Just stop obsessing over that choice. Criticism of Biden isn’t a way to demotivate voter turnout, it’s a way of activating political engagement outside of electoral politics.
It’s a shit choice and everyone knows it - so why should we be beating each other over the head with it when there are better ways to engage with the issues? Going around the internet whipping leftists into line to support the least-fascist option is a waste of everyone’s time, and it has the side-effect of minimizing leftist stances. That there aren’t alternative candidates that would handle the Israeli occupation differently shouldn’t dissuade us from being loud about critiquing his handling of it.
Sure, you have fun with the idea that engaging in a circle-jerk about how Biden is literally a genocidaire definitely doesn’t affect the electoral realities on the ground, and that definitely numerous leftists on here aren’t already loudly declaring that now they’ll NEVER vote for GENOCIDE JOE. Obviously pretending that this isn’t a moderation of previous US support for Israel and that non-support of Israel is a non-starter due to over 70% of the voting population being in favor of further support to Israel definitely won’t affect turnout.
I don’t know if you’ll be wringing your hands comfortably in front of your television set in a second Trump presidency or if you’ll be in the camps with the rest of us, but I doubt you’ll have any self-reflection on this stance in either case.
I get that you’re frustrated, possibly fearful, of Biden’s low approval and the risk of a Trump presidency. There are plenty of ways for Biden to win more progressives over, he just has to decide that preventing a trump presidency is more important than maintaining the status quo.
The only person responsible for that possibility is him.
I get that you’re frustrated, possibly fearful, of Biden’s low approval and the risk of a Trump presidency. There are plenty of ways for Biden to win more progressives over, he just has to decide that preventing a trump presidency is more important than maintaining the status quo.
Every act of winning progressives over also has a cost of alienating non-progressives which, despite the repeated claims of some commentators, are not actually anywhere close to a majority of the Democratic Party, much less the country as a whole. The idea that all Biden has to do to win the election is become super-progressive ignores that the country itself is not super-fucking progressive. Would I love it if it was? Sure. But we work with reality how it is, not how we fucking wish it to be.
First poll I found says 65% rather than over 70%, but the overall point remains
That poll was conducted back in October. A hell of a lot has changed since then, hasn’t it?
Every act of winning progressives over also has a cost of alienating non-progressives which, despite the repeated claims of some commentators, are not actually anywhere close to a majority of the Democratic Party, much less the country as a whole. The idea that all Biden has to do to win the election is become super-progressive ignores that the country itself is not super-fucking progressive. Would I love it if it was? Sure. But we work with reality how it is, not how we fucking wish it to be.
It isn’t the responsibility of progressives to build a winning coalition for Biden, that’s his job. Whining about how progressives dislike him and may not vote for him isn’t going to change their minds, if anything it will entrench their view that the Democratic party stands against them.
The far-right and far-left resurgence hasn’t happened in a vacuum, it happened because the last 50 years of austerity has left the majority of American’s behind. If you’re looking to the last 50 years of politics as the basis to assert ‘progressive candidates can’t win’, then you’re ignoring the political landscape as it exists right now.
That poll was conducted back in October. A hell of a lot has changed since then, hasn’t it?
… no?
It isn’t the responsibility of progressives to build a winning coalition for Biden, that’s his job.
Thanks for ignoring the entire point which is that further moves towards progressives further endanger Biden, the only viable current candidate against Trump. But hey, I’m sure your purity politics will be great comfort when LGBT people are being herded into camps, and you can say, “Well, I didn’t want to vote for GENOCIDE JOE!”
Lol, well… Yes? Do you really not think public sentiment has shifted since the October attack? The hospital bombings? The refugee bombings? The Palestinian death tolls? I guess you’re free to disagree, but I think i’d trust my more recent poll over the one that happened immediately following the 10/6 attack and before the Israeli response.
I’m sure your purity politics will be great comfort when LGBT people are being herded into camps, and you can say, “Well, I didn’t want to vote for GENOCIDE JOE!”
On the contrary, i’ll be railing against moderates like you who insisted on another milquetoast neoliberal dinosaur as the ONLY REALISTIC CANDIDATE when shit goes down, especially since I’ll have begrudgingly voted for him regardless after screaming for a more effective candidate for the last 16 years.
Honestly, this has the same vibe as Elon’s “Earth will know twitter was killed by woke advertisers pulling support”. Nah bud, Biden will lose because he is the wrong fucking candidate. But hey, at least you can blame progressives for their light criticisms of Biden, amiright?
Lol, well… Yes? Do you really not think public sentiment has shifted since the October attack? The hospital bombings? The refugee bombings? The Palestinian death tolls? I guess you’re free to disagree, but I think i’d trust my more recent poll over the one that happened immediately following the 10/6 attack and before the Israeli response.
Your more recent poll is about approval of Biden’s response, not whether aid to Israel is acceptable, not enough, or too much. You do realize that right-wingers are going to disapprove of Biden’s-oh, why do I bother? You’ll read whatever you want into it.
But I suppose I shouldn’t expect anything more from someone who thinks that purity politics and magical thinking is preferable to not seeing minorities in camps. But hey, at least you’ll keep claiming that it was actually the neoliberals’ fault for… not convincing the overwhelming majority of America to suddenly become leftists that are acceptable to your standards.
