Luke trying to kill Ben bugged me. I don’t mind that Luke wound up a crazy old hermit, all of his mentors did, but the fact that the guy who redeemed Vader decided to murder his nephew after one bad dream annoyed me.
He went into his room, looked at Ben, and realized he had ignited his own saber. There was no attempt at murder or killing. It was a moment where he was caught up in the dark side but he didn’t try to actually kill Ben.
Literally what the meme is talking about though, thanks for so succinctly proving the point lol
So many people who complain about shit that never happened. Y’all are inventing your own boogeymen. There are legit problems with the movies and no one focuses on those. Instead people just make this shit up and go after stuff that was never shown and never occurred. Never seen any other fandom do this.
LOL, it was your phrase dude. Also, there are two versions of the scene; Ben’s retelling, where Luke swung at him, and Luke’s retelling, where he didn’t. I think Luke’s version is probably more accurate, but even then he pulled out his weapon, ignited it, and nearly swung before hesitating. So let’s say, “Luke almost trying to kill Ben,” if you wanna be pedantic about your own words.
This is regarding the post rather than this specific comment.
You’ve constructed a thread nearly guaranteed to have uncivil arguments in the comments. Right or wrong in the details of your argument, you’ve invited yet another moshpit of negativity about Star Wars.
If you don’t like the sequels, it seems obtuse to make a thread arguing with other people who also don’t like them, but are doing it “wrong”. If you do like the sequels, posting positively about them and letting your enjoyment change peoples’ minds is more constructive than trying to debate people into enjoying them.
You are a very prolific poster on lemmy. Your posts get a lot of visibility, and therefore do contribute to setting a tone. If you like Star Wars, why make that tone negative?
If you like Star Wars, why make that tone negative?
Ah yes. The meme that specifically is calling out false complaints and negativity within the community that is directed towards nothing is checks notes is actually negative itself.
Like I said. Thanks for reminding me why I love Star Wars and avoid the fanbase of it like the absolute fucking plague.
Like I said you’ve constructed a thread at people and designed to cause arguments. If you like the sequels, make a post about what you like and convince people by showing them what good you see, rather than telling them what they see is wrong.
This isn’t a comment in the debate style where I’m going to go back and forth with you and snip out tidbits of your post to get the worst reading on them. I’m trying to talk, not debate. I’m not trying to “win” but cutting you down. I’m trying to convince you to contribute to making Star Wars threads about Star Wars rather than about fandom infighting.
To be fair, even assuming Luke’s retelling is accurate, it kinda felt super out of character for him to “unknowingly ignite his lightsaber”. Last time we saw the guy in movie cannon, he had just thrown away his lightsaber while facing down two Sith Lords, so strong was his belief in the good within his father. He was a Jedi Master, trained by Yoda to control his emotions. And I dont think it would be unfair to assume he got better at this since ROTJ.
But instead, he got so bad at self control that he pulled out his weapon on his nephew, over a bad premonition. Then when shit hit the fan, gives up completely and goes full hermit mode. Just didn’t feel like Luke to me. Instead it felt like Rian Johnson just wanted to make a point about hero worship and to subvert expectations.
I agree with your overarching points in the meme. But I’ll always be sad to see, what felt to me like, the character assassination of Luke Skywalker.
That’s literally the point though. Just like how the impentrable, saint-like Jedi Order failed to pay attention to the rot and carelessness in their own organization, so too did the last Jedi forget that he is not perfect, and he stopped working on himself.
The Jedi Order did not rot from within, the Republic rotted around them.
Palpatine changed the game the Sith had played for millennia. Realizing he/they now I guess could not win a direct conflict with the Jedi, he instead played a game they could not play without becoming the Sith in everything but name themselves.
To fight the political corruption of the Republic, what would they have had to do?
Burst into the Senate chambers and arrest every Senator in sight?
Seize control and institute fully automatic gay luxury space communism?
Well, actually, yes, they should have done that, as well as invading Tattoine to end the slave trade, but Lucas would never have written that so what else you got?
Executing Anakin for being both too dangerous to train and leave alone?
It’s just an idiot’s argument to pretend the Jedi losing one battle in their ten thousand year old war against the Sith means the Order was wrong about everything. The kind of mindless prattling that you get when you put a random director in charge of a simple series he still fails to understand.
If it worked for you, more power to you. My ramblings are nothing more than the butthurt musings of an OT fanboy. And maybe I’ll always be blinded by those lenses.
Fwiw, I did understand the point they were trying to make, and I get that it is possible for a person to change over decades, and not always for the better.
But for me, regardless of the point, it was too large a departure from the core of Luke’s character. Character writing involves, well… characterization. Giving your characters arcs, traits, beliefs, values, and growth. Unless you take the time to show and develop the changes in a character, then it can feel like a wholely different person. And (with no time spent developing the change) the Luke we got in TLJ held none of the traits of, or lessons learned by, Luke in the OT.
Luke had ended the OT being defined by his courage, composure, dedication to his friends, and an unyielding belief that the goodness inside a person is able to overcome the darkness. Luke in the ST showed none of those traits. And I think that undermining the core traits of a beloved character, without even spending time developing those changes, just to make a point, was a bad choice.
That’s the point that I tend to agree with actually.
I will absolutely defend the decision to show Luke in that state from a literary perspective. However, it sucks as a fan. It wasn’t a great decision from a we are a media franchise with fans spanning 50 years.
Instead people just make this shit up and go after stuff that was never shown and never occurred. Never seen any other fandom do this.
It also happens with The Last of Us Part II, which points to a probable cause: the same factually wrong criticisms get repeated not from individual engagement with the original media, but rather with professional shit-stirrers on YouTube. Someone rides the algorithm to dunk on something popular, and their terrible takes are recycled forever.
