Sees everyone shouting about needing a stronger democracy, all the research about wealth inequality causing problems, and all the economic theory on how to improve people’s lives.
“We’ve tried nothing and I’m out of ideas. Let’s go back to Kings. That was cool. There were swords!”
Even a tepid, liberal political system like Social Democracy would be a step in the right direction. As the post correctly states, massive wealth inequality is at the core of many societal problems. If we simply taxed the rich to make wealth more equally distributed, limiting the effects of labor exploitation somewhat, that would be a “relevant working alternative” as long as you concede that the current system “works” - which it only does by exploiting labor in the global south.
Democracy is pretty good, Dictatorships themselves suck. That’s why Democracy should be extended to the work place, and shouldn’t be mini-dictatorships.
That’s why Democracy should be extended to the work place, and shouldn’t be mini-dictatorships.
You could do that. You could even distribute ownership, profits and risk among the workers. Literally nothing prevents someone from starting a business using that model. But then being paid a share of profits instead of a fixed salary is…probably not desirable for most people.
You’re making a few assumptions, which unfortunately are wrong.
There is downward pressure against worker co-operatives. Number 1, Capitalist firms are far more willing to brutally exploit Workers to maintain competitive advantage. Number 2, there is little infrastructure in place to assist with starting worker Co-operatives, unlike Capitalist firms.
You can absolutely pay a fixed salary in a worker co-operative, and place any excess into funds for expansion or to pay steady salaries when in economic troubles.
Worker Co-operatives are desirable for workers, that’s why worker co-operatives are far more stable, last longer, and have higher job satisfaction than Capitalist firms.
All of that to say that Worker co-operatives are only one form of Socialism, and they still knock the socks off of Capitalist owned and run firms, because it turns out, dictatorship is unnecessary and unpopular.
Dictatorships suck because there’s no accountability. A just dictator that can’t be bribed is still an unjust hierarchy that removes freedom and choice.
Democratically accountable Capitalism isn’t Capitalism. If production is democratically owned and controlled, it’s Socialism.
Why do you believe its impossible for Workers to democratically own and control the Means of Production? Worker Co-ops already exist as proof of possibility, same with Lemmy and other FOSS software.
You would not be the losing one in Socialism unless you’re a landlord or a business owner, in which case I’m sorry but humanity shouldn’t hold back progression for your personal sake.
No, you would not lose in Socialism unless you are a landlord or business owner. If you’re an engineer, doctor, lawyer, or other skilled worker that makes good money, you would be better off in Socialism. Socialism is about worker ownership of the Means of Production. Again, unless you’re a landlord or a business owner, you stand to gain. It isn’t the bottom 50% against the top 50%, but closer to the bottom 99% against the top 1%.
If you’re asking about leftist strategy, Unionization is a big one, see Syndicalism. Anarchists and Marxists, reformers and revolutionary Socialists, there are plenty of strategies for enacting meaningful change.
“people will always be greedy” is such a lazy response. It’s the same as saying “there’s no point in trying to prevent violence and murder, because people will always be violent and murder others”.
And not all societies worked the way our society does.
For a metaphor, you cannot look at people growing up in a cheating and lying home and conclude that it’s human nature to lie and cheat all the time. We all grew up in capitalism, but there existed societies where things like greed wasn’t rewarded, but shunned, and they were different.
And your last paragraph, well, if change can never happen, why even bother voting? You’re just one vote in a million? Why form a union? Why do anything? Why do activism? It’s too pessimistic and not how the world works. Movements are very much possible.
As you mentioned in another comment, you’re at least somewhat well off (I don’t fault you for that), which means you very likely have stable housing, food, access to healthcare, etc., great. But that means you aren’t experiencing the same pressure that the global average person is. I.e. there’s still a few necks between yours and the boot.
So it’s easy for you to say this, cry “there’s nothing that can be done”, to retain your conscience while living out your life in relative comfort.
I don’t mean to vilify you. Everyone does this to some degree. Life is short and scary, and it’s no single one of our faults for the current situation.
But please understand that rolling over on your back in apathy is exactly what those ten men want. And spreading it through social media even more so.
The world looked completely different 100 years ago, and 100 years before that, and that rate of change has not slowed. There is no reason to think it won’t be completely different 100 years from now, and what that will look like entirely depends on what we do now.
