In 1979, a historian named Christopher Lasch, who had no psychiatric credentials, wrote a book arguing that modern American culture was increasing the prevalence of a particular psychiatric disorder in the general population.
The book gained a lot of cultural traction, especially among people who call themselves pop psychologists, but whose actual job is writing scam self-help books. They started using this disorder in their books as a bogeyman. They said people with this disorder are living among us, stealing our energy and resources and making us weak. Basically just a reskinned version of the antisemitic conspiracy theory.
These narratives became so popular that people started using the slur for a person who has the disorder without even knowing they were talking about a disorder. They thought it was just a word for a certain kind of bad person. Like how kids in the 90s used the R word.
You heard that word and didn’t realise it was a slur, and you used it to describe your parents.
I mean, I’m autistic, and I’m pretty sure I can outdo you on how autism (and aspergers) was literally invented by literal Nazis, to literally torture, ostracize, maim, and murder Jewish children, and others who would not conform to their worldview.
… but …
Words exist and their meanings change over time.
Autism Spectrum Disorder is a thing.
Narcissistic Personality Disorder is a thing.
They have APA definitions, they’re defined in the DSM.
Are these definitions perfect?
No.
… Do they still mean things though, convey a general concept, maybe a specific diagnostic one, in more technical contexts?
Yes.
I’m not gonna stop using the word narcissist because you think it’s antisemitic, that its a racist slur.
Because it isn’t.
That you think it is, that’s rather strange.
Is there some other word we should use to denote… very self-centered, very egoistic, very egotistical, unable to take criticism or admit mistake, constantly neg everyone around them, have obviously hypocritical standards and demands and needs, need constant adulation and attention, are very grandiose, lack empathy despite constantly demanding it?
In case you are unfamilair with the concept, beyond simply only Lasch:
See, as a person with CPTSD from the level and extent to which I have been traumatized by narcissists…
I know how they operate, and I’ve basically just played this one, fed into their compulsive need to make everything about themselves, to always see themselves as a victim.
I’ve here taken this uh, organic, emergent, unexpected turn of events, to turn this into an example that further showcases how narcissism actually works.
Why do this?
Unironically, to raise awareness.
So, so many people who are abused by narcissists are of course also gaslit by them, and don’t realize that the way a narcissist acts, the things they tell you are normal…
… they’re not normal.
Here, here’s the song I use as my ‘Ode to Narcissists.’
Listen to lyrics. (Skip to about 2 min if you’re not a fan of the non radio cut, the extended version)
Alright cool dude, just as someone who also has autism, and also had a narc parent, and who did the whole deep dive over months giving myself a practical degree on the topic, thought I throw a bit of support your way cause ya know hoy por ti, mañana por mí 😁
I did actually block that person, so I can’t reply to comments stemming from their comments without doing it more manually, not on my phone as I normally do, but uh, muchas gracias amigo, no hay mal que por bien no venga, y, sobre aviso no hay engaño.
( Lo siento para mi español torpe, hace mucho que no lo hablo. =P )
So you’re saying autism and narcissism (autism spectrum disorder and narcissistic personality disorder) are similar enough that you are certain you can relate to the struggles of people with NPD and you know they shouldn’t be concerned about having a slur used?
Suppose someone who hated Elon Musk called him a nasty word like “emotionless autist” or “robot sperg”, as examples of anti-autism slurs based on shortening the name of the diagnosis. I think this would be the same as calling your parents the slur you used. If you can honestly say you’d be completely fine having an anti-autism slur used on a bad person, then I’ll accept your use of an anti-narcissism slur on bad people. But if you think one of those two very similar situations would be ableist and would hurt disabled people, then please accept that they’re both ableist and they both hurt disabled people.
So you’re saying autism and narcissism (autism spectrum disorder and narcissistic personality disorder) are similar enough that you are certain you can relate to the struggles of people with NPD and you know they shouldn’t be concerned about having a slur used?
Nope.
I am saying they are both words, concepts, with complex etymologies, histories, whose specific meanings change over time, and are sometimes or even often used clumsily, or misused… but they still fundamentally do have meaning.
These terms can be used as slurs, insults.
They can also be used dispationately, accurately.
Here’s another example of a word like that:
Obese.
It’s got a fairly clear and straightforward definition, based off of BMI.
Now, is the BMI perfect? No, there are a good number of factors that the simple BMI glosses over, you’d have to take those factors into account to make a more accurate determination, classificatiom.
