I damn nearly got murdered by an angry speeding cyclist in Paris, near a canal. I crossed the lane without realizing, not being used to their presence. Bike lanes are simply nonexistent where I live, and I was only staying in Paris for a couple weeks. The dude got super mad at me, like super super mad. To this day I still fantasize about throwing him and his fucking bike in the canal. I really should have done it… why do I have to second-guess everything
Learn how to cry on command. That would probably have taken the wind out of his sails. I’m not a car freak. If I could get by in my suburban hell without one I would. That being said, if cars have to be aware of cyclists then cyclists need to be aware of pedestrians.
So if a pedestrian walked onto the road without looking or anything, you’d say the driver is at fault?
A cycle lane is to a bike as a road is to a car. A pedestrian is allowed to cross it after looking and checking that no vehicle is coming, and the pedestrian has to give right of way.
Cars have to be aware of cyclists when cyclists are driving on the road, since both have equal rights to be there. Same as a car has to be aware of another car or a cyclists of another cyclist. Both are allowed to use the road, so both need to be aware of each other.
If a car driver is expected to be aware of pedestrians, then a cyclist is to be expected to be aware of pedestrians. You can’t have it both ways. A cyclist can easily cause serious injury to a pedestrian.
To be honest, it’s a wrong argument anyways. The cyclist was aware of the pedestrian on the bike lane and he stopped in time. So the whole argument doesn’t matter.
The actual point is whether the pedestrian was in the right to wander onto the bike lane, completely oblivious to his surroundings.
They were both in the wrong. The cyclist shouldn’t be entitled to being an asshole because they’re inconvenienced, and the pedestrian doesn’t get to wander in the bike lane unaware of their surroundings.
It’s by momentum. The greater the momentum the greater the responsibility.
Edit: To actually respond to your examples:
No. It is the responsibility of the high mv cars not to enter the sidewalk, or to be incredibly cautious if they must.
Yes. It is the responsibility of the high mv car to look far enough ahead to respond to low mv (or rather high delay v) obstacles ahead. If this sounds impractical, the design of highways and the illegality of a pedestrian entering one makes unavoidable incidents of car-hitting-pedestrian-on-highway low enough to be practical.
Ok, let’s put it differently: In the story we are talking about
A cyclist was aware of the pedestrian walking on the cycling lane
A pedestrian was unaware of the fact that he was on the biking lane
The cyclist managed to stop safely before the pedestrian
The cyclist got angry for the pedestrian not caring about whether he was allowed to walk where he did
The pedestrian felt so justified in walking on the cycling lane that he considered throwing the bike off the river
So what’s your point? The cyclist shouldn’t have gotten angry and should have just been fine and dandy with the pedestrian walking on the cycling lane?
The equivalent would be a pedestrian walking on the road, and then drivers should be just fine with that. They aren’t and neither should they be.
If a driver shouldn’t need to be happy with a pedestrian wandering around on the road completely unaware of his surroundings, why should a cyclist be ok with the same circumstances?
That’s what the law says in France, at least. People are supposed to cross on crosswalks, but if they don’t and a car hits them the driver is at fault regardless. I can try to find a source in english if that’s important to you.
Anyway, context is king here and what I didn’t specify in my post above is that the space where it happened was quite crowded and ambiguous (especially for an alien like me who had seldom seen a bike lane at the time)
The whole concept of “being at fault” only applies to accidents. If you see someone breaking the law (e.g. walking across the road where it’s not allowed) and you then purposely ram them with your vehicle, then it’s not an accident and of course you are at fault then. If someone else breaks the law you would have to be an utter idiot to think that this gives you the right to legally murder that person.
I repeat: you’d have to be seriously braindead and messed up to belive that you can legally kill someone over a minor traffic violation.
If it’s an actual accident though, e.g. if the pedestrian darts out between parked cars so fast that the driver can’t stop in time, then it’s clearly the pedestrian’s fault (even in France) and the driver will not get in trouble.
Again, all of that is super basic.
A bike lane is not ambiguous. If you don’t inform yourself of laws and customs in a country you travel to, then it’s still your fault if you are too ignorant to understand basic traffic situations, and neither does ignorance excuse you from following the law nor does it make your wrong actions and lawbreaking right, nor does it give you any moral high ground.
