To build off of this, the best thing an average (American) Jane/Joe can do is pile money into their 401k and when they switch jobs move the money from the 401k into a (Roth)IRA
Individual investors can basically never beat the market no matter how smart they are nor how many hours the pile into their research. Best to just pile the money into diversified fund containing a solid mix of stock indices and bonds. If you want to be extra smart, deposit more while the market is down/super unstable so you can ride the wave up when the market grows again.
There’s generally advise to not invest if you have high interest debt and to instead pile your spare cash into paying that down. My personal opinion is that if you’re someone who has a consistent revolving balance of debt just start shoving spare cash into a retirement account (and don’t touch it!) because that can at least build up while you slowly get your debts under control and while maybe you won’t pay off your debt as quickly, at least you have something already saved and compounding 10 years from now once everything is stabilized and paid off
Probably best to start contributing to an IRA after exhausting the employer match on a 401k. You have more flexibility with it and don’t have to worry about later rollovers. If you can max that out, then go back to the 401k until that is maxed, but most people aren’t able to do both each year.
Here’s a flowchart of the best order to spend money from one of the financial subreddits. The best yields are on the earlier investment types each year, so if you are reading this please try to save at least a little regularly. It will save you so much later on. If you don’t know what to invest in, historically an index fund like SPY or Vanguard will get you good returns with lower variance than individual stocks and doesn’t need to be closely managed. A 401k will have more limited options but I would still try to look for a wide market index fund.
This is good advice but far more technical than I was trying to give. I was trying to give very easily actionable advice for the average person who doesn’t know much about personal finance and may not be a numbers person like I and maybe you are. The kind of person I was aiming for isn’t going to be contributing more than 10% of their income to retirement and probably has a couple of car loans and some credit card debt and/or personal loans floating around that they should sort out but might not ever get fully sorted.
If they’ve worked jobs with 401k retirement accounts but don’t work there anymore, they should go to the bank and ask about meeting a retirement advisor to roll that into a IRA or similar and probably make a small monthly contribution to their IRA as well as their current job’s 401k retirement account. That’s the gist of my advice. If they want to actually put in the work to learning more about personal finance and fully take the reigns your above flow chart is brilliant, but I think that’s far more complex than who my advice was aimed at.
If the debt grows faster than your investment I don’t see how squirreling away some money is smart. The amount your investment “builds up” will be less than the amount it will have saved you if you paid off your debt.
This advice is intended for people with more money than sense who are going to spend their way into debt no matter how much they have, and who will only cut down on spending when they’re in the red.
Exactly! Some folks simply do not have the financial discipline/knowledge to fully pay off their loans, and for them if they waited until their loans are paid off they’d never have a retirement savings. If they start squirreling away money now they have more options in 10-20 years than they would in 10-20 years without it
Personally I’d spend less energy avoiding spending my way into further debt than I would dealing with the stress of being in all that debt, but everyone’s different on the inside.
Yeah, they probably meant just a regular rollover 401k. I have both a rollover and a Roth, because one is from previous employment and the other is what I contribute to biweekly
If I’m remembering correctly IRA is pre-tax money and rothIRA is post-tax money, and you can do a Roth conversion on a traditional IRA if desired, pay the income taxes now then have no income tax to pay on it when you pull out at retirement and it’s gained quite a bit through compound interest
Edit to add: I mentioned rolling 401ks into a rothIRA or IRA because I see it as incredibly risky to leave your retirement in a 401k account controlled by a previous employer. Employers get to choose what financial institution holds the 401k funds, as well as manages employee and former employee access, so they could choose to cut costs and transfer the 401k funds to an institution with higher account fees for you for example. Also many 401ks when you depart an employer get automatically converted into IRAs and may be converted into an IRA populated purely with low return CDs/bonds and high fees (one of mine did exactly that actually!) so rolling it into a (roth)IRA with a financial institution you trust and can control the trajectory of those funds is both safer and financially smarter! I’ve even heard of folks having their entire 401k drained by fees from the IRA it got automatically rolled into when they left the organization
yes Roth is not free you pay taxes when you convert as income vs paying taxes later after you retire for traditional 401k typically most people take far less income in retirement so you tend to be in a lower bracket than your earning years so deferring tax makes sense but nobody can tell you for certain how much taxes will be in the future or how productive the markets will be so ultimately it’s all a guessing game
To build off of this, the best thing an average (American) Jane/Joe can do is pile money into their 401k and when they switch jobs move the money from the 401k into a (Roth)IRA
Individual investors can basically never beat the market no matter how smart they are nor how many hours the pile into their research. Best to just pile the money into diversified fund containing a solid mix of stock indices and bonds. If you want to be extra smart, deposit more while the market is down/super unstable so you can ride the wave up when the market grows again.