Luke trying to kill Ben bugged me. I don’t mind that Luke wound up a crazy old hermit, all of his mentors did, but the fact that the guy who redeemed Vader decided to murder his nephew after one bad dream annoyed me.
Never happened.
He went into his room, looked at Ben, and realized he had ignited his own saber. There was no attempt at murder or killing. It was a moment where he was caught up in the dark side but he didn’t try to actually kill Ben.
Literally what the meme is talking about though, thanks for so succinctly proving the point lol
So many people who complain about shit that never happened. Y’all are inventing your own boogeymen. There are legit problems with the movies and no one focuses on those. Instead people just make this shit up and go after stuff that was never shown and never occurred. Never seen any other fandom do this.
LOL, it was your phrase dude. Also, there are two versions of the scene; Ben’s retelling, where Luke swung at him, and Luke’s retelling, where he didn’t. I think Luke’s version is probably more accurate, but even then he pulled out his weapon, ignited it, and nearly swung before hesitating. So let’s say, “Luke almost trying to kill Ben,” if you wanna be pedantic about your own words.
Removed by mod
This is regarding the post rather than this specific comment.
You’ve constructed a thread nearly guaranteed to have uncivil arguments in the comments. Right or wrong in the details of your argument, you’ve invited yet another moshpit of negativity about Star Wars.
If you don’t like the sequels, it seems obtuse to make a thread arguing with other people who also don’t like them, but are doing it “wrong”. If you do like the sequels, posting positively about them and letting your enjoyment change peoples’ minds is more constructive than trying to debate people into enjoying them.
You are a very prolific poster on lemmy. Your posts get a lot of visibility, and therefore do contribute to setting a tone. If you like Star Wars, why make that tone negative?
Food for thought.
Ah yes. The meme that specifically is calling out false complaints and negativity within the community that is directed towards nothing is checks notes is actually negative itself.
Like I said. Thanks for reminding me why I love Star Wars and avoid the fanbase of it like the absolute fucking plague.
Like I said you’ve constructed a thread at people and designed to cause arguments. If you like the sequels, make a post about what you like and convince people by showing them what good you see, rather than telling them what they see is wrong.
This isn’t a comment in the debate style where I’m going to go back and forth with you and snip out tidbits of your post to get the worst reading on them. I’m trying to talk, not debate. I’m not trying to “win” but cutting you down. I’m trying to convince you to contribute to making Star Wars threads about Star Wars rather than about fandom infighting.
Chew on it a bit.
To be fair, even assuming Luke’s retelling is accurate, it kinda felt super out of character for him to “unknowingly ignite his lightsaber”. Last time we saw the guy in movie cannon, he had just thrown away his lightsaber while facing down two Sith Lords, so strong was his belief in the good within his father. He was a Jedi Master, trained by Yoda to control his emotions. And I dont think it would be unfair to assume he got better at this since ROTJ.
But instead, he got so bad at self control that he pulled out his weapon on his nephew, over a bad premonition. Then when shit hit the fan, gives up completely and goes full hermit mode. Just didn’t feel like Luke to me. Instead it felt like Rian Johnson just wanted to make a point about hero worship and to subvert expectations.
I agree with your overarching points in the meme. But I’ll always be sad to see, what felt to me like, the character assassination of Luke Skywalker.
That’s literally the point though. Just like how the impentrable, saint-like Jedi Order failed to pay attention to the rot and carelessness in their own organization, so too did the last Jedi forget that he is not perfect, and he stopped working on himself.
The Jedi Order did not rot from within, the Republic rotted around them.
Palpatine changed the game the Sith had played for millennia. Realizing he/they now I guess could not win a direct conflict with the Jedi, he instead played a game they could not play without becoming the Sith in everything but name themselves.
To fight the political corruption of the Republic, what would they have had to do?
Burst into the Senate chambers and arrest every Senator in sight?
Seize control and institute fully automatic gay luxury space communism?
Well, actually, yes, they should have done that, as well as invading Tattoine to end the slave trade, but Lucas would never have written that so what else you got?
Executing Anakin for being both too dangerous to train and leave alone?
It’s just an idiot’s argument to pretend the Jedi losing one battle in their ten thousand year old war against the Sith means the Order was wrong about everything. The kind of mindless prattling that you get when you put a random director in charge of a simple series he still fails to understand.
If it worked for you, more power to you. My ramblings are nothing more than the butthurt musings of an OT fanboy. And maybe I’ll always be blinded by those lenses.
Fwiw, I did understand the point they were trying to make, and I get that it is possible for a person to change over decades, and not always for the better.
But for me, regardless of the point, it was too large a departure from the core of Luke’s character. Character writing involves, well… characterization. Giving your characters arcs, traits, beliefs, values, and growth. Unless you take the time to show and develop the changes in a character, then it can feel like a wholely different person. And (with no time spent developing the change) the Luke we got in TLJ held none of the traits of, or lessons learned by, Luke in the OT.
Luke had ended the OT being defined by his courage, composure, dedication to his friends, and an unyielding belief that the goodness inside a person is able to overcome the darkness. Luke in the ST showed none of those traits. And I think that undermining the core traits of a beloved character, without even spending time developing those changes, just to make a point, was a bad choice.
That’s the point that I tend to agree with actually.
I will absolutely defend the decision to show Luke in that state from a literary perspective. However, it sucks as a fan. It wasn’t a great decision from a we are a media franchise with fans spanning 50 years.
It also happens with The Last of Us Part II, which points to a probable cause: the same factually wrong criticisms get repeated not from individual engagement with the original media, but rather with professional shit-stirrers on YouTube. Someone rides the algorithm to dunk on something popular, and their terrible takes are recycled forever.