“Feels good” is not a valid justification to harm others, imagine how that justification would apply in other cases and it’s pretty easy to see how it falls apart. You can’t be logically consistent with that justification to harm others. The same with apathy, also not a justification to needlessly exploit animals.
In reference to my other conversation regarding the comparison of products that use electronics vs meat consumption, I would ask if “convenience” was a valid justification.
Given the horrors of the electronics supply chain (slavery, horrific working conditions, cartels etc) im not sure why convenience electronics (phones, laptops, pc’s) use would be OK, but meat consumption would not.
Im not saying the horrors are equivalent and it’s not a dig at you, I’m genuinely trying to figure out why one kind of horror is OK, but another is not and how people make those calls.
I’m not sure a strictly maths based ethics is the way to go, that’s where you get into sociopath greater-good style considerations like “If i take out the managing team of <Big Meat Corp> , eventually they’ll recover but i’ll have saved approximately X animals in the meantime”
Don’t get me wrong, i’m not against that kind of thinking, i’m just not sure it’s a viable long-term lifestyle.
In order to produce 1 steak, a cow has to die.
In order to produce n steaks 1 cow has to die.
Arguably it’s probably slightly more than 1, given the morbidity rate of cows before they reach the “food production” stage.
In order to produce 1 phone, many different people have to work to produce it, enslaved or not.
In order to produce 1 phone a non-zero number of people will (likely) be maimed/outright killed while working under slave labour conditions.
If you include the more realistic cost/benefits i suggested above does that change the calculations involved for you ?
The following is an aside to the main conversation:
It was been pointed out that some electronics are as good as necessities for most people, while i think there’s a subjective aspect to “necessity” I’ll concede some electronics use it’s not the same as meat consumption. Though i would further argue that under today’s food production and distribution systems, meat consumption could be argued to be a necessity in some situations.
But that’s almost certainly an entirely different conversation.
“Feels good” is not a valid justification to harm others, imagine how that justification would apply in other cases and it’s pretty easy to see how it falls apart. You can’t be logically consistent with that justification to harm others. The same with apathy, also not a justification to needlessly exploit animals.
In reference to my other conversation regarding the comparison of products that use electronics vs meat consumption, I would ask if “convenience” was a valid justification.
Given the horrors of the electronics supply chain (slavery, horrific working conditions, cartels etc) im not sure why convenience electronics (phones, laptops, pc’s) use would be OK, but meat consumption would not.
Im not saying the horrors are equivalent and it’s not a dig at you, I’m genuinely trying to figure out why one kind of horror is OK, but another is not and how people make those calls.
In order to produce 1 steak, a cow has to die.
In order to produce 1 phone, many different people have to work to produce it, enslaved or not.
This is the kind of calculation vegans make when deciding how to live ethically. We want to reduce as much animal suffering as possible.
I’m not sure a strictly maths based ethics is the way to go, that’s where you get into sociopath greater-good style considerations like “If i take out the managing team of <Big Meat Corp> , eventually they’ll recover but i’ll have saved approximately X animals in the meantime”
Don’t get me wrong, i’m not against that kind of thinking, i’m just not sure it’s a viable long-term lifestyle.
In order to produce n steaks 1 cow has to die.
Arguably it’s probably slightly more than 1, given the morbidity rate of cows before they reach the “food production” stage.
In order to produce 1 phone a non-zero number of people will (likely) be maimed/outright killed while working under slave labour conditions.
If you include the more realistic cost/benefits i suggested above does that change the calculations involved for you ?
The following is an aside to the main conversation:
It was been pointed out that some electronics are as good as necessities for most people, while i think there’s a subjective aspect to “necessity” I’ll concede some electronics use it’s not the same as meat consumption. Though i would further argue that under today’s food production and distribution systems, meat consumption could be argued to be a necessity in some situations.
But that’s almost certainly an entirely different conversation.