There’s generally advise to not invest if you have high interest debt and to instead pile your spare cash into paying that down. My personal opinion is that if you’re someone who has a consistent revolving balance of debt just start shoving spare cash into a retirement account (and don’t touch it!) because that can at least build up while you slowly get your debts under control and while maybe you won’t pay off your debt as quickly, at least you have something already saved and compounding 10 years from now once everything is stabilized and paid off
Probably best to start contributing to an IRA after exhausting the employer match on a 401k. You have more flexibility with it and don’t have to worry about later rollovers. If you can max that out, then go back to the 401k until that is maxed, but most people aren’t able to do both each year.
Here’s a flowchart of the best order to spend money from one of the financial subreddits. The best yields are on the earlier investment types each year, so if you are reading this please try to save at least a little regularly. It will save you so much later on. If you don’t know what to invest in, historically an index fund like SPY or Vanguard will get you good returns with lower variance than individual stocks and doesn’t need to be closely managed. A 401k will have more limited options but I would still try to look for a wide market index fund.
This is good advice but far more technical than I was trying to give. I was trying to give very easily actionable advice for the average person who doesn’t know much about personal finance and may not be a numbers person like I and maybe you are. The kind of person I was aiming for isn’t going to be contributing more than 10% of their income to retirement and probably has a couple of car loans and some credit card debt and/or personal loans floating around that they should sort out but might not ever get fully sorted.
If they’ve worked jobs with 401k retirement accounts but don’t work there anymore, they should go to the bank and ask about meeting a retirement advisor to roll that into a IRA or similar and probably make a small monthly contribution to their IRA as well as their current job’s 401k retirement account. That’s the gist of my advice. If they want to actually put in the work to learning more about personal finance and fully take the reigns your above flow chart is brilliant, but I think that’s far more complex than who my advice was aimed at.
If the debt grows faster than your investment I don’t see how squirreling away some money is smart. The amount your investment “builds up” will be less than the amount it will have saved you if you paid off your debt.
This advice is intended for people with more money than sense who are going to spend their way into debt no matter how much they have, and who will only cut down on spending when they’re in the red.
Exactly! Some folks simply do not have the financial discipline/knowledge to fully pay off their loans, and for them if they waited until their loans are paid off they’d never have a retirement savings. If they start squirreling away money now they have more options in 10-20 years than they would in 10-20 years without it
Personally I’d spend less energy avoiding spending my way into further debt than I would dealing with the stress of being in all that debt, but everyone’s different on the inside.
Don’t you have to pay taxes on the 401k balance that you transfer to the Roth?
Yeah, they probably meant just a regular rollover 401k. I have both a rollover and a Roth, because one is from previous employment and the other is what I contribute to biweekly
If I’m remembering correctly IRA is pre-tax money and rothIRA is post-tax money, and you can do a Roth conversion on a traditional IRA if desired, pay the income taxes now then have no income tax to pay on it when you pull out at retirement and it’s gained quite a bit through compound interest
Edit to add: I mentioned rolling 401ks into a rothIRA or IRA because I see it as incredibly risky to leave your retirement in a 401k account controlled by a previous employer. Employers get to choose what financial institution holds the 401k funds, as well as manages employee and former employee access, so they could choose to cut costs and transfer the 401k funds to an institution with higher account fees for you for example. Also many 401ks when you depart an employer get automatically converted into IRAs and may be converted into an IRA populated purely with low return CDs/bonds and high fees (one of mine did exactly that actually!) so rolling it into a (roth)IRA with a financial institution you trust and can control the trajectory of those funds is both safer and financially smarter! I’ve even heard of folks having their entire 401k drained by fees from the IRA it got automatically rolled into when they left the organization
yes Roth is not free you pay taxes when you convert as income vs paying taxes later after you retire for traditional 401k typically most people take far less income in retirement so you tend to be in a lower bracket than your earning years so deferring tax makes sense but nobody can tell you for certain how much taxes will be in the future or how productive the markets will be so ultimately it’s all a guessing game