Doesn’t mean obesity isn’t real, doesn’t mean no one is obese, and again, it also doesn’t mean that some people use that term as a slur, an insult.
Also, me explaing this does not mean that I claim to understand the struggles of obese people as they do, living with or struggling with obesity, however you want to phrase that.
That would be rather presumptuous of me, now wouldn’t it?
I again have no clue how you were able to read ‘I can relate to the struggles of a person with NPD’ out of what I wrote.
I never said that, I never said anything like that.
Well… ok.
I kinda maybe just lied a little bit there, with that slightly imprecise, casual phrasing.
With this latest response of yours… I’m pretty sure I know how you heard something completely different than what I said, how you invented a different meaning that doesn’t exist in the text I wrote, how you managed to find a way to be personally offended and attacked.
You are a narcissist, you have NPD.
You’ve found a way to make my pithy quip about my own trauma into your trauma, actually.
You’ve managed to invent, and then try to reframe this whole discussion about you.
You’ve popped in to let everyone know that your feelings have been hurt, and that I’m a bad person who uses bad words like a bad person who hates Jews.
This is perhaps the most classic narcissist behavior, immediately recognizable to anyone who has ever known a narcissist: The ability (need? unstoppable compulsion?) to insert yourself into essentially any situation, proclaim “I’m the victim, actually”, and then character assasinate basically anyone, for any reason, in any way.
I don’t think that me saying any of this is going to change your mind.
I also don’t care how you feel, because for you, feelings are a fluid, morphing weapon; you’ll either have or claim to have, at any given moment, whatever feelings which are in your estimation, optimal to convey either that you are genuinely aggrieved, or that your target is truly heinous.
I don’t care if you can or cannot control your reflexive weaponization of your feelings, your delusional reflexive interpretation of anything anyone says as either a personal insult against you, or not sufficiently adulatory, supplicatory.
I am writing this reply, after which I am blocking you, so that others may be able to see this conversation, to see what narcissism is, how it works, and why people like me, who had their formative years shaped by people like you, why people like me have CPTSD and trust issues.
In 1979, a historian named Christopher Lasch, who had no psychiatric credentials, wrote a book arguing that modern American culture was increasing the prevalence of a particular psychiatric disorder in the general population.
The book gained a lot of cultural traction, especially among people who call themselves pop psychologists, but whose actual job is writing scam self-help books. They started using this disorder in their books as a bogeyman. They said people with this disorder are living among us, stealing our energy and resources and making us weak. Basically just a reskinned version of the antisemitic conspiracy theory.
These narratives became so popular that people started using the slur for a person who has the disorder without even knowing they were talking about a disorder. They thought it was just a word for a certain kind of bad person. Like how kids in the 90s used the R word.
You heard that word and didn’t realise it was a slur, and you used it to describe your parents.
The word is “n*rcisisst”
I mean, I’m autistic, and I’m pretty sure I can outdo you on how autism (and aspergers) was literally invented by literal Nazis, to literally torture, ostracize, maim, and murder Jewish children, and others who would not conform to their worldview.
… but …
Words exist and their meanings change over time.
Autism Spectrum Disorder is a thing.
Narcissistic Personality Disorder is a thing.
They have APA definitions, they’re defined in the DSM.
Are these definitions perfect?
No.
… Do they still mean things though, convey a general concept, maybe a specific diagnostic one, in more technical contexts?
Yes.
I’m not gonna stop using the word narcissist because you think it’s antisemitic, that its a racist slur.
Because it isn’t.
That you think it is, that’s rather strange.
Is there some other word we should use to denote… very self-centered, very egoistic, very egotistical, unable to take criticism or admit mistake, constantly neg everyone around them, have obviously hypocritical standards and demands and needs, need constant adulation and attention, are very grandiose, lack empathy despite constantly demanding it?
In case you are unfamilair with the concept, beyond simply only Lasch:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20366662
Unless you’re going to tell me you know my parents better than I do: Trust me, they are narcissists.
If you are going to tell me you know my parents better than I do: Kindly fuck right off with your impossibly presumptuous bullshit.
Boy this thread is the strangest thing I’ve seen in a minute. hope you aren’t letting this gaslighting weirdo get to you
Oh I’m not, but I appreciate your concern.
See, as a person with CPTSD from the level and extent to which I have been traumatized by narcissists…
I know how they operate, and I’ve basically just played this one, fed into their compulsive need to make everything about themselves, to always see themselves as a victim.
