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My biggest annoyance with man pages are that built-ins are a separate command and that there is no way to print all man pages but the first with the man command. That’s right. There’s no way to print every page for a command, 1 through 7 or whatever, with a flag. I am confidently saying there’s no way to do it.
👀
Hoping someone wants to correct me because I want an alias that prints all pages as one. Would also be nice if it did it for built-ins.
A skill that will be out sourced to AI.
Agreed. I’ve saved so much money by RTFM. As a father of three kids, every dollar saved means a better life for my family.
Car broken? RTFM, bought an ODBII scanner, and fixed it.
Need air conditioning? RTFM and installed my own heat pumps in my house, saving $7000 in labor and markup.
House has an old 60 amp fuse panel? Paid an electrician for the service upgrade, read the NEC, wired and installed all branch circuits and sub panels myself. Passed inspection. Saved $7500.
When you take the time to learn something, you not only get the satisfaction of using your own hands to accomplish something, but you also get to save money.
i could be reading some fucking manuals right now instead of lemmy…
Here
for application in /usr/bin/*; do man $application; doneget going
I think a lot of documentation just fly over my head. I have a masters degree in mathematics, but so many manuals have such deeply ingrained “tribal” language that everyone takes for granted that you know.
If you have a good starting point for a poor linux noob to read manuals, hit me up.
(That being said, I DO read the manuals for appliances and all that. THAT stuff is luckily easy)
Y’all not just out there vibe OSing?
copypasta levels
God yes. I absolutely LOVE a well written manual.
Even if you THINK you know how a thing works, it’s always good to find out the quirks and gotchas, not to mention functionality that might not be obvious at first glance.
In fact, I read the manuals before buying an item or piece of software. They tend to be much more enlightening about a product’s limitations than the marketing material is.
Conversely, it really annoys the fuck out of me when people come on forums and ask a really basic question that’s answered on page 2 of the manual. It shows that someone is incredibly lazy and incapable of basic problem solving. And they have the audacity to get offended when you tell them it’s covered in the manual.
I just learned about “man thing” in terminal a couple days ago. I had no idea they’re kept in that folder.
I’ve been using Linux for about a year now, I have no clue what is even in /usr/bin …you people have manuals?! I needed a manual to find the thing.
You can look at the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard for starters.
About manuals, tryman manin the command line, then something likeman ls.Keep in mind this is FreeBSD, but this is the perfect structure that FreeBSD obeys.
Linux distros fuck it up on a daily basis. App devs interpret it themselves and fuck it up even further.
But if you dont know what etc, usr or bin or local means, it should give you a better understanding. Navigating docs, manuals and commands should be easier.
it is where all the binaries (programs) live (that are not system critical, those would be in sbin). so whenever you execute ls? it is actually /usr/bin/ls and so on and so forth.
then there is the “man” command. basically a manual. you can use it to find out stuff about other commands and such by just typing “man [command]” for example “man ls”
edit: this knowledge has NOT been acquired by RTFM but rather by watching YouTube
Thanks that’s a massive help, I’m usually just searching around GitHub, forums and YouTube for info, literally never used the man command.
you may or may not need to install it first, depending on wether your distro ships it by default. for how to install it you should open your distros wiki in your browser
I mean in general, “read things -> learn” is a good approach to life imo.
Too long and difficult. I’ll let chat gpt tell me instead and read that between adverts on Love Island
Grok, is this true?
I’ll be honest, I’m guilty of using Chat GPT at times for stuff I know barely anything about and know I probably won’t be able to find through research as quickly as I’d like to. I always try the old-fashioned way of using a search engine first, go through reddit and forums and stuff, but sometimes I just need to use AI for a good first pointer
It’s not a terrible idea. ChatGPT is great at summarizing info, especially stuff you’d use manuals for. I make sure to ask it where certain info came from (so I can try to verify) OR having it explain its approach so I get it in the future.
we’re cooked
Lol. That’s exactly what I did in the early 90s. ls /usr/bin, then man at, or whatever it was that came first, and work onwards from there.
Moreso when I installed my own Unix machine (briefly Minix, quickly replaced by Linux) and had to actually learn how to manage it.But then I came from a mix of 8 bit, PC and semi big iron (Tandem) culture where any machine you used would matter of factly come with a litteral wall of binders containing documentation for pretty much anything (which led to the fun regular “documentation day” where you had to manually “patch” the documentation by replacing pages in all the binders with updated ones).
Anyway knowing what the fuck you were doing was pretty much expected. So everyone spent a lot of time perusing documentation.Of course nowadays, to read documentation, you first have to find it, which can be quite a challenge in itself. But at least the manpages are still there.
I used to be a Crew Chief of F-15’s in the U.S. AirForce. We had manual patches too. Luckily, that was Supports job duty.
It’s interesting. There’s a lot of talk about how chatgpt makes people lazy, but honestly I think Google killed the “read the manual” ethos.
Back in the day when you couldn’t just search for everything, you needed enough understanding of the manual to find anything in the index.
So a key part of figuring anything out was reading at least the start of the manual.
