Woke Kurtzman Trek is actually oddly misogynist if you think about it. Captain Janeway is a real, respectable officer who can go toe to toe with any man (or other) she encounters, because she’s badass, and a rock-solid Starfleet officer in the mold of Kirk, Picard, and Cisco. Holly Hunter curled up in the captain’s chair like she’s getting cozy at home in front of a fire is a BAD look. Diverse casts of all shapes and orientations swearing at each other and acting like it’s high school, not a representation of a federation of hundreds of billions of sentients is a BAD look. Woke, dumb Kurtzman Trek portrays more female and diverse crews as less professional and dumber than their predecessors in Berman Trek, which I’m pretty sure is the opposite of what they’re trying to achieve.
I’ve seen the word “professionalism” come up in a lot of people’s complaints about nuTrek, but that concept of professional behaviour is something I just don’t value. If the people you’re working with stop respecting you because you choose to sit comfortably or let out an exuberant “fuck yeah!” when things go great, I think you’re working with the wrong people. I think only unserious and immature people would worry about that.
I’m also one of those who embraces the “scientists” view of Starfleet over the “military” view, so that might be a factor. I like to see the crew comfortable at their jobs and loving what they do.
So all of that is to say I’m 110% down with Holly Hunter letting her piggies out, and I don’t think that reflects badly on her or her gender in the least.
The word “professionalism” here a common dogwhistle for “obedience” and “conformity”. It’s use in this context is almost exclusively directed towards women, but also sometimes to black men.
When Micheal Burhnam disobeys orders it’s “unprofessional”, when Worf or Picard does it, it’s “bold”. When Ake sits down unconventionally it’s “unprofessional”, when Riker does it, it’s a quirky and beloved part of his character. etc. etc.
Yeah I’d say you hit the nail on the head. In a franchise that thought Spock saying his superiors should “go to hell” was such a great line they had Data ape it two films later, “professional” seems to be a label some characters have easier access to than others.
Okay, you don’t value the tone of pre-Kurtzman Trek. Great, it’s your series and IP nobody cares about anymore at this point, you won. Enjoy Holly Hunter’s The Magicians in space. I liked a prior version of the IP, which in my humble opinion was better via being actually popular.
If I based my esteem for things on how popular they are, I’d have never gotten into Star Trek. It was decidedly unpopular with my cohort at the time.
For what it’s worth I adore old school Trek. Just like I think it would be dumb to judge someone for being comfy or exuberant, I also wouldn’t judge someone for preferring a reserved demeanour like dear old Picard.
I also remember Geordi building model ships in engineering and running off to play with Data on the holodeck, so I don’t really see an incompatibility between the eras.
I mean, look at this scene. Is it really that far off from Tilly dropping her enthusiastic F bombs?
Well said. The unprofessional behavior is a significant contributor to turning me off nutrek. Why the hell do the engineering and science departments in discovery behave like 20 year olds in need of therapy? How the fuck did these people pass starfleet academy at all?
Sadly i am a little older than that, the therapy part is accurate though.
I am however not a highly trained, best of the best, sci fi astronaut academy graduate charged with overseeing a critical element of a colossal machine designed to violate the laws of physics; so why does that matter?
Exactly, these people are supposed to be the most psychologically and mentally and physically tested people in the galaxy. It was a scandal in TNG when Lt “Broccoli” was less than 110% because this is supposed to be the Delta Force of a more enlightened era when we expend our energy on peace and prosperity, so everyone tried to get him up to Enterprise spec, and he did, and it was a win for everyone. Can you imagine a Discovery character on a Berman Trek bridge?
Another one who wasn’t actually paying attention to the scenario or the dialogue while criticizing the show for being ‘dumbed down’ for younger audiences.
I admit I’m losing patience.
Dudes!!! This takes place when the Academy is being recreated after Starfleet and the Federation were seen to have failed large portion of the galaxy after the Burn.
This means that this class DID NOT complete with the best and the brightest across a well connected Federation with a common base of expectations.
They passed the entrance exams but it was not the same as a stable 24th century scenario, or even the early 25th century where Picard’s son was fast tracked based on experience.
Some, like Genesis, are from multi generational Starfleet families that hung on in secret bases during a century of anarch.
Most of the rest are off their planets or out of their small cluster of planets for the first time in their or their parents’ lives.
Others are the first of their species to enter Starfleet and are there for political reasons.
lmao why do you care about “bad looks”? are you doing PR for chancellor ake? who the hell cares. I cannot express how weird it is to me that you care about that. Honestly I’m completely baffled as to why you care about how a fictional character who wouldn’t care about your option if she was real, but can’t care about your opinion because she’s not, presents herself.
also believe drag queens in the 90s represented good christian values
I have no horse in the race, but an argument could be made about there being multiple types of drag, especially in the UK where it’s traditional to make fun of matriarchal figures by doing drag at panto for christmas.
now if the dudes doing that are doing it to get off, who knows, but it’s not all Drag Race queens and LGBT people doing it. (not that there’s anything wrong with that)… also that shit existed back then too.
