I have been thinking of learning some programming recently, but I don’t feel confident enough. Is there any point in beginning with something like Zig or Go, and switching to something more serious later?
Is this bait? Zig and Go are very much serious, especially Zig.
Generally python/Javascript is good for learning the basics. To know how types work learn c#/java/go. To learn how the memory works Zig/C are good. To learn about what a fully defined behavior means in a program you learn Rust. To learn what actually happens on the processor you learn assembly.
Honestly, if you’re hyped about Zig go for it, although I’d suggest “warming up” by doing a tic tac toe in python.
Yes 99% of programming is the higher level thought process behind making a program, and that skill transfers between programming languages. The specific syntax doesn’t matter that much.
If Zig is easy than that means C is easy (as Zig is pretty much nicer written C) and if C is easy than, oh wait everything is written in C. I guess the only thing left to do is learn an unnecessary overcomplicated abstraction of C like java or C++.
As for the question, pick a task than pick a language, servers? Go seems to be replacing Java for the next generation, Games? Zig C# Odin C C++ Lua, Rewrites? Rust. Random small scripts? Python. Bare metal? C C++ Zig.
Also Zig Odin and Go are all C like languages if you learn one you learn about them all (with the exception of manual memory management for Go). My biased self recommend Zig as I think its the nicest, you almost certainly won’t get a job in it but the skills will transfer directly to C or Go where you can get jobs.
My personal 2 bits: start with JavaScript.
You can run it in your browser console and get at least a little but of benefit from it no matter how far you go, scripting on web pages you use regularly.
Thanks to Node, you can reasonably build full stack systems with it. Fair warning, it’s really best for I/O, so it’s not really ideal for genuinely logically complex stuff.
You’ll more quickly get to bigger tangible benefits connecting things that have already been built anyway.
Python as a starter otherwise, which is suitable for that genuinely logically complex stuff.
I don’t know about zig, but go is absolutely serious.
Learing the bases of programming is language agnostic really. You can start even with pseudo code, then learn the language you will like to work with. Just choose any language that seems fun and enjoy the process.
Good luck!
The big parts are philosophy and libraries, learning a language is relatively easy.
Avoid BASIC though, never had much use of the hours I spent on it as a preteen.
I did learn alot of useful stuff when I was playind around with arduinos, and since then the market of fun microcontrollers have expandes quite a bit. Its great to see your code immediatly change stuff in the real world even if its just a basic display connected to a thermometer
Arduino programming is basically C++ with helpers so yeah you learn a lot!!
BASIC, Perl, Delphi… there are many languages you don’t want to start with.
I question the suggestion that Zig and Go are not “serious” programming languages. They certainly weren’t designed to be “easy” beginner languages.
I don’t think it matters a whole lot which language you start with. Learning to program is largely separate from learning a particular language, and if you do programming for a while, you’ll probably learn several. I do think someone who wants to understand programming deeply should learn each of:
- A lisp, probably Racket, but others will do. This teaches a lot about how computation works, and is at least a local maximum for abstractive power.
- C, an assembly language, or something similar where the developer must manage memory manually and has the ability to mismanage it. This teaches how computers work.
- A statically typed functional language, probably Haskell. This makes programming more math-like and probably represents a local maximum for what can be proven about a program’s behavior without solving the halting problem.
- SQL. I wish there was something prettier with a modicum of popularity that does what it does (PRQL is my favorite recent attempt), but there isn’t. This teaches thinking about data in sets and relations, and you will almost certainly use it in practice.
The creator of Go has an infamous quote on the language.
The key point here is our programmers are Googlers, they’re not researchers. They’re typically, fairly young, fresh out of school, probably learned Java, maybe learned C or C++, probably learned Python. They’re not capable of understanding a brilliant language but we want to use them to build good software. So, the language that we give them has to be easy for them to understand and easy to adopt. – Rob Pike
That’s one of the dumbest articles I‘ve ever read. Glad the author realized it themselves.
So Go was meant to be something similar to Java 4. A language where it is very difficult to shoot to your feet.
I really hate SQL it often feels like you have to work backwards instead of procedurally when you get anything complex going. Thank goodness I mostly work in pyspark.
Edit: Also thanks for the shout to prql looks cool might try it in a personal project or something
My entire career is mostly 90% SQL and CRUD. To each their own!
Same! The more I learn the more astounded I am. You mean I can retrieve 5m records in .01 seconds?
CRUD
When I was growing up the most advanced console to which I had access was the Genesis (or Master System, if you prefer). On it, by far the game I played the most was Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3. (I liked Tobias Boon - sorry - Noob Saibot).
For that game, you could unlock debug mode by pressing b, a, down, left, a, down, c, right, up, down. BADLADCRUD. I don’t know what CRUD is in the context in which you were commenting, but it reminded me of this.
It stands for Create, Read, Update, Delete. Those are the primary operations on a database and a crud app refers to one which is little more than a front end to a database.
That sounds like a RESTful API.
Regardless, TIL. Thanks!
Why in your opinion do you think any person who wants to understand programming “deeply” (I’m not exactly sure what you mean with that) should learn lisp and haskell? It seems way way unnecessary.
And then you throw in SQL. Sure why not, but then why not javascript, Lua, c++, rust, PHP and a whole load of others who will teach you something unique most probably.
Not OP but I was a pretty competent C/C++/C# programmer first. Lisp and Haskell both totally changed how I thing about programming. I’ve used all the other languages you listed and I don’t think any of them have a unique philosophy to offer, except maybe rust for the memory model.
Lisp teaches you how flexible programming languages should be. Haskell teaches you about things like higher kinded types, and exposes you to loads of cool category theory stuff. Other languages can probably accomplish these goals, but I don’t think any of the alternatives you listed could.
Flexibility? Have you tried c++ 😁, check out template meta programming, and voilà rusts static memory management and compile time error checking in c++.
What I want to say is you don’t need this or that language to grasp functionality, and IMO heskel and lisp probably have more interesting and modern counterparts, if you feel the need.
Anything is better than nothing.
Go and Zig are serious languages. Go is especially established and has a big ecosystem and capabilities. You could stick with Go forever if you don’t want to expand afterwards.
Starting ‘simpler’ is better because it gives you successes. It keeps you going.
Exactly don’t start with easy languages you should start with the best programming language HolyC, the divine language.
Where did you get the idea that Zig is an “easy” language?
Go is not serious? TIL.
There is benefit in learning any language.
I believe, I should’ve put this in quotation marks
Depending on what he means by “serious”. I don’t know what hat means in context of languages. So, depending on his personal definition what “serious” means, Go might not be serious at all.
A lot of basic principles remain the same from one language to another. Some have more features than other, some have slightly obtuse grammar, but as long as you stay in the same class of programming language, it can be a good learning experience. Learning from “simple” languages and building up was the way to go for a long while.
I’m not sure I’d call Zig or Go “easy” programming language though. Most languages you’ll hear about these days are quite high level (even C++ and C got there over time). These days, I’m not sure where one would start from scratch. “scripting” languages are a good idea, since they are extremely easy to experiment with, and unless you start poking too much can’t do any harm.
But basically, if you stay with imperative programming (most used languages are like this) 80-90% of the knowledge you’ll get in one translate into another; there’s no bad way to start.
I would suggest a different approach. Think about what you want to achieve with programming. Look at the languages which can be used to do this task. Choose one and try some tutorials, I recommend freecodecamp it helped me a lot.
I can’t really comment on zig and go but I think they are pretty serious languages tbh.
no. You must start with malboge
C
Or Pascal - back in my day it was believed it’s close to natural language