Now, fuck it, you just type into Google and try to guess enough context to understand what’s going on.
Agreed, finding a manual should always be the first step to solving a problem imo. Even when searching online, I prefer if I can find the official docs/wiki for a piece of software, then search within that.
Most people don’t even read the error messages. They’re never gonna read a whole manual.
Most people were conditioned by more “user-friendly” systems to ignore the content of error messages because only an expert can make sense of “Error: 0x8000000F Unknown Error”. So they don’t even try, and that’s how they put themselves in a
Yes, do as I say!situation.It’s not even obscure, context dependent errors. I’ve had many professional system administrators not understand what “connection was closed by peer” meant.
Well, to be fair, I’m also not very well versed in the intricacies of connecting with British nobility.
One day I’ll catch that jerk Peer! So rude, always closing my connections!
It’s very much on brand for Peer, at least in the beginning of the play https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peer_Gynt
More than once I had trouble calls about an “error message” that basically said “everything is fine, click ok to proceed”
People who don’t read error messages or do not take the time to see what is going on and just come to the technician/mechanic/doctor saying “it doesn’t work” or some half-assed hypothesis piss me off so bad.
I know that at some point we all do a little of this in our lifes, but some people don’t seem to be able to read one goddamn paragraph ever.
To be fair, techs don’t usually talk to the people who can read, so they’re only ever going to see idiots. There are competent people in the world, they’ll just never need your help, so you don’t see them.
Last time I called tech support, it was for a Dell, and I interrupted their speech to tell them I already looked up the diagnostic. They asked which numbers were lit on the error panel to confirm I had the right diagnostic, and passed me directly to who I needed to talk to. I only called tech support because the cpu socket died and I was putting in a warranty claim, otherwise they would have never even heard from me because I could just install a new motherboard myself.
edit: speeling
At this point, if a student brings in a laptop, explains what doesn’t work, and leaves me to diagnose and fix it, I consider it a good report because it means that the student didn’t get any overconfident ideas. If a student also explains what they were doing when a thing failed, I’m giving them preferential treatment.
Then there are comp-sci students who attempted something. I had one who disassembled their laptop and tore a ribbon cable. I had one who plugged in a random mis-matched RAM stick that turned out to be busted and wondered why Windows kept crashing. I had one who completely fucked up the registry. I had one who wanted to install Ubuntu for dual booting and accidentally wiped the entire SSD.
I would rather spend an hour babysitting their computers than an entire afternoon un-fucking something they thought they could handle. If it were up to me, I would restrict the crap out of their user accounts, but the faculty leaders insist, against empirical evidence, that they’re smart enough.
Are these laptops provided by the faculty?
In any case I do not mind so much the “I should try to fix this on my own first”. If it’s your own device and accept the risks/consequences. But if it is a work/university provided laptop then it makes no sense to attempt to fix it on one’s own.
I can feel your pain trying to fix/repair something you have to figure out what kind of stupid stuff was done to the device.
They’re provided by the faculties at the university’s expense, but the students have admin rights and very little supervision. Two fairly expensive laptops have been stolen by exchange students during the three years I’ve worked there – they simply never bothered to return them, and we only realized it during the yearly inventory check. But fixing the asset tracking system (or implementing one in the first place) is not what I’m getting paid for.
They’ll refuse to attempt to understand the problem then get mad when they get ripped off.
I recently had a coworker who would frequently get an error message while completing their time card. The message was slightly cryptic, something like “invalid cost center”, but no indication (in the message) of which line(s). This happened so often, that when they would call me to complain that they were getting an error, I usually already knew what error they were getting, but for some reason, they could never remember the steps to find & correct it and had to call me every time.
They don’t.
Undoing self-owns like ignoring available information is the basis for 40% of the economy.
What about the fucking manual?
Kama Sutra?
I guess you get good at Unix and refrigerator by reading it, so why not?
Don’t fuck the manual!
It’s Read The Fucking Manual not Fuck The Reading Manual
And because people don’t read error messages, many applications/sites/etc don’t even put them, or if they do they either don’t have any public facing documentation to actually figure out what that code means, or they do and it might as well be nothing
I work in IT. I’ve read so many manuals that I don’t need to read manuals almost ever.
As soon as you learn the design language for stuff, it usually just makes sense where to find stuff and how to fix it. It’s rare that I have a problem that I can’t solve just by looking at it.
If I ever get stuck, guess what? I RTFM. That’s basically my job. I RTFM because end users can’t be arsed to do it themselves. If everyone read the manual, I’d be out of a job.
quick everyone, stop RTFM ! save this man’s job !
Lol. I think it’s more likely that I’ll win the lottery than users RTFM enough for me to worry about my job.
It’s just a funny thought that any of them would try.
In many cases you get hired for having the knowledge and experience instead of just having skills.
Maybe. But in my experience, the most valuable team members are not the ones with the experience, but the ones that are curious and resourceful.
Many linux CLI tools also tend to have similar names for arguments with similar effects.
That also reduces the re-reading.I dread the day the users read the manual
I doubt that day will ever come