I’ve here taken this uh, organic, emergent, unexpected turn of events, to turn this into an example that further showcases how narcissism actually works.
Why do this?
Unironically, to raise awareness.
So, so many people who are abused by narcissists are of course also gaslit by them, and don’t realize that the way a narcissist acts, the things they tell you are normal…
… they’re not normal.
Here, here’s the song I use as my ‘Ode to Narcissists.’
Listen to lyrics. (Skip to about 2 min if you’re not a fan of the non radio cut, the extended version)
New Order - Blue Monday
Alright cool dude, just as someone who also has autism, and also had a narc parent, and who did the whole deep dive over months giving myself a practical degree on the topic, thought I throw a bit of support your way cause ya know hoy por ti, mañana por mí 😁
I did actually block that person, so I can’t reply to comments stemming from their comments without doing it more manually, not on my phone as I normally do, but uh, muchas gracias amigo, no hay mal que por bien no venga, y, sobre aviso no hay engaño.
( Lo siento para mi español torpe, hace mucho que no lo hablo. =P )
So you’re saying autism and narcissism (autism spectrum disorder and narcissistic personality disorder) are similar enough that you are certain you can relate to the struggles of people with NPD and you know they shouldn’t be concerned about having a slur used?
Suppose someone who hated Elon Musk called him a nasty word like “emotionless autist” or “robot sperg”, as examples of anti-autism slurs based on shortening the name of the diagnosis. I think this would be the same as calling your parents the slur you used. If you can honestly say you’d be completely fine having an anti-autism slur used on a bad person, then I’ll accept your use of an anti-narcissism slur on bad people. But if you think one of those two very similar situations would be ableist and would hurt disabled people, then please accept that they’re both ableist and they both hurt disabled people.
Nope.
I am saying they are both words, concepts, with complex etymologies, histories, whose specific meanings change over time, and are sometimes or even often used clumsily, or misused… but they still fundamentally do have meaning.
These terms can be used as slurs, insults.
They can also be used dispationately, accurately.
Here’s another example of a word like that:
Obese.
It’s got a fairly clear and straightforward definition, based off of BMI.
Now, is the BMI perfect? No, there are a good number of factors that the simple BMI glosses over, you’d have to take those factors into account to make a more accurate determination, classificatiom.
Doesn’t mean obesity isn’t real, doesn’t mean no one is obese, and again, it also doesn’t mean that some people use that term as a slur, an insult.
Also, me explaing this does not mean that I claim to understand the struggles of obese people as they do, living with or struggling with obesity, however you want to phrase that.
That would be rather presumptuous of me, now wouldn’t it?
I again have no clue how you were able to read ‘I can relate to the struggles of a person with NPD’ out of what I wrote.
I never said that, I never said anything like that.
Well… ok.
I kinda maybe just lied a little bit there, with that slightly imprecise, casual phrasing.
With this latest response of yours… I’m pretty sure I know how you heard something completely different than what I said, how you invented a different meaning that doesn’t exist in the text I wrote, how you managed to find a way to be personally offended and attacked.
You are a narcissist, you have NPD.
You’ve found a way to make my pithy quip about my own trauma into your trauma, actually.
You’ve managed to invent, and then try to reframe this whole discussion about you.
You’ve popped in to let everyone know that your feelings have been hurt, and that I’m a bad person who uses bad words like a bad person who hates Jews.
This is perhaps the most classic narcissist behavior, immediately recognizable to anyone who has ever known a narcissist: The ability (need? unstoppable compulsion?) to insert yourself into essentially any situation, proclaim “I’m the victim, actually”, and then character assasinate basically anyone, for any reason, in any way.
I don’t think that me saying any of this is going to change your mind.
I also don’t care how you feel, because for you, feelings are a fluid, morphing weapon; you’ll either have or claim to have, at any given moment, whatever feelings which are in your estimation, optimal to convey either that you are genuinely aggrieved, or that your target is truly heinous.
I don’t care if you can or cannot control your reflexive weaponization of your feelings, your delusional reflexive interpretation of anything anyone says as either a personal insult against you, or not sufficiently adulatory, supplicatory.
I am writing this reply, after which I am blocking you, so that others may be able to see this conversation, to see what narcissism is, how it works, and why people like me, who had their formative years shaped by people like you, why people like me have CPTSD and trust issues.
So, again, kindly fuck off with your bullshit.
Toodle-oo!