EDIT: For some context, I recently gave podman another go. I have a few services on my homelab server set up in docker containers, so I tried migrating to podman.

After the second major bug (open issue on github) I encountered looked like it would require completely dropping using compose files to work around, I gave up and went back to docker.

I like the idea of podman, but it’s just not stable. I’ll try again in a year or so.

As a bonus, docker’s CLI is significantly nicer.

  • unitedwithme@lemmy.today
    1722·
    3 days ago

    I choose Podman bc it’s open source and that’s kind of the reason for using everything as a container bc those are often also open source. Fuck docker

    • Voytrekk@sopuli.xyz
      65·
      3 days ago

      It also can integrate with Systemd via Quadlets. Let’s you control containers as a sytemd service. I personally use them for my home server and have been happy with it.

      • ArchAengelus@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        242·
        3 days ago

        The learning curve for quadlets is quite harsh in my opinion. I started with podman compose 3 years ago for my homelab, because it allowed user containers.

        I tried to migrate to quadlets unsuccessfully, several times over the years. it was only recently that my self-hosted Qwen was capable enough to figure out where I was messing up and automate the process a bit.

        I probably wasn’t sufficiently motivated. It felt like podman compose is basically docker compose, but quadlets are a quite a bit different in form and function, so I was never able to grok them:

        • Voytrekk@sopuli.xyz
          221·
          3 days ago

          There is a tool named Podlet that can help translate to quadlets. I was able to fully translate my unraid and compose setups to quadlets.

          • hirihit640@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            2·
            3 days ago

            I remember trying it and my compose files blew up to multiple Quadlet files with a much larger total size (lines of code). I find that compose is just more concise and structured compared to Quadlets.

            • Voytrekk@sopuli.xyz
              5·
              3 days ago

              It does have a larger file size compared to compose, sure. The big advantage of quadlets is that systemd will handle things in the event of a failure. It makes it a great option for production environments where you will not need to update your config files as much. It also allows you to have more control over when each application starts, if they rely on a specific disk mount or service running on the system. I’m sure someone else can provide more benefits who use them in a production environment.

              • hirihit640@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
                1·
                3 days ago

                Fair enough. My requirements are simply: start all services when the machine has finished booting. And I can’t remember the last time my system failed. Most that happened was a power outage, and Quadlets wouldn’t have helped there either.

                So in my case I much prefer simple and easy-to-read configs, over the complexity of integrating with systemd.

                • Voytrekk@sopuli.xyz
                  1·
                  2 days ago

                  Docker compose definitely works for most people, so I would feel pressured to swap.

                  There is one instance where Quadlets would have fixed an issue we ran into at work. We had a Kafka instance whose container died and went away because we ran out of space on the server. Compose doesn’t recreate containers on failure, so I was called in to fix the issue. Quadlets treats containers as disposable, so it would have recreated it as soon as it went away. The root of the issue was a bad logging config that we fixed on the next business day.

                  • hirihit640@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
                    1·
                    2 days ago

                    Compose doesn’t recreate containers on failure

                    Isn’t it just restart: always in the config? Unless you’re talking about podman, where you also need the podman-restart systemd service.

            • Voytrekk@sopuli.xyz
              2·
              2 days ago

              I migrated from docker containers on Unraid to using quadlets on RockyLinux. The Podlet utility helped a bit with taking an existing docker container and converting it to a quadlet. Also did thorough testing in a VM before swapping my server.

              • pjusk@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
                1·
                2 days ago

                Interesting, just migrated away from Unraid myself. But chose Proxmox -> Debian -> Podman Containers instead. Any reason in particular you chose Rocky?

                • Voytrekk@sopuli.xyz
                  1·
                  2 days ago

                  The security of Rocky is solid and RL 10 is supported for quite a long time. I’m also used to RHEL based systems at work, as we target Red Hat.

                  That being said, I wouldn’t recommend it for most people. SELinux can be annoying to deal with and can cause issues where it isn’t obvious that SELinux is the cause.

                  If I were to chose again, I would probably just pick Debian as most of my workloads are just running in containers or VMs. The only services running on the host are NFS and Samba.

          • moonpiedumplings@programming.devEnglish
            41·
            3 days ago

            The version that is installable from the repositories of Linux distros is all open source. Docker itself, the container engine and runtime are all open source. Nobody cares about stuff like docker desktop or docker sbx, not only are they not critical to the software itself, they aren’t that useful or valuable.

            • Kangae_Hishiryo@scribe.disroot.org
              1·
              3 days ago

              I don’t mean Docker Desktop, I mean docker-cli and moby.

              Just because something has a FOSS license and is open-sourced in some code forge doesn’t mean that it effectively respects some (or even all) of the four freedoms.