But I suppose I shouldn’t expect anything more from someone who thinks that purity politics and magical thinking is preferable to not seeing minorities in camps
I think policy actions that directly address the disenfranchisement of the working class is the most expedient way to prevent this. Hand waiving about “progressive policies alienating moderates” intentionally ignores how we got to the place to begin with, and all but guarantees a fascistic movement in the US.
Moderates like you have created this problem, and blaming it on the people advocating to fix the underlying issue is yet another way you’re managing to drive people further into radicalism. But you do you bud.
Just stop obsessing over that choice. Criticism of Biden isn’t a way to demotivate voter turnout, it’s a way of activating political engagement outside of electoral politics.
It’s a shit choice and everyone knows it - so why should we be beating each other over the head with it when there are better ways to engage with the issues? Going around the internet whipping leftists into line to support the least-fascist option is a waste of everyone’s time, and it has the side-effect of minimizing leftist stances. That there aren’t alternative candidates that would handle the Israeli occupation differently shouldn’t dissuade us from being loud about critiquing his handling of it.
Sure, you have fun with the idea that engaging in a circle-jerk about how Biden is literally a genocidaire definitely doesn’t affect the electoral realities on the ground, and that definitely numerous leftists on here aren’t already loudly declaring that now they’ll NEVER vote for GENOCIDE JOE. Obviously pretending that this isn’t a moderation of previous US support for Israel and that non-support of Israel is a non-starter due to over 70% of the voting population being in favor of further support to Israel definitely won’t affect turnout.
I don’t know if you’ll be wringing your hands comfortably in front of your television set in a second Trump presidency or if you’ll be in the camps with the rest of us, but I doubt you’ll have any self-reflection on this stance in either case.
Where are you getting this figure, exactly? Last I heard, only 33% of registered voters approve of Biden’s response to this issue.
I get that you’re frustrated, possibly fearful, of Biden’s low approval and the risk of a Trump presidency. There are plenty of ways for Biden to win more progressives over, he just has to decide that preventing a trump presidency is more important than maintaining the status quo.
The only person responsible for that possibility is him.
50% of the population disapproves of Biden’s response to any issue due to him being Biden. First poll I found says 65% rather than over 70%, but the overall point remains
Every act of winning progressives over also has a cost of alienating non-progressives which, despite the repeated claims of some commentators, are not actually anywhere close to a majority of the Democratic Party, much less the country as a whole. The idea that all Biden has to do to win the election is become super-progressive ignores that the country itself is not super-fucking progressive. Would I love it if it was? Sure. But we work with reality how it is, not how we fucking wish it to be.
That poll was conducted back in October. A hell of a lot has changed since then, hasn’t it?
It isn’t the responsibility of progressives to build a winning coalition for Biden, that’s his job. Whining about how progressives dislike him and may not vote for him isn’t going to change their minds, if anything it will entrench their view that the Democratic party stands against them.
The far-right and far-left resurgence hasn’t happened in a vacuum, it happened because the last 50 years of austerity has left the majority of American’s behind. If you’re looking to the last 50 years of politics as the basis to assert ‘progressive candidates can’t win’, then you’re ignoring the political landscape as it exists right now.
… no?
Thanks for ignoring the entire point which is that further moves towards progressives further endanger Biden, the only viable current candidate against Trump. But hey, I’m sure your purity politics will be great comfort when LGBT people are being herded into camps, and you can say, “Well, I didn’t want to vote for GENOCIDE JOE!”
Lol, well… Yes? Do you really not think public sentiment has shifted since the October attack? The hospital bombings? The refugee bombings? The Palestinian death tolls? I guess you’re free to disagree, but I think i’d trust my more recent poll over the one that happened immediately following the 10/6 attack and before the Israeli response.
On the contrary, i’ll be railing against moderates like you who insisted on another milquetoast neoliberal dinosaur as the ONLY REALISTIC CANDIDATE when shit goes down, especially since I’ll have begrudgingly voted for him regardless after screaming for a more effective candidate for the last 16 years.
Honestly, this has the same vibe as Elon’s “Earth will know twitter was killed by woke advertisers pulling support”. Nah bud, Biden will lose because he is the wrong fucking candidate. But hey, at least you can blame progressives for their light criticisms of Biden, amiright?
Your more recent poll is about approval of Biden’s response, not whether aid to Israel is acceptable, not enough, or too much. You do realize that right-wingers are going to disapprove of Biden’s-oh, why do I bother? You’ll read whatever you want into it.
But I suppose I shouldn’t expect anything more from someone who thinks that purity politics and magical thinking is preferable to not seeing minorities in camps. But hey, at least you’ll keep claiming that it was actually the neoliberals’ fault for… not convincing the overwhelming majority of America to suddenly become leftists that are acceptable to your standards.
I think policy actions that directly address the disenfranchisement of the working class is the most expedient way to prevent this. Hand waiving about “progressive policies alienating moderates” intentionally ignores how we got to the place to begin with, and all but guarantees a fascistic movement in the US.
Moderates like you have created this problem, and blaming it on the people advocating to fix the underlying issue is yet another way you’re managing to drive people further into radicalism. But you do you bud.