my gripe with them about that, is that they refuse to do any systemic change to avoid fascism, because they have three same corporate donors that republicans have. their job isn’t too protect the people, is to preserve the status quo that leads to erosion of rights.
They had plenty of time to codify abortion rights, instead they sat on it to use as a carrot for the next election.
that’s why every election is the most important, because they refuse to fix the system
On one hand, I would point out that many ‘easy’ fixes are not actually that easy when you consider the fucked state of our government and that the Dems are inherently a ‘big-tent’ party.
On the other hand, you’re completely correct that the Dem mainstream refuses (without being pressed) to consider anything that shakes the precious status quo because it would upset their donors, and they refuse to consider that the system might be broken and in need of fixing (though that latter point, admittedly, they share with our blinkered fucking electorate).
I would point out more broadly that though money is a MASSIVE influence in US politics, ultimately, votes are the motivator for most Dem politicians. Politicians are generally in the position because they like power, and they cling to power by re-election. If the narrative of the electorate changes, and voting patterns with it, especially primary voting patterns, Dem politicians will fall over themselves to change their stated positions. If by the next primary cycle, the Dem electorate had shifted to be a bunch of far-left radicals who demanded repeated-if-futile attempts to reform the system even with a minority in the legislature, and massacred incumbents accordingly, even ghouls like Pelosi would suddenly become champions of ‘the people’.
The mistake many people on here make is thinking that politicians in a bourgeois democracy are loyal to capital in some nebulous way, and aiming for wealth. By and large, they are not (though there are certainly exceptions, both ideological and personal). By and large, they are loyal to themselves, and aiming for power. Capital and wealth are only means to that end. As long as the support of capital buys them votes, and wealth buys them influence, they will pursue both - when capital stops guaranteeing a re-election from an electorate with the approximate memory of goldfish, mainstream politicians will change their allegiances accordingly.
HOW the fuck we get there, I have no fucking clue. But it is good to remain clear-sighted on the nature of the enemy.
Ah yes the famous American political powerhouses, the Communists and the checks notes Russian CIA.
tbf, while I think the previous comment was silly, that Trump is in office again suggests the latter may not be quite as much of a nonentity in US politics as I would’ve said in, say, 2015.
Tankies not organizing and voting to then wonder why they have no influence is like not training for a marathon and wondering why you aren’t making it very far.
Makes perfect sense when you realize their goal is to accelerate the complete collapse of the system so that their perfect ideology can rise from the ashes.
The snark from the sidelines is just gravy on top.
I don’t think everyone who talks like that is an accelerationist. Many are just deeply disillusioned, and fuck, I can hardly blame them for being disillusioned.
I just think that particular volley is misaimed. The Dems have plenty of problems - emphasizing the importance of elections - especially considering the conse-fucking-quences of losing the last one we’re seeing right now - is not one of them.
Probably true, I think the “vote blue no matter who” line needs to really die. The messaging needs to be that the vote is against fascism, not in support of the status quo.
I have always understood it to mean voting against fascism using a candidate that has a chance of winning instead of throwing away the vote to a third party due to first past the post.
Or expanded “The only way to stop fascism is to vote blue no matter who in the general election.” Which isn’t a great slogan since some Dems still enable fascists.
True, but they’re not going to vote or offer support anyway. So. fuckem. In their worst case scenario Democrats win and advance the goals of H4A, Green New Deal, and (now) rebuilding everything trump destroyed in six months.
Even more so when Dem turn out is so fucking low compared to the Reps. But at this point, what can even overcome all the voter apathy? If voting against fascism doesn’t do it, I have no idea what will.
Considering he called it quits early and told everyone to support that shithead Biden I’m not surprised. Anyone that supports either of the major parties can get fucked.
Let me rephrase, then - do you not remember how Bernie performed in 2020 before he dropped out of the primary?
I was a Bernie supporter. I am a Bernie supporter. I campaigned hard for him, both in 2016 and 2020. And seeing my fellow Americans - and worse, Dems, who are the less right-wing of this fucking population - express overwhelming apathy in 2020 was heartbreaking.
Anyone that supports either of the major parties can get fucked.
Okay, now that you’ve excluded a majority of the US population from your calculations, what’s our next fucking step
Re-education on how these fuckers have been destroying everything and making everyone’s lives worse for decades all to keep helping those at the top. Maybe they toss is a crumb every once in a while, but not one big enough that will piss off donors. You start by turning everyone against the ruling class cause this is class war, not team sports, and the major parties are on the wrong side of this war.
Being against the rabid Zionism of the Dem mainstream is based. The second point, not so much.
???
my gripe with them about that, is that they refuse to do any systemic change to avoid fascism, because they have three same corporate donors that republicans have. their job isn’t too protect the people, is to preserve the status quo that leads to erosion of rights.
They had plenty of time to codify abortion rights, instead they sat on it to use as a carrot for the next election.
that’s why every election is the most important, because they refuse to fix the system
On one hand, I would point out that many ‘easy’ fixes are not actually that easy when you consider the fucked state of our government and that the Dems are inherently a ‘big-tent’ party.