          • KubeRoot@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
            11·
            2 days ago

            It can’t be FOSS but not Libre, the Free in FOSS means Libre. And it also can’t be FOSS but not opensource, of course.

            • Kangae_Hishiryo@scribe.disroot.org
              11·
              2 days ago

              No, Free means “Gratis”, or “Free as in Free Beer”, Libre means “Free as in Freedom”. That’s why FLOSS is recommended to be used instead FOSS, because the latter can be prone to confusion.

        • lemmyvore@feddit.nlEnglish
          1·
          2 days ago

          The GUI is not technically “Docker”. It’s made by Docker the company but it doesn’t use the same runtime engine, because it’s meant for non-Linux OS which don’t have it. It uses whatever the host OS has in place as an alternative.

      • MoogleMaestro@lemmy.zipEnglish
        22·
        3 days ago

        It does, but it seems like it’s still a bit of an afterthought. But it’s getting better.

        Still tho, podman is fine and I like the project as an alternative to docker.

      • unitedwithme@lemmy.today
        71·
        3 days ago

        So, the Docker engine is free, just not the software under certain stipulations. See I don’t like that. A weird caveat for using it.

          • Kangae_Hishiryo@scribe.disroot.org
            2·
            3 days ago

            This NOTICE in both repos is weird asf:

            Docker Copyright 2012-2017 Docker, Inc.

            This product includes software developed at Docker, Inc. (https://www.docker.com/).

            This product contains software (https://github.com/creack/pty) developed by Keith Rarick, licensed under the MIT License.

            The following is courtesy of our legal counsel:

            Use and transfer of Docker may be subject to certain restrictions by the United States and other governments. It is your responsibility to ensure that your use and/or transfer does not violate applicable laws.

            For more information, please see https://www.bis.doc.gov/

            See also https://www.apache.org/dev/crypto.html and/or seek legal counsel.

            Also, they do limit some kind of uses if you don’t pay.

            • [object Object]@lemmy.world
              2·
              2 days ago

              Use and transfer of Docker may be subject to certain restrictions by the United States and other governments. It is your responsibility to ensure that your use and/or transfer does not violate applicable laws.

              That’s true of all software. It may be subject to restrictions by governments. But in this case, it seems to refer to the fact that the US restricted export of cryptographic software, and seemingly continues to restrict. See also Bernstein v. United States.

            • Lena@gregtech.eu
              3·
              3 days ago

              Also, they do limit some kind of uses if you don’t pay.

              You mean Docker Desktop?

              Also iirc all software developed in the USA is subject to those restrictions.

              • Kangae_Hishiryo@scribe.disroot.org
                1·
                3 days ago

                …iirc all software developed in the USA is subject to those restrictions.

                Oh, well, I didn’t knew about that, yeah.

                You mean Docker Desktop?

                And, in part yes, but these restrictions also apply to docker-cli and moby, although to a lesser extent

                • Lena@gregtech.eu
                  11·
                  3 days ago

                  And, in part yes, but these restrictions also apply to docker-cli and moby, although to a lesser extent

                  What restrictions? The ones on all US software or something else?

                  • [object Object]@lemmy.world
                    1·
                    2 days ago

                    As is evident just from the link at the bottom of the notice, it’s about US export controls on cryptographic software, which is a source of contention since the nineties.

      • EnsignWashout@startrek.website
        2·
        3 days ago

        Docker desktop is not. (open source)

        Which can be a pretty big deal.

        This works out to: The product is unencumbered, but the only reliable installer is encumbered as fuck.

        That’s a “no thanks”, from me.

        I don’t need the sword of “Docker fucking with my colleague’s ability to collaborate” hanging over each of my projects.

        I’m not mad at folks using Docker for backwards compatibility. I just don’t need to make the problem worse.

        • Lena@gregtech.eu
          2·
          2 days ago

          I found Docker pretty easy to install. Though apparently it’s harder on windows, where they suggest you just use docker desktop, in which case, yeah, fair point. But I’d just put docker in WSL if I had the misfortune of having to use it on Windows.

          • Mr. Satan@lemmy.zipEnglish
            1·
            1 day ago

            That’s exactly what I’m doing at work. Works a treat especially since I’m fine with CLI.

            Keep in mind that some WSL configuration might be required for better experience — like setting networkingMode to mirrored.

            Sharing code between WSL filesystem and Windows is still somewhat of a hassle.

          • EnsignWashout@startrek.website
            2·
            2 days ago

            But I’d just put docker in WSL if I had the misfortune of having to use it on Windows.

            Oh, thanks! I might try WSL next time, should I be so unfortunate, again.