Yea, exactly my point. I’m not denying that I should have been aware of the presence of the bike lane but it falls on the guy on a vehicle to be acutely aware of his surroundings and wary of potential collisions. I say this as a driver and a bicycler
Let me get this straight: You walked into a bicycle path because you weren’t aware of your surroundings. The bicycle stopped because the cyclist was aware of their surroundings.
Getting reamed out in public must have sucked, and was probably overkill. But this sounds like someone safely avoided an accident when you made a mistake.
I say this as a cyclist who uses my Big Girl voice on dedicated bike paths and someone who’s accidentally walked onto a bike path.
When I first started cycling in a heavy bike-commuter city I got yelled at, a lot, because there isn’t a lot of public education on safely navigating bike lanes. Embarassing, yeah, but I learned fast.
If it was a cycle path, then you are allowed to cross it on foot, but you aren’t allowed to walk on it.
If you blindly wandered onto a road and a driver got angry because he almost hit you because of that, would you also believe you had the right to throw his car off a bridge?
Neither (or both?), it was an overcrowded walkable canal bank in the height of summer with faint paint marks to delimit the path of the bike “lane”. I was in the wrong in any case, what I’m complaining about is the dude’s reaction. My point is you have to be able to share the space and safely navigate what is inevitably going to be a crowded area at that time of year, especially when riding a bicycle which can be dangerous in its own right.
I mean, honest mistake on your part, but still your mistake. Dude shouldn’t have raged at you for an honest mistake, but you should rage at them even less, as they didn’t even do anything wrong (except raging).
You’d be a somewhat justified if it happened in a pedestrian only zone or sidewalk, as it frequently does in my city but you were the one in the wrong area.
I damn nearly got murdered by an angry speeding cyclist in Paris, near a canal. I crossed the lane without realizing, not being used to their presence. Bike lanes are simply nonexistent where I live, and I was only staying in Paris for a couple weeks. The dude got super mad at me, like super super mad. To this day I still fantasize about throwing him and his fucking bike in the canal. I really should have done it… why do I have to second-guess everything
Learn how to cry on command. That would probably have taken the wind out of his sails. I’m not a car freak. If I could get by in my suburban hell without one I would. That being said, if cars have to be aware of cyclists then cyclists need to be aware of pedestrians.
So if a pedestrian walked onto the road without looking or anything, you’d say the driver is at fault?
A cycle lane is to a bike as a road is to a car. A pedestrian is allowed to cross it after looking and checking that no vehicle is coming, and the pedestrian has to give right of way.
Cars have to be aware of cyclists when cyclists are driving on the road, since both have equal rights to be there. Same as a car has to be aware of another car or a cyclists of another cyclist. Both are allowed to use the road, so both need to be aware of each other.
If a car driver is expected to be aware of pedestrians, then a cyclist is to be expected to be aware of pedestrians. You can’t have it both ways. A cyclist can easily cause serious injury to a pedestrian.
Is a pedestrian expected to be aware of car drivers on the side walk?
Is a car driver expected to be aware of pedestrians on the highway?
Yes, and also yes. personal responsibility for your own safety doesn’t magically disappear because of paint on the ground.
Responsibility for the machine you’re operating that can harm others doesn’t magically disappear when it weighs less.
To be honest, it’s a wrong argument anyways. The cyclist was aware of the pedestrian on the bike lane and he stopped in time. So the whole argument doesn’t matter.
The actual point is whether the pedestrian was in the right to wander onto the bike lane, completely oblivious to his surroundings.
They were both in the wrong. The cyclist shouldn’t be entitled to being an asshole because they’re inconvenienced, and the pedestrian doesn’t get to wander in the bike lane unaware of their surroundings.
It’s by momentum. The greater the momentum the greater the responsibility.
Edit: To actually respond to your examples:
No. It is the responsibility of the high mv cars not to enter the sidewalk, or to be incredibly cautious if they must.
Yes. It is the responsibility of the high mv car to look far enough ahead to respond to low mv (or rather high delay v) obstacles ahead. If this sounds impractical, the design of highways and the illegality of a pedestrian entering one makes unavoidable incidents of car-hitting-pedestrian-on-highway low enough to be practical.