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Sees everyone shouting about needing a stronger democracy, all the research about wealth inequality causing problems, and all the economic theory on how to improve people’s lives.
“We’ve tried nothing and I’m out of ideas. Let’s go back to Kings. That was cool. There were swords!”
Even a tepid, liberal political system like Social Democracy would be a step in the right direction. As the post correctly states, massive wealth inequality is at the core of many societal problems. If we simply taxed the rich to make wealth more equally distributed, limiting the effects of labor exploitation somewhat, that would be a “relevant working alternative” as long as you concede that the current system “works” - which it only does by exploiting labor in the global south.
deleted by creator
Democracy is pretty good, Dictatorships themselves suck. That’s why Democracy should be extended to the work place, and shouldn’t be mini-dictatorships.
You could do that. You could even distribute ownership, profits and risk among the workers. Literally nothing prevents someone from starting a business using that model. But then being paid a share of profits instead of a fixed salary is…probably not desirable for most people.
You’re making a few assumptions, which unfortunately are wrong.
There is downward pressure against worker co-operatives. Number 1, Capitalist firms are far more willing to brutally exploit Workers to maintain competitive advantage. Number 2, there is little infrastructure in place to assist with starting worker Co-operatives, unlike Capitalist firms.
You can absolutely pay a fixed salary in a worker co-operative, and place any excess into funds for expansion or to pay steady salaries when in economic troubles.
Worker Co-operatives are desirable for workers, that’s why worker co-operatives are far more stable, last longer, and have higher job satisfaction than Capitalist firms.
All of that to say that Worker co-operatives are only one form of Socialism, and they still knock the socks off of Capitalist owned and run firms, because it turns out, dictatorship is unnecessary and unpopular.
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Dictatorships suck because there’s no accountability. A just dictator that can’t be bribed is still an unjust hierarchy that removes freedom and choice.
Democratically accountable Capitalism isn’t Capitalism. If production is democratically owned and controlled, it’s Socialism.
deleted by creator
Why do you believe its impossible for Workers to democratically own and control the Means of Production? Worker Co-ops already exist as proof of possibility, same with Lemmy and other FOSS software.
You would not be the losing one in Socialism unless you’re a landlord or a business owner, in which case I’m sorry but humanity shouldn’t hold back progression for your personal sake.
deleted by creator
No, you would not lose in Socialism unless you are a landlord or business owner. If you’re an engineer, doctor, lawyer, or other skilled worker that makes good money, you would be better off in Socialism. Socialism is about worker ownership of the Means of Production. Again, unless you’re a landlord or a business owner, you stand to gain. It isn’t the bottom 50% against the top 50%, but closer to the bottom 99% against the top 1%.
If you’re asking about leftist strategy, Unionization is a big one, see Syndicalism. Anarchists and Marxists, reformers and revolutionary Socialists, there are plenty of strategies for enacting meaningful change.
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Maybe not reward greed for a start
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“people will always be greedy” is such a lazy response. It’s the same as saying “there’s no point in trying to prevent violence and murder, because people will always be violent and murder others”.
And not all societies worked the way our society does.
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The system itself heavily rewards greed.
For a metaphor, you cannot look at people growing up in a cheating and lying home and conclude that it’s human nature to lie and cheat all the time. We all grew up in capitalism, but there existed societies where things like greed wasn’t rewarded, but shunned, and they were different.
And your last paragraph, well, if change can never happen, why even bother voting? You’re just one vote in a million? Why form a union? Why do anything? Why do activism? It’s too pessimistic and not how the world works. Movements are very much possible.
deleted by creator
As you mentioned in another comment, you’re at least somewhat well off (I don’t fault you for that), which means you very likely have stable housing, food, access to healthcare, etc., great. But that means you aren’t experiencing the same pressure that the global average person is. I.e. there’s still a few necks between yours and the boot.
So it’s easy for you to say this, cry “there’s nothing that can be done”, to retain your conscience while living out your life in relative comfort.
I don’t mean to vilify you. Everyone does this to some degree. Life is short and scary, and it’s no single one of our faults for the current situation.
But please understand that rolling over on your back in apathy is exactly what those ten men want. And spreading it through social media even more so.
The world looked completely different 100 years ago, and 100 years before that, and that rate of change has not slowed. There is no reason to think it won’t be completely different 100 years from now, and what that will look like entirely depends on what we do now.