinized. Even Birthright Citizenship is being questioned. Rubio today announced that they will remove passports of AMERICAN citizens who criticize the administration. It seems even actual American citizens aren’t even safe.
Just because the Conservative Propaganda Machine doesn’t tell you about it, and you are too ignorant to look into it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
Stop thinking like a MAGA Nazi Traitor, and start thinking like an American.
There have been all sorts of asylum programs, DACA, pathways to citizenship, etc. Trump recently cancelled a program that was protecting 200,000 people from countries like Venezuela. Many people were recruited into the military with the false promise that serving in the military would protect them. Many, many people have legitimately thought they were here under the protection of one program or another, only to have it end, and replaced by a new one.
Also Afghans who previously were fighting off the Taliban alongside US troops, had to get out and try getting asylum, but now seen as unwanted, to be cuffed by ICE and thrown back to Kabul to be possibly imprisoned or executed.
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It ia more nuanced than that. What makes immigration “illegal” is incredibly arbitrary and inconsistent as a matter of both practice AND law in the USA. Moreover, there are many who believe, as I do, that people have a right to try making a home wherever they are. Where immigration is a problem, it isn’t an immigration problem but rather a collapse of existing broken aspects of the society–the immigration pressure just brings these failings to light.
Complete nonsense. Countries have borders and if you cross into another country without the proper legal channels then you’re an illegal immigrant. It’s simple as that. Trying to circumnavigate immigration laws is very much a problem.
Hear, hear.
Hopefully, Fuhrer Drumpft’s deportation efforts will eventually lead to all the wetbacks and their anchor babies being sent back to their side of the Atlantic.
When Europe sent its people, they did not send their best. They sent people that have lots of problems, and they brought us those problems. They brought drugs. They brought crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.
You know, you could be both against Trump and his moronic politics AND support reasonable immigration laws. Shocking, I know.
99% of the US population are immigrants. Ethnic restaurants on every corner, with their hamburgers and apple pies. The native culture, replaced, erased.
I’m in favor of fuck all borders.
This is such a Lemmy take. Even a child can comprehend why borders are a necessity. The world is an unequal place that’s filled with scarcity and malice. In order to protect your society’s social coherency, economic prosperity, and values, you have to enforce borders
I’ll take the bait.
No, illegal not so much - but the system is fucking broken and it leaves a lot of situations ambiguous. Also the current regime is racial profiling so it doesn’t even matter if you’re a citizen.
I can simultaneously support a better immigration process and system - and also say that illegality is illegality - BUT ALSO say that people should be treated like people and given the circumstances be afforded certain rights and procedures that are civil.
But we’re getting none of that and we need billionaires and corporations and current leadership to fear us.
Spot on
There is no bait. 100% agree
Apparently that “innocent until proven guilty” was also a lie.
I need to stop reading. The fascists can’t allow rights that they can’t even read. The Constitution should have been written below a 6th grade level…
I had someone tell me “well. Innocent until proven guilty only applies for citizens. So proving that is on you”
I had someone say that too. That person is a former cop. But the 14th amendment very intentionally says “person”, not “citizen”.
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Undocumented means illegal. It really rustles my jimmies when people complain about sneaking in when my family had to struggle so much to immigrate legally.
I 100% agree. Lemmy is full of idiots who have no idea what immigration is like outside of their completely out of touch echo chambers. My family had to immigrate from Iraq through Syria to the US. We literally had nothing and we went through so much to get into the country legally. Seeing people try to cut the line in front of the many families like mine who are waiting their by illegally forcing their way in is infuriating as is, but seeing them feel entitled makes me have no sympathy for them.
It’s nice that your family had the money for lawyers and such, and had the background to be accepted.
Plenty of others don’t have those advantages, but they still want to improve their lives, or escape from terrible political or criminal oppression. They are human, too, with families that they love as much as anyone else loves theirs, and they want to improve the lives of their families, and their descendants.
Who cares how they get here? They came seeking a better life. I would rather have more people like that, than elitist pigs who feel entitled to America, and we should all get their permission to live our lives.
You have absolutely no idea how legal immigration to the US works. My family immigrated from Iraq nearly a decade and a half ago. We had NOTHING. We had no property, no savings, no investments, and no money for anything like lawyers or the like. Yet despite our struggles, we kept being patient and did everything necessary to enter the country legally.
If you unironically think that the only way to immigrate to this country is by being extraordinarily rich or by sneaking illegally, then you’re too ignorant for this conversation. This applies doubly so if you can’t even comprehend why illegal immigration is wrong on both a legal and moral level. Not only is it a breach of national security when you have this many people enter the country without documentation or vetting, but it’s also a slap in the face for all the people like my family who went through a lot to get in the country the right way AND to all the people and families out there who are still waiting their turn to get in. Why should they be shafted in favor of people who choose to cut the line, intentionally circumnavigate immigration laws, and still feel entitled to receive the same treatment as legal immigrants?
Immigration is a privilege, always has been and always will be. It is not right and never was. Nobody is entitled to be here or any other country they are not citizens of. My family had the privilege of moving here and so did yours. If people want to move to another country, great, but they have to do it through the legal channels. If they reject you then you have to respect it, and if their system takes a long time then you just have to wait. You can’t just skip immigration laws just because you don’t feel like it. By doing so, you automatically forfeit any sympathy for your immigration case (the only exceptions being genuine asylum cases from either Mexico or Canada). Why should sympathy go to you instead of someone who is going through similar circumstances by immigrated legally or is waiting their turn legally? The answer is it shouldn’t
You don’t have the skills to be offered employment in the US? Why should Americans care about the billions of uneducated poor people? Certainly can’t take care of the whole world
I didn’t say we shouldn’t grant asylum to Ukrainians, that’s legal immigration. In fact, the illegal immigrants sour everyone’s support for asylum seekers. Why should a Mexican crossing the border in peace time be more worthy of living in the US than someone who literally got their home town taken over during war?