Ok, let’s put it differently: In the story we are talking about
So what’s your point? The cyclist shouldn’t have gotten angry and should have just been fine and dandy with the pedestrian walking on the cycling lane?
The equivalent would be a pedestrian walking on the road, and then drivers should be just fine with that. They aren’t and neither should they be.
If a driver shouldn’t need to be happy with a pedestrian wandering around on the road completely unaware of his surroundings, why should a cyclist be ok with the same circumstances?
You can’t have it both ways.
You fail to recognize that everyone can be wrong at the same time.
That’s what the law says in France, at least. People are supposed to cross on crosswalks, but if they don’t and a car hits them the driver is at fault regardless. I can try to find a source in english if that’s important to you.
Anyway, context is king here and what I didn’t specify in my post above is that the space where it happened was quite crowded and ambiguous (especially for an alien like me who had seldom seen a bike lane at the time)
The whole concept of “being at fault” only applies to accidents. If you see someone breaking the law (e.g. walking across the road where it’s not allowed) and you then purposely ram them with your vehicle, then it’s not an accident and of course you are at fault then. If someone else breaks the law you would have to be an utter idiot to think that this gives you the right to legally murder that person.
I repeat: you’d have to be seriously braindead and messed up to belive that you can legally kill someone over a minor traffic violation.
If it’s an actual accident though, e.g. if the pedestrian darts out between parked cars so fast that the driver can’t stop in time, then it’s clearly the pedestrian’s fault (even in France) and the driver will not get in trouble.
Again, all of that is super basic.
A bike lane is not ambiguous. If you don’t inform yourself of laws and customs in a country you travel to, then it’s still your fault if you are too ignorant to understand basic traffic situations, and neither does ignorance excuse you from following the law nor does it make your wrong actions and lawbreaking right, nor does it give you any moral high ground.
Yea, exactly my point. I’m not denying that I should have been aware of the presence of the bike lane but it falls on the guy on a vehicle to be acutely aware of his surroundings and wary of potential collisions. I say this as a driver and a bicycler
Let me get this straight: You walked into a bicycle path because you weren’t aware of your surroundings. The bicycle stopped because the cyclist was aware of their surroundings.
Getting reamed out in public must have sucked, and was probably overkill. But this sounds like someone safely avoided an accident when you made a mistake.
I say this as a cyclist who uses my Big Girl voice on dedicated bike paths and someone who’s accidentally walked onto a bike path.
When I first started cycling in a heavy bike-commuter city I got yelled at, a lot, because there isn’t a lot of public education on safely navigating bike lanes. Embarassing, yeah, but I learned fast.
No no I was on foot
Was it a cycle path or a foot path?
If it was a cycle path, then you are allowed to cross it on foot, but you aren’t allowed to walk on it.
If you blindly wandered onto a road and a driver got angry because he almost hit you because of that, would you also believe you had the right to throw his car off a bridge?
Neither (or both?), it was an overcrowded walkable canal bank in the height of summer with faint paint marks to delimit the path of the bike “lane”. I was in the wrong in any case, what I’m complaining about is the dude’s reaction. My point is you have to be able to share the space and safely navigate what is inevitably going to be a crowded area at that time of year, especially when riding a bicycle which can be dangerous in its own right.
So it was a bike lane that you were on. Being to dumb to understand what a bike lane is and that a bike lane is for, you know, bikes is not an excuse.
You complain about that dude’s reaction but wanted to commit theft/vandalism and think you are justified in that?
You are the idiot who actively made riding a bike dangerous in that situation and still believe you are justified?
Let me guess, you are American?
You’re still part of traffic when you’re on foot. And yes, it was 100% your fault and the cyclist was right to be pissed.
If you walk onto a freeway, on foot, you are being reckless. It’s the same for bike lanes. Look where you walk.
That literally doesn’t change what he said.
I mean, honest mistake on your part, but still your mistake. Dude shouldn’t have raged at you for an honest mistake, but you should rage at them even less, as they didn’t even do anything wrong (except raging).
You’d be a somewhat justified if it happened in a pedestrian only zone or sidewalk, as it frequently does in my city but you were the one in the wrong area.
If the cyclist is anything like me, he was super mad because he almost killed the other guy.