Is data property? Sure, ideas, concepts, photos, etc can be trademarked/copy-write protected and have some degree of ownership, but I’m talking at a much lower level here… Is the particular configuration of memory on your phone a piece of property? If no, then no property was destroyed by wiping the phone. All of the storage and memory is still intact and functional. If yes, then we must look further…is the position (not the switch itself) of a binary switch (like a light switch) a physical thing that you can own? Would you consider it destroyed if it was switched away from it’s original position?
I don’t think you could charge him with destroying property… Destruction of evidence maybe, but the property is undamaged and functioning normally.
Other arguments. The cop actually destroyed the data. Or, defendant claims he did not know the cops would use the pin to wipe the phone, and that they just wanted to know what the PIN was.
I wouldn’t say there is enough evidence here to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this guy destroyed any property in response to a search. He didn’t destroy anything, what was destroyed is arguably not property, and he may not be aware that his duress pin was going to be used on the device in the first place.
If yes, then we must look further…is the position (not the switch itself) of a binary switch (like a light switch) a physical thing that you can own? Would you consider it destroyed if it was switched away from it’s original position?
the light switch is not something intended to store data, but the memory in your phone is. wiping the data destroys all the photos, media, logins, configuration on your phone, making them permanently and irreversibly inaccessible. and all of that is my property.
Light switches can store data. You can have open equal 1, and closed equal 0. Tada! You’re storing data on a light switch. All you need to do, is allow an electrical signal to control the position of the switch, and you essentially have 1bit of data storage right there.
anything can store data in some abstract sense, I don’t think that is a valid argument here
You know that hard drives don’t literally store the number 1 or 0 right? We arbitrarily assign a value to a specific configuration of a material or circuit.
You know that hard drives don’t literally store the number 1 or 0 right? We arbitrarily assign a value to a specific configuration of a material or circuit.
that’s besides the point. hard drives are very commonly used for large scale data storage. that is its intended use, and people are storing legible data on it, in practice. light switches? who the hack stores data on light switches, bit by bit?
this discussion is not productive. you have already decided that destroying user data is a nothingburger.
It’s not besides the point. It exactly is the point. Functionally, computer storage is a stable binary state circuit, just like a light switch. When we wire billions of them together and automate the switching process, and throw in a few layers of abstraction, you get functional data. Changing the state of those switches does not destroy them, therefore changing the state of those switches is not destruction of property, unless by extension, flipping a light switch counts as destruction of property. It may be destruction of evidence, as the state of that memory or the position of the switch could be considered evidence, but it is a far cry from actual destruction of property.
who the hack stores data on light switches, bit by bit?
This is exactly how early computer programs were stored/written.
you have already decided that destroying user data is a nothingburger.
Correction: I am arguing that the alteration of computer storage is not destruction of property as written in the law that prevents you from destroying property to in response to or as the result of a lawful search.
It’s can store and two data values people assign to it. In this case, power on, or power off.
We’re using binary switches (literal just different types of light switches) to store data all the time. That’s the whole fucking point. You’re having trouble differentiating between the two because the data they store the same fucking thing just at different scales.
So far, every time I’ve been outraged about Buckees, they’ve sued a small business that’s trying to file their own trademark. And while I don’t like it one bit, trademark law is more or less designed for that exact purpose. Logos don’t have to be close, they could just vaguely remind you of another established trademark. The barrier to winning is extremely low, and the fault lies with the shitty, overly vague trademark law that attempts to make trademark owners fight any possible contender.
I don’t know if these guys were or were not trying to file a trademark, but I do know the three I looked at so far were begridgingly acceptable by trademark standards.
The video I provided covers this. There are plenty of statutes and precedents. There’s a tiny little bit of unsettled case law to be decided here that will, at best, lower his sentence a bit.
I strongly suspect an imminent plea bargain, unless they want to use him as an example.
