That’s actually exactly how the 70s “chaos magick” (I.e Peter J. Caroll or Phill Hine, to list some authors) occultism works. If you get past the cringy name, it was one of the more interesting occultistm movements which actually kind of make sense even to me, as someone who’s not really into esoterism (or rather - I like researching it because it’s extremely interesting - the actual formal occultism, not new age bullshit, but would feel dumb practicing since I’m skeptical)
Their core idea is that all of the other occultist movements and orders are basically all the same - through belief, rituals and symbols you affect your subconscious to manifest change (in your subconscious behavior, not “summoning money” or “cursing my ex”), and it doesn’t matter what “flavor” / dogma / lore you choose to believe in. What matters is that you really truly belive.
So, a wiccan making circles in a forest while invoicing spirits or someone making a pizza pentagram while invoking Garfield is the same,as long as he believes into it.
The only thing that matters is that it works for you, and to find what does and what doesn’t they work with “paradigm shifts”, where you decide that " I"m going to try wicca for a year", and then you delve deep into that practice, trying to trully accept it and go all in, noting your experience and results, to see if it works for you. Some even suggest throwing a dice each morning to see what you’ll do today.
After a year, you review your results, and move on to other practice, I.e “I’ll be a christian for a year”, and you really get into it, going to churches, practicing all the daily prayers and rituals, and the like.
It’s my favorite occultism movement, because it’s one of the few where I can imagine that it actually makes sense and could work for making your life better, if you have grounded expectations of course. Having an open mind and just experimenting, as long as you are safe and don’t let it control your life, should mostly be just a net-positive, plus it’s actually fun
I don’t subscribe to Chaos Magick per se, but I do appreciate the postmodern view and willingness to sort of aggregate what works. Personally, it’s the cringe folks leaning into “I’m a mess, so I do chaos magic” crew that turn me off to the whole movement even though the premise is rational and based. That and I don’t like dealing with the costs of doing magick that just come with the territory. Sort of like remote viewing - if it works, then you get results and you’re doing it right.
I’m pleasantly surprised at Lemmy’s response to this comment, though.
Tbh I’ve never really looked into or talked with almost anyone who’s into oculltism. I do know a few friends who are heavily into the unformalized new-age stuff, and they are definitely not ok to the point it controls their life, but I realize that it’s a spectrum (and I don’t mean it as “it’s autism” way, but that the way people approach even to the new-age stuff can be a spectrum of reasonable-dangeeous). I’m mostly sad because you can’t really talk to people like that, and share cool lore on a topic most people consider downright crazy, because there isn’t any or they haven’t done any research. Even astrology has some cool lore and manuscripts, but they usually don’t care.
I just think it’s cool, and reading about the practices of different cults and orders is extremely interresting.
I’d vager a guess that “chaos magick” has a similar problem to LaVeye’s Satanism, where you get a lot of edgy people researching the bare minimum, if even that, and just being edgy. Not that it wasn’t edgy, it’s one of the few movements that was downright off-puting for me due to how extremely selfish and arogant it is (IIRC it’s basically “I m a massive dick and walk over anyone”), but people who don’t even know what they are subscribing to are worse.
I never got that feeling from chaos magick, it felt just like you said - extremely rational, and was actually the first movement that made sense, as in “I can imagine this actually working”, with the argument “rituals work by nudging your subconsciousness to the direction you need”.
That’s basically the same as Budhissm does, just by hacks and symbols instead of just sheer practice and will. And we kind of have a proof that budhism works.
And even for someone who doesn’t really believe in magic, this makes sense and I can imagine it actually working.
Plus, doing rituals is fun, and a little faith gives a pretty fun amount of LARPing into your life, as long as you don’t let it control you and are reasonable about it.
That’s actually exactly how the 70s “chaos magick” (I.e Peter J. Caroll or Phill Hine, to list some authors) occultism works. If you get past the cringy name, it was one of the more interesting occultistm movements which actually kind of make sense even to me, as someone who’s not really into esoterism (or rather - I like researching it because it’s extremely interesting - the actual formal occultism, not new age bullshit, but would feel dumb practicing since I’m skeptical)
Their core idea is that all of the other occultist movements and orders are basically all the same - through belief, rituals and symbols you affect your subconscious to manifest change (in your subconscious behavior, not “summoning money” or “cursing my ex”), and it doesn’t matter what “flavor” / dogma / lore you choose to believe in. What matters is that you really truly belive.
So, a wiccan making circles in a forest while invoicing spirits or someone making a pizza pentagram while invoking Garfield is the same,as long as he believes into it.
The only thing that matters is that it works for you, and to find what does and what doesn’t they work with “paradigm shifts”, where you decide that " I"m going to try wicca for a year", and then you delve deep into that practice, trying to trully accept it and go all in, noting your experience and results, to see if it works for you. Some even suggest throwing a dice each morning to see what you’ll do today.
After a year, you review your results, and move on to other practice, I.e “I’ll be a christian for a year”, and you really get into it, going to churches, practicing all the daily prayers and rituals, and the like.
It’s my favorite occultism movement, because it’s one of the few where I can imagine that it actually makes sense and could work for making your life better, if you have grounded expectations of course. Having an open mind and just experimenting, as long as you are safe and don’t let it control your life, should mostly be just a net-positive, plus it’s actually fun
I don’t subscribe to Chaos Magick per se, but I do appreciate the postmodern view and willingness to sort of aggregate what works. Personally, it’s the cringe folks leaning into “I’m a mess, so I do chaos magic” crew that turn me off to the whole movement even though the premise is rational and based. That and I don’t like dealing with the costs of doing magick that just come with the territory. Sort of like remote viewing - if it works, then you get results and you’re doing it right.
I’m pleasantly surprised at Lemmy’s response to this comment, though.
Tbh I’ve never really looked into or talked with almost anyone who’s into oculltism. I do know a few friends who are heavily into the unformalized new-age stuff, and they are definitely not ok to the point it controls their life, but I realize that it’s a spectrum (and I don’t mean it as “it’s autism” way, but that the way people approach even to the new-age stuff can be a spectrum of reasonable-dangeeous). I’m mostly sad because you can’t really talk to people like that, and share cool lore on a topic most people consider downright crazy, because there isn’t any or they haven’t done any research. Even astrology has some cool lore and manuscripts, but they usually don’t care.
I just think it’s cool, and reading about the practices of different cults and orders is extremely interresting.
I’d vager a guess that “chaos magick” has a similar problem to LaVeye’s Satanism, where you get a lot of edgy people researching the bare minimum, if even that, and just being edgy. Not that it wasn’t edgy, it’s one of the few movements that was downright off-puting for me due to how extremely selfish and arogant it is (IIRC it’s basically “I m a massive dick and walk over anyone”), but people who don’t even know what they are subscribing to are worse.
I never got that feeling from chaos magick, it felt just like you said - extremely rational, and was actually the first movement that made sense, as in “I can imagine this actually working”, with the argument “rituals work by nudging your subconsciousness to the direction you need”.
That’s basically the same as Budhissm does, just by hacks and symbols instead of just sheer practice and will. And we kind of have a proof that budhism works.
And even for someone who doesn’t really believe in magic, this makes sense and I can imagine it actually working.
Plus, doing rituals is fun, and a little faith gives a pretty fun amount of LARPing into your life, as long as you don’t let it control you and are reasonable about it.