On the other hand, you’re completely correct that the Dem mainstream refuses (without being pressed) to consider anything that shakes the precious status quo because it would upset their donors, and they refuse to consider that the system might be broken and in need of fixing (though that latter point, admittedly, they share with our blinkered fucking electorate).
I would point out more broadly that though money is a MASSIVE influence in US politics, ultimately, votes are the motivator for most Dem politicians. Politicians are generally in the position because they like power, and they cling to power by re-election. If the narrative of the electorate changes, and voting patterns with it, especially primary voting patterns, Dem politicians will fall over themselves to change their stated positions. If by the next primary cycle, the Dem electorate had shifted to be a bunch of far-left radicals who demanded repeated-if-futile attempts to reform the system even with a minority in the legislature, and massacred incumbents accordingly, even ghouls like Pelosi would suddenly become champions of ‘the people’.
The mistake many people on here make is thinking that politicians in a bourgeois democracy are loyal to capital in some nebulous way, and aiming for wealth. By and large, they are not (though there are certainly exceptions, both ideological and personal). By and large, they are loyal to themselves, and aiming for power. Capital and wealth are only means to that end. As long as the support of capital buys them votes, and wealth buys them influence, they will pursue both - when capital stops guaranteeing a re-election from an electorate with the approximate memory of goldfish, mainstream politicians will change their allegiances accordingly.
HOW the fuck we get there, I have no fucking clue. But it is good to remain clear-sighted on the nature of the enemy.
I think their point is that they pull the same tactic every year and it’s clear it’s shit
You mean tankies and the FSB right
No, we mean the idiot controlled opposition that is the DNC.
The ones that wouldn’t be rounding up immigrants, kissing putin, and tanking the economy? That idiot controlled opposition?
You do know Obama created the cages kids were being put in and Biden did nothing to stop it from happening even when he became president right?
Nope. Prove it.
Took a 5 second Google search
A TRUMP PRESS RELEASE?
Goddamn, you’re either the driest wit in the universe or a complete moron.
The only true statement in your sentence is about Putin.
Ah yes the famous American political powerhouses, the Communists and the *checks notes* Russian CIA.
What?
tbf, while I think the previous comment was silly, that Trump is in office again suggests the latter may not be quite as much of a nonentity in US politics as I would’ve said in, say, 2015.
[drinking]
Tankies not organizing and voting to then wonder why they have no influence is like not training for a marathon and wondering why you aren’t making it very far.
Not just tankies, unfortunately.
Makes perfect sense when you realize their goal is to accelerate the complete collapse of the system so that their perfect ideology can rise from the ashes.
The snark from the sidelines is just gravy on top.
I don’t think everyone who talks like that is an accelerationist. Many are just deeply disillusioned, and fuck, I can hardly blame them for being disillusioned.
I just think that particular volley is misaimed. The Dems have plenty of problems - emphasizing the importance of elections - especially considering the conse-fucking-quences of losing the last one we’re seeing right now - is not one of them.
Probably true, I think the “vote blue no matter who” line needs to really die. The messaging needs to be that the vote is against fascism, not in support of the status quo.
I have always understood it to mean voting against fascism using a candidate that has a chance of winning instead of throwing away the vote to a third party due to first past the post.
Or expanded “The only way to stop fascism is to vote blue no matter who in the general election.” Which isn’t a great slogan since some Dems still enable fascists.
Which is what it’s supposed to mean, but MLs and Anarchist’s only seem to hear the “Vote blue” part.
Pretty much anything turned into a slogan loses a significant amount of meaning.
True, but they’re not going to vote or offer support anyway. So. fuckem. In their worst case scenario Democrats win and advance the goals of H4A, Green New Deal, and (now) rebuilding everything trump destroyed in six months.
Love you saying “fuck em”, but I can guarantee they’ll be who you blame when the Dems lose…again
When they do absolutely nothing but shit on all Dems and don’t have the common sense to even go vote, yeah. I will.
Even more so when Dem turn out is so fucking low compared to the Reps. But at this point, what can even overcome all the voter apathy? If voting against fascism doesn’t do it, I have no idea what will.
Putting forward a candidate that stands against genocide and for leftist ideals like M4A, living wages, caps on rent, and government housing.
Stop putting up neolib and you’ll see better turnout.
Fuck’s sake, do you not remember how Bernie performed in 2020?
Considering he called it quits early and told everyone to support that shithead Biden I’m not surprised. Anyone that supports either of the major parties can get fucked.
Let me rephrase, then - do you not remember how Bernie performed in 2020 before he dropped out of the primary?
I was a Bernie supporter. I am a Bernie supporter. I campaigned hard for him, both in 2016 and 2020. And seeing my fellow Americans - and worse, Dems, who are the less right-wing of this fucking population - express overwhelming apathy in 2020 was heartbreaking.
Okay, now that you’ve excluded a majority of the US population from your calculations, what’s our next fucking step
Re-education on how these fuckers have been destroying everything and making everyone’s lives worse for decades all to keep helping those at the top. Maybe they toss is a crumb every once in a while, but not one big enough that will piss off donors. You start by turning everyone against the ruling class cause this is class war, not team sports, and the major parties are on the wrong side of this war.