Here is my problem with this interpretation…
Is data property? Sure, ideas, concepts, photos, etc can be trademarked/copy-write protected and have some degree of ownership, but I’m talking at a much lower level here… Is the particular configuration of memory on your phone a piece of property? If no, then no property was destroyed by wiping the phone. All of the storage and memory is still intact and functional. If yes, then we must look further…is the position (not the switch itself) of a binary switch (like a light switch) a physical thing that you can own? Would you consider it destroyed if it was switched away from it’s original position?
I don’t think you could charge him with destroying property… Destruction of evidence maybe, but the property is undamaged and functioning normally.
Other arguments. The cop actually destroyed the data. Or, defendant claims he did not know the cops would use the pin to wipe the phone, and that they just wanted to know what the PIN was.
I wouldn’t say there is enough evidence here to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this guy destroyed any property in response to a search. He didn’t destroy anything, what was destroyed is arguably not property, and he may not be aware that his duress pin was going to be used on the device in the first place.
the light switch is not something intended to store data, but the memory in your phone is. wiping the data destroys all the photos, media, logins, configuration on your phone, making them permanently and irreversibly inaccessible. and all of that is my property.
Light switches can store data. You can have open equal 1, and closed equal 0. Tada! You’re storing data on a light switch. All you need to do, is allow an electrical signal to control the position of the switch, and you essentially have 1bit of data storage right there.
anything can store data in some abstract sense, I don’t think that is a valid argument here
besides, most light switches cannot do that
You know that hard drives don’t literally store the number 1 or 0 right? We arbitrarily assign a value to a specific configuration of a material or circuit.
Most hunks of silicon can’t do that either.
that’s besides the point. hard drives are very commonly used for large scale data storage. that is its intended use, and people are storing legible data on it, in practice. light switches? who the hack stores data on light switches, bit by bit?
this discussion is not productive. you have already decided that destroying user data is a nothingburger.
It’s not besides the point. It exactly is the point. Functionally, computer storage is a stable binary state circuit, just like a light switch. When we wire billions of them together and automate the switching process, and throw in a few layers of abstraction, you get functional data. Changing the state of those switches does not destroy them, therefore changing the state of those switches is not destruction of property, unless by extension, flipping a light switch counts as destruction of property. It may be destruction of evidence, as the state of that memory or the position of the switch could be considered evidence, but it is a far cry from actual destruction of property.
This is exactly how early computer programs were stored/written.
Correction: I am arguing that the alteration of computer storage is not destruction of property as written in the law that prevents you from destroying property to in response to or as the result of a lawful search.
good. get back to me once people are using light switches to store data.
This uses 7 services to store a base-10 numeric value on a 7 segment display.
https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/blog/7-segment-display-tutorial.html
Here is a picture of a power switch for a power strip
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/Socket_5.jpg/500px-Socket_5.jpg
It’s can store and two data values people assign to it. In this case, power on, or power off.
We’re using binary switches (literal just different types of light switches) to store data all the time. That’s the whole fucking point. You’re having trouble differentiating between the two because the data they store the same fucking thing just at different scales.
None of that would hold up in court.
Bucees just successfully argued in court that a beaver and an alligator are visually indistinguishable to the common man…
So far, every time I’ve been outraged about Buckees, they’ve sued a small business that’s trying to file their own trademark. And while I don’t like it one bit, trademark law is more or less designed for that exact purpose. Logos don’t have to be close, they could just vaguely remind you of another established trademark. The barrier to winning is extremely low, and the fault lies with the shitty, overly vague trademark law that attempts to make trademark owners fight any possible contender.
I don’t know if these guys were or were not trying to file a trademark, but I do know the three I looked at so far were begridgingly acceptable by trademark standards.
The video I provided covers this. There are plenty of statutes and precedents. There’s a tiny little bit of unsettled case law to be decided here that will, at best, lower his sentence a bit.
I strongly suspect an imminent plea bargain, unless they want to use him as an example.