I have to assume the people who think Star Trek is woke now also believe drag queens in the 90s represented good christian values
Woke Kurtzman Trek is actually oddly misogynist if you think about it. Captain Janeway is a real, respectable officer who can go toe to toe with any man (or other) she encounters, because she’s badass, and a rock-solid Starfleet officer in the mold of Kirk, Picard, and Cisco. Holly Hunter curled up in the captain’s chair like she’s getting cozy at home in front of a fire is a BAD look. Diverse casts of all shapes and orientations swearing at each other and acting like it’s high school, not a representation of a federation of hundreds of billions of sentients is a BAD look. Woke, dumb Kurtzman Trek portrays more female and diverse crews as less professional and dumber than their predecessors in Berman Trek, which I’m pretty sure is the opposite of what they’re trying to achieve.
I have a friend with autism who has trouble wearing shoes, and faces social judgement for it. To Me, Chancellor Ake is representation. SFA is woke.
I guarantee that guy never once made an internet post about how Riker sits
I’ve seen the word “professionalism” come up in a lot of people’s complaints about nuTrek, but that concept of professional behaviour is something I just don’t value. If the people you’re working with stop respecting you because you choose to sit comfortably or let out an exuberant “fuck yeah!” when things go great, I think you’re working with the wrong people. I think only unserious and immature people would worry about that.
I’m also one of those who embraces the “scientists” view of Starfleet over the “military” view, so that might be a factor. I like to see the crew comfortable at their jobs and loving what they do.
So all of that is to say I’m 110% down with Holly Hunter letting her piggies out, and I don’t think that reflects badly on her or her gender in the least.
The word “professionalism” here a common dogwhistle for “obedience” and “conformity”. It’s use in this context is almost exclusively directed towards women, but also sometimes to black men.
When Micheal Burhnam disobeys orders it’s “unprofessional”, when Worf or Picard does it, it’s “bold”. When Ake sits down unconventionally it’s “unprofessional”, when Riker does it, it’s a quirky and beloved part of his character. etc. etc.
Yeah I’d say you hit the nail on the head. In a franchise that thought Spock saying his superiors should “go to hell” was such a great line they had Data ape it two films later, “professional” seems to be a label some characters have easier access to than others.
Okay, you don’t value the tone of pre-Kurtzman Trek. Great, it’s your series and IP nobody cares about anymore at this point, you won. Enjoy Holly Hunter’s The Magicians in space. I liked a prior version of the IP, which in my humble opinion was better via being actually popular.
If I based my esteem for things on how popular they are, I’d have never gotten into Star Trek. It was decidedly unpopular with my cohort at the time.
For what it’s worth I adore old school Trek. Just like I think it would be dumb to judge someone for being comfy or exuberant, I also wouldn’t judge someone for preferring a reserved demeanour like dear old Picard.
I also remember Geordi building model ships in engineering and running off to play with Data on the holodeck, so I don’t really see an incompatibility between the eras.
I mean, look at this scene. Is it really that far off from Tilly dropping her enthusiastic F bombs?
https://youtu.be/Lr64khTqyYQ
If you can’t see how Kurtzman Trek is vastly crasser and dumber than Berman Trek, I don’t know what to tell you.
Which one is curling up in a comfy chair with a good book? Crass or dumb?
It’s deeply unserious.
Ah, yes, Star Trek, the “dead serious” show.
Well said. The unprofessional behavior is a significant contributor to turning me off nutrek. Why the hell do the engineering and science departments in discovery behave like 20 year olds in need of therapy? How the fuck did these people pass starfleet academy at all?
I can see someone else behaving like a 20 year old in need of therapy
Sadly i am a little older than that, the therapy part is accurate though.
I am however not a highly trained, best of the best, sci fi astronaut academy graduate charged with overseeing a critical element of a colossal machine designed to violate the laws of physics; so why does that matter?
Exactly, these people are supposed to be the most psychologically and mentally and physically tested people in the galaxy. It was a scandal in TNG when Lt “Broccoli” was less than 110% because this is supposed to be the Delta Force of a more enlightened era when we expend our energy on peace and prosperity, so everyone tried to get him up to Enterprise spec, and he did, and it was a win for everyone. Can you imagine a Discovery character on a Berman Trek bridge?
Another one who wasn’t actually paying attention to the scenario or the dialogue while criticizing the show for being ‘dumbed down’ for younger audiences.
I admit I’m losing patience.
Dudes!!! This takes place when the Academy is being recreated after Starfleet and the Federation were seen to have failed large portion of the galaxy after the Burn.
This means that this class DID NOT complete with the best and the brightest across a well connected Federation with a common base of expectations.
They passed the entrance exams but it was not the same as a stable 24th century scenario, or even the early 25th century where Picard’s son was fast tracked based on experience.
Some, like Genesis, are from multi generational Starfleet families that hung on in secret bases during a century of anarch.
Most of the rest are off their planets or out of their small cluster of planets for the first time in their or their parents’ lives.
Others are the first of their species to enter Starfleet and are there for political reasons.
This is a problem across all Kurtzman Trek from Discovery to his latest affront.
I think it’s fine if they act like highschoolers in a show for highschoolers. It just means that’s not a show that’s for me.
lmao why do you care about “bad looks”? are you doing PR for chancellor ake? who the hell cares. I cannot express how weird it is to me that you care about that. Honestly I’m completely baffled as to why you care about how a fictional character who wouldn’t care about your option if she was real, but can’t care about your opinion because she’s not, presents herself.
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I have no horse in the race, but an argument could be made about there being multiple types of drag, especially in the UK where it’s traditional to make fun of matriarchal figures by doing drag at panto for christmas.
now if the dudes doing that are doing it to get off, who knows, but it’s not all Drag Race queens and LGBT people doing it. (not that there’s anything wrong with that)… also that shit existed back then too.