Who cares how they get here? They came seeking a better life. I would rather have more people like that, than elitist pigs who feel entitled to America, and we should all get their permission to live our lives.
No one is entitled to go anywhere they want whenever they want, anywhere on earth. Why would or should the United States be any different? The only people entitled to any country are the citizens of that country.
The reason someone would care about this is because society is maintained by rule of law.
Another reason is that we do not live in a post scarcity utopia, and resources are not unlimited.
I know it’s not the same, but do you support China sending immigrants to Tibet and annexing the country? How about the rest of their neighbors and the South China Sea? What about Russia doing the same in Eastern Ukraine and Crimea?
If national autonomy is something to be respected then border laws and immigration laws have to be as well. If you only agree with those things only for non-wealthy countries like the US and EU members, which I suspect might be the case, I would call that biased and hypocritical.
This country doesn’t give two shits about the rule of law anymore, look at our president
Ah yes, if one side is violating the rule of law then we can just throw laws out the window and do whatever we want. Always bring yourself down to their level, that’s how you win.
“But the alcoholic neighbor’s kids down the street are allowed to smoke and skip middle school, so why can’t I mom?”.
I find it really interesting how poor people committing minor crimes is so often talked about in terms of the rule of law while rich people are committing felonies in broad daylight and the government is violating the Constitution on the daily. But sure, persons unauthorized to be here are here, I don’t mind that ICE is detaining legal immigrants and citizens in violent raids. It’s the people overstaying their visas and jumping the border that I’m more concerned about.
I don’t mind that ICE is detaining legal immigrants and citizens in violent raids. It’s the people overstaying their visas and jumping the border that I’m more concerned about.
Both things can be true, this is not a zero sum between open borders and masked ICE agents abducting people.
I sincerely wish all the white collar crime and shit would get more press, especially since wage theft surpasses property crime every year. I won’t stop caring about property crime because there are bigger fish out there.
I heartily disagree with how ICE is currently operating and how legal status is being removed from people to get more “low hanging fruit” to inflate numbers. Obama managed to deport millions of illegal immigrants without the theatrics, or destruction of reputation for the department so we know it can be done.
This doesn’t mean that I cannot or should not also be concerned about illegal immigration or that I should support jumping the border or overstaying visas.
That’s great. In theory I believe people who violate the law should be handled in a safe and sane manner as well. We need to do some serious work updating the laws and procedures regarding immigrating to this country. They are archaic and cruel. I will not be made to fear people who simply come here for a better life, who provide vital labor, and who are less likely to commit violent crime than people who were born here. As long as a law separates families, keeps people in inhumane conditions, or puts literal children before a judge without counsel or so much as an interpreter I am against that law in its entirety.
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Dude, why are you defending the people who have explicitly stated that they hate you, and don’t care if you die?
You are so immersed in in your own bigotry, that you haven’t figured out that America no longer has “the rule of law” any more. You are an immigrant, therefore you are OFFICIALLY an enemy of the government. There is no legal or illegal, documented or undocumented.
Trump’s immigration architect, Stephen “PeeWee Himmler” Miller, has said that he wants to reduce the population of America to 100 million, and he wants them all to look like him (God forbid). That means he intends to get rid of a lot of people one way another, and that includes ANYONE from anywhere else.
It can’t be stressed enough how much these people HATE you. When this all melts down, you will be LUCKY if all that happens to you is you get sent back to your home country.
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Then I guarantee your family didn’t struggle much at all to emigrate to the states legally.
Really doesn’t sound like your family struggled as much as these people do
It really rustles my jimmies
Why ? Who gives a shit, they are people.
Should people born there have their “jimmies rustled” because immgrants we’re allowed in at all ?
The fuck is worng with you ?
Because it’s not fair for people who don’t have a border with the US, like Ukrainians who have more reason to come during a war. We should have a tightly controlled southern border and be letting in asylum seekers
“Got mine, fuck you” mentality.
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Are you a child? Do you actually think a “putting you feet on a couch” argument is sufficient for an issue as complex as immigration?
Let me explain something to you, Skippy: the MAGAs you are defending see YOU and every illegal as exactly the same, and they despise you with every fiber of their being. They don’t care about legal or illegal, they just HATE you, and they want you gone. When they are done rounding up the undocumented, they will be coming after the Green Cards and the Naturalized Citizens, and then they with go after their Anchor Baby Birthright Citizen children. You are on their list.
Bottom line: if you, or your parents, are from somewhere else, they are eventually going to kick you out. The people you are arguing with because they are want to find a way to help these people, want to help you too, but you are too tied up to in your own selfishness to understand that in the eyes of MAGA Nazis, you are just as hated as any undocumented person.
Grow the fuck up.
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ARE YOU?
You aren’t understanding the basic fact that MAGA doesn’t recognize ANY form of immigration, legal or illegal. In the eyes of the MAGA Government, you are OFFICIALLY unwelcome in America, and eventually you will be removed, no matter what your documentation is.
They want to get rid of Constitutionally-protected Birthright Citizenship, do you actually think they will respect whatever you have?
When they put the cuffs on you, and put you on a plane with no due process, and send you to a life sentence in a 3rd world torture prison, you will remember this conversation.
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Are these people putting their feet on the couch? Seems more like they’re the ones building and cleaning the couches.
A country isn’t a house, it’s a place where people put their own houses/make their own individual homes. This analogy immediately falls apart as totally irrelevant bullshit before you even begin to dig into its internal failures